Art Ownership in Balinese Culture

Jon!!

> Need a culture be primitive to exhibit these tendencies? I
> think not.

No of course not, as I said the highly technologically
advanced Soviet and Chinese cultures were the first I
could think of where I knew the nonindividuation of art
to be an operative philosophy.

> But in general, and while the "sharing" may not be either
> all-pervasive or all-encompassing as Monz might speculate,
> how about Bali? I've always been impressed (and I'm far from
> deeply knowledgeable) about how the performance arts of
> music, dance, costume, etc. are so completely woven into the
> fabric of the community. Yes, there are differing styles, and
> certainly different 'compositions', but it is much more of a
> community-wide endeavor then the composer -> performer ->
> audience scenario we have in the West.

Oh how WONDERFUL Jon! I am so glad you brought up Bali.
Have you been to Indonesia? How much gamelan experience
do you have? And how many Balinese composers have you
been long term friends with? What have they said to you
about these ideas while you were discussing the matter
while having baby octopuses for breakfast at their
home?

> Also, the involvement of entire neighborhoods and 'clans' of
> people in the samba festivals in Brazil certainly must point
> so some of the larger, group-nature of creating an artistic
> environment.

Yes, and these sorts of events where people improvise
and play traditional music are never seen in the US or
Europe of course.

> All of these go well beyond a mere 'composition of music',
> but I think it is fine if we can think a little outside the
> bollocks...

bollocks?

- Jeff

Jeff,

{you wrote...}
> > But in general, and while the "sharing" may not be either
> > all-pervasive or all-encompassing as Monz might speculate,
> > how about Bali? I've always been impressed about how the performance > arts of
> > music, dance, costume, etc. are so completely woven into the
> > fabric of the community. Yes, there are differing styles, and
> > certainly different 'compositions', but it is much more of a
> > community-wide endeavor then the composer -> performer ->
> > audience scenario we have in the West.
>
>Oh how WONDERFUL Jon! I am so glad you brought up Bali.

Thanks, it is one of my favorite music/dance/etc art worlds...

>Have you been to Indonesia? How much gamelan experience
>do you have? And how many Balinese composers have you
>been long term friends with? What have they said to you
>about these ideas while you were discussing the matter
>while having baby octopuses for breakfast at their
>home?

Hey, I did say:

>(and I'm far from deeply knowledgeable)

What do you want? I played in a gamelan for two years here in San Diego, I've read a bit, listened a lot, and one of my closest friends (Danlee Mitchell) has spent the past two summers in Bali and Java. Being not only a dedicated teacher but someone dedicated to... 'documentation', he has hours and hours of video he shot, quite a bit of which I've seen, including a couple of trance dances (I forget the actual name) where the dancers rode 'horses' (that reminded me of "hobby horses" from my childhood), became intoxicated by their physical efforts and also eating a local plant, and ended up chewing on glass.

Along with talking with the gamelan teacher, who was also on faculty at Cal Arts, I only have passing knowledge of the actual acts of composition, but it has been my understanding that if nothing else, the art of performance in gamelan and dance in Bali is very communal. Something that I wish was more the case in our culture.

> > All of these go well beyond a mere 'composition of music',
> > but I think it is fine if we can think a little outside the
> > bollocks...
>
>bollocks?

Desperately looking for another word that rhymes with "box". Probably doesn't fit, grammatically:

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/frames.htm

Cheers,
Jon

Jon!
I think groups are given credit for compositions in the same way we
see credits like Music by the doors, especially when it is a group
effort. Cardew and The Scratch Orchestra is probably one of the more
successful attempts at communal music making. The fountainhead of so
much British New music
that is ignored by academia yet fills 70% of your experimental sections
in records stores.

"Jonathan M. Szanto" wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> {you wrote...}
> > > But in general, and while the "sharing" may not be either
> > > all-pervasive or all-encompassing as Monz might speculate,
> > > how about Bali? I've always been impressed about how the
> performance
> > arts of
> > > music, dance, costume, etc. are so completely woven into the
> > > fabric of the community. Yes, there are differing styles, and
> > > certainly different 'compositions', but it is much more of a
> > > community-wide endeavor then the composer -> performer ->
> > > audience scenario we have in the West.
> >
> >Oh how WONDERFUL Jon! I am so glad you brought up Bali.
>
> Thanks, it is one of my favorite music/dance/etc art worlds...
>
> >Have you been to Indonesia? How much gamelan experience
> >do you have? And how many Balinese composers have you
> >been long term friends with? What have they said to you
> >about these ideas while you were discussing the matter
> >while having baby octopuses for breakfast at their
> >home?
>
> Hey, I did say:
>
> >(and I'm far from deeply knowledgeable)
>
> What do you want? I played in a gamelan for two years here in San
> Diego,
> I've read a bit, listened a lot, and one of my closest friends (Danlee
>
> Mitchell) has spent the past two summers in Bali and Java. Being not
> only a
> dedicated teacher but someone dedicated to... 'documentation', he has
> hours
> and hours of video he shot, quite a bit of which I've seen, including
> a
> couple of trance dances (I forget the actual name) where the dancers
> rode
> 'horses' (that reminded me of "hobby horses" from my childhood),
> became
> intoxicated by their physical efforts and also eating a local plant,
> and
> ended up chewing on glass.
>
> Along with talking with the gamelan teacher, who was also on faculty
> at Cal
> Arts, I only have passing knowledge of the actual acts of composition,
> but
> it has been my understanding that if nothing else, the art of
> performance
> in gamelan and dance in Bali is very communal. Something that I wish
> was
> more the case in our culture.
>
> > > All of these go well beyond a mere 'composition of music',
> > > but I think it is fine if we can think a little outside the
> > > bollocks...
> >
> >bollocks?
>
> Desperately looking for another word that rhymes with "box". Probably
> doesn't fit, grammatically:
>
> http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/frames.htm
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

I think it is sort of humourous to watch this discussion of plundering
get
really over-academic. Especially the part about Public Enemy. Kudos for
knowing
a rap act. But c'mon... Public Enemy? That's sort of... old.

Granted, they sampled just about everything in sight, and were some of
the
greatest ever (in my opinion), but today, there are a lot of people
going a lot
further with the idea. Try Kid Koala, or Christian Marclay. Very nice
stuff. How
about DJ Smallcock? Also interesting.

In my mind, sampling (or musical quoting, if you wish) is going to last,
because
people are going to see that it is something that expands musical
possibilites.
Anything that does this generally lasts.

DaveX