Re: [MMM] big bad fifths (the better to hear you with)

Hi Jeff,

> > closed only by a wolf fifth so big NOBODY would
> > recognise it as a fifth
>
> For those just joining us, we're talking about
> the wolf fifth at 758.286 cents.

It's an odd thing, I had sent my meantone instructions to a very
nice retired college professor who specializes in such things a
while ago, and he basically liked them but had a few criticisms.
One of them was that I had said something about how the modern
ET out-of-tune major thirds would have been offensive to the
Renaissance ear, and he said "We don't know that, just say they're
out of tune, don't do pop psych on dead people!" or words to that
effect. I thought about it and agreed. but his other criticism was
that in my instructions I ended with check triads on c, d, e flat etc.
to make sure they are all good, and then check chords on a flat, d
flat etc. to make sure they sound terrible. And he said don't tell
them that, if the others are good they did it right. And well, I myself
love those chords, so I left it in. I love finishing a tuning with an
audience collecting, saying 'Well, I'm done' and then playibg a
grand D flat major chord, sounding, well, really out-of-tune -- and
then of course grandly resolving it to D....

But I suppose I should replace the phrase 'sound terrible' with
some circumlocution like 'Sound quite out-of-tune to conventional
ears'.

> I think you would have enjoyed the discussion on acceptable
> fifths we had in this group a while back.

I'll check the archives sometime, thanks for the pointer.

Judy

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., judithconrad@m... wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> > > closed only by a wolf fifth so big NOBODY would
> > > recognise it as a fifth
> >
> > For those just joining us, we're talking about
> > the wolf fifth at 758.286 cents.
>
> It's an odd thing, I had sent my meantone instructions to a very
> nice retired college professor who specializes in such things a
> while ago, and he basically liked them but had a few criticisms.
> One of them was that I had said something about how the modern
> ET out-of-tune major thirds would have been offensive to the
> Renaissance ear, and he said "We don't know that, just say they're
> out of tune, don't do pop psych on dead people!" or words to that
> effect. I thought about it and agreed.

actually there's a considerable amount of literature in the early
18th century where you can see the assessment of such wide major
thirds move from unacceptable to acceptable over about a generation
or so. there's also plenty of accounts from before the 18th century
where 400-cent major thirds on harpsichords are considered
unacceptable. it's clear that tastes did change.