Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic three little pieces

https://www.box.com/s/ejlufvzvehe58wz2xyji
title: Starting and Stopping
Just under 4 minutes. .Aif file. can be downloaded. A self-similar composition attempt.

https://www.box.com/s/yh2qc7va87jn32fu80of
title: Susan #1 Wept
A little groping microtonal improv.

https://www.box.com/s/mokoiun3cr2jmrqm507q
title: NSG Emerge. (Not So Good).
Another little groping microtonal improv.

How to put it? I'm posting this stuff just to show that I'm still alive, still sort of trying.

The "Starting and Stopping" piece is pretty tight, but it's so close to 12-tone (being in my usual 87EDO scale) that it hardly qualifies as un12. The other two are in the same tuning -- and do sound microtonal -- but are not worth checking out unless you have lots of time.

I've been working on a big project that relates to some of this material, but the project is starting to feel like such a burden that I'm wondering if I should just cut my losses and wrap it up and start again. and again. and again. etc.

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

Hi Caleb,

Well, I got to say I enjoyed Starting and Stopping a lot. It has a bizarre
and scary mood to it for me. Susan didn't make mush of an impression but
NSG sounds very contemporary classical and I like that a lot.

My suggestion is whatever you are working on - don't give up!

Chris

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:41 PM, calebmrgn <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> https://www.box.com/s/ejlufvzvehe58wz2xyji
> title: Starting and Stopping
> Just under 4 minutes. .Aif file. can be downloaded. A self-similar
> composition attempt.
>
> https://www.box.com/s/yh2qc7va87jn32fu80of
> title: Susan #1 Wept
> A little groping microtonal improv.
>
> https://www.box.com/s/mokoiun3cr2jmrqm507q
> title: NSG Emerge. (Not So Good).
> Another little groping microtonal improv.
>
> How to put it? I'm posting this stuff just to show that I'm still alive,
> still sort of trying.
>
> The "Starting and Stopping" piece is pretty tight, but it's so close to
> 12-tone (being in my usual 87EDO scale) that it hardly qualifies as un12.
> The other two are in the same tuning -- and do sound microtonal -- but are
> not worth checking out unless you have lots of time.
>
> I've been working on a big project that relates to some of this material,
> but the project is starting to feel like such a burden that I'm wondering
> if I should just cut my losses and wrap it up and start again. and again.
> and again. etc.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

Good comments. That helps. Thanks

________________________________
From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] three little pieces

Hi Caleb,

My suggestion is whatever you are working on - don't give up!

Chris

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:41 PM, calebmrgn <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kalle Aho <kalleaho@...>

All of these sound really good, the last two ones are too short though.

Kalle Aho

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "calebmrgn" <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
> https://www.box.com/s/ejlufvzvehe58wz2xyji
> title: Starting and Stopping
> Just under 4 minutes. .Aif file. can be downloaded. A self-similar composition attempt.
>
> https://www.box.com/s/yh2qc7va87jn32fu80of
> title: Susan #1 Wept
> A little groping microtonal improv.
>
> https://www.box.com/s/mokoiun3cr2jmrqm507q
> title: NSG Emerge. (Not So Good).
> Another little groping microtonal improv.
>
>
> How to put it? I'm posting this stuff just to show that I'm still alive, still sort of trying.
>
> The "Starting and Stopping" piece is pretty tight, but it's so close to 12-tone (being in my usual 87EDO scale) that it hardly qualifies as un12. The other two are in the same tuning -- and do sound microtonal -- but are not worth checking out unless you have lots of time.
>
> I've been working on a big project that relates to some of this material, but the project is starting to feel like such a burden that I'm wondering if I should just cut my losses and wrap it up and start again. and again. and again. etc.
>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

Thanks. Having felt discouraged because I was procrastinating, avoiding working too much, I realized it was because I was trying to do something too hard for my poor little brain. So I was avoiding it.

I've decided to divide my work into *either* microtonal OR series-based/self-similar. But not both in the same composition.

I hope and expect that this will increase my productivity. Trying to make microtonal music out of 12-tone-based ideas (and vice-versa) hasn't been working for me.

The only composer I can think of who does that is Ben Johnston.

If someone here can link me up to the work of other composers who combine serial ideas with JI, I'd be interested to see if others have succeeded where I've decided -- now -- not to keep trying.

My ideas seem to be microtonal OR serial, but never both at once.
It feels like I was trying to force something that didn't want to go together.

Realizing that seems to give me hope, so I don't really want to change my mind. The important thing is to have some strategy, even if it's arbitrary.

But I would be open to checking out other work to see if I like it.

________________________________
From: Kalle Aho <kalleaho@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:04 PM
Subject: [MMM] Re: three little pieces

All of these sound really good, the last two ones are too short though.

Kalle Aho

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

I'm not as famous as Ben Johnston. Nonetheless here is my serial just
intonation piece with animated score.

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=838

Chris

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thanks. Having felt discouraged because I was procrastinating, avoiding
> working too much, I realized it was because I was trying to do something
> too hard for my poor little brain. So I was avoiding it.
>
> I've decided to divide my work into *either* microtonal OR
> series-based/self-similar. But not both in the same composition.
>
> I hope and expect that this will increase my productivity. Trying to make
> microtonal music out of 12-tone-based ideas (and vice-versa) hasn't been
> working for me.
>
> The only composer I can think of who does that is Ben Johnston.
>
> If someone here can link me up to the work of other composers who combine
> serial ideas with JI, I'd be interested to see if others have succeeded
> where I've decided -- now -- not to keep trying.
>
> My ideas seem to be microtonal OR serial, but never both at once.
> It feels like I was trying to force something that didn't want to go
> together.
>
> Realizing that seems to give me hope, so I don't really want to change my
> mind. The important thing is to have some strategy, even if it's arbitrary.
>
> But I would be open to checking out other work to see if I like it.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Kalle Aho <kalleaho@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:04 PM
> Subject: [MMM] Re: three little pieces
>
>
>
>
> All of these sound really good, the last two ones are too short though.
>
> Kalle Aho
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "calebmrgn" <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
> >
> > https://www.box.com/s/ejlufvzvehe58wz2xyji
> > title: Starting and Stopping
> > Just under 4 minutes. .Aif file. can be downloaded. A self-similar
> composition attempt.
> >
> > https://www.box.com/s/yh2qc7va87jn32fu80of
> > title: Susan #1 Wept
> > A little groping microtonal improv.
> >
> > https://www.box.com/s/mokoiun3cr2jmrqm507q
> > title: NSG Emerge. (Not So Good).
> > Another little groping microtonal improv.
> >
> >
> > How to put it? I'm posting this stuff just to show that I'm still alive,
> still sort of trying.
> >
> > The "Starting and Stopping" piece is pretty tight, but it's so close to
> 12-tone (being in my usual 87EDO scale) that it hardly qualifies as un12.
> The other two are in the same tuning -- and do sound microtonal -- but are
> not worth checking out unless you have lots of time.
> >
> > I've been working on a big project that relates to some of this
> material, but the project is starting to feel like such a burden that I'm
> wondering if I should just cut my losses and wrap it up and start again.
> and again. and again. etc.
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

Thanks, Chris! This is exactly what I was looking for: Not "Oh, Caleb, if you weren't ignorant you would know how to solve this."

But rather, "Here's what I've done, and why."

Plus, some other names. Perfect response.

Figures, Chris that you'd have an example of your own-- you've probably composed at least one example of any given kind of piece!

(Your productivity is enviable)

What's important for now is not whether I'm attracted to writing something exactly like this myself, but simply to hear what other people have been doing along these lines.

One thing your piece here is *not* doing is dwelling on prominent JI consonances, right? And the triad in measure 10, for example, is farther away from 3:4:5 purity than 12EDO would be?

The non 12EDO tuning gives those quasi-4ths a different kind of sound from 12EDO 4ths.

I like reading what you wrote in explanation.

-c

________________________________
From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@gmail.com>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: three little pieces

I'm not as famous as Ben Johnston. Nonetheless here is my serial just
intonation piece with animated score.

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=838

Chris

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

Hi Caleb,

I'm unsure if you are asking me a question or not. Are you asking for a
deeper conversation as to why I composed what I did?

Chris

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> One thing your piece here is *not* doing is dwelling on prominent JI
> consonances, right? And the triad in measure 10, for example, is farther
> away from 3:4:5 purity than 12EDO would be?
>
> The non 12EDO tuning gives those quasi-4ths a different kind of sound from
> 12EDO 4ths.
>
> I like reading what you wrote in explanation.
>
> -c
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: three little pieces
>
>
> I'm not as famous as Ben Johnston. Nonetheless here is my serial just
> intonation piece with animated score.
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=838
>
> Chris
>
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks. Having felt discouraged because I was procrastinating, avoiding
> > working too much, I realized it was because I was trying to do something
> > too hard for my poor little brain. So I was avoiding it.
> >
> > I've decided to divide my work into *either* microtonal OR
> > series-based/self-similar. But not both in the same composition.
> >
> > I hope and expect that this will increase my productivity. Trying to
> make
> > microtonal music out of 12-tone-based ideas (and vice-versa) hasn't been
> > working for me.
> >
> > The only composer I can think of who does that is Ben Johnston.
> >
> > If someone here can link me up to the work of other composers who combine
> > serial ideas with JI, I'd be interested to see if others have succeeded
> > where I've decided -- now -- not to keep trying.
> >
> > My ideas seem to be microtonal OR serial, but never both at once.
> > It feels like I was trying to force something that didn't want to go
> > together.
> >
> > Realizing that seems to give me hope, so I don't really want to change my
> > mind. The important thing is to have some strategy, even if it's
> arbitrary.
> >
> > But I would be open to checking out other work to see if I like it.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Kalle Aho <kalleaho@...>
> > To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:04 PM
> > Subject: [MMM] Re: three little pieces
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > All of these sound really good, the last two ones are too short though.
> >
> > Kalle Aho
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "calebmrgn" <calebmrgn@...>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > https://www.box.com/s/ejlufvzvehe58wz2xyji
> > > title: Starting and Stopping
> > > Just under 4 minutes. .Aif file. can be downloaded. A self-similar
> > composition attempt.
> > >
> > > https://www.box.com/s/yh2qc7va87jn32fu80of
> > > title: Susan #1 Wept
> > > A little groping microtonal improv.
> > >
> > > https://www.box.com/s/mokoiun3cr2jmrqm507q
> > > title: NSG Emerge. (Not So Good).
> > > Another little groping microtonal improv.
> > >
> > >
> > > How to put it? I'm posting this stuff just to show that I'm still
> alive,
> > still sort of trying.
> > >
> > > The "Starting and Stopping" piece is pretty tight, but it's so close to
> > 12-tone (being in my usual 87EDO scale) that it hardly qualifies as un12.
> > The other two are in the same tuning -- and do sound microtonal -- but
> are
> > not worth checking out unless you have lots of time.
> > >
> > > I've been working on a big project that relates to some of this
> > material, but the project is starting to feel like such a burden that I'm
> > wondering if I should just cut my losses and wrap it up and start again.
> > and again. and again. etc.
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

Sorry if my intent wasn't clear.

I was thanking you for what you posted, and making some first-impression observations about the sound.

My praise is sincere. You write a lot of pieces. I wish I could do that. Really.

Since my first impressions are not always accurate, I put some of them in the form of questions, so that they could be corrected if they were wrong.

My impressions were that the tuning gave the stacks of 4ths a very different sound from what they would sound like in 12EDO, and that the triad in measure 10 sounded farther from Just than 12EDO.

These observations were value-free. Neither praise nor criticism.

Your notes were pretty clear and were a pleasure to read. It was great to have a score to follow.

If you wish to talk more about this piece, I'd be interested. But mainly, I'm just interested in surveying whatever pieces there are that happen to combine serial techniques with JI in particular, microtones in general.

Thanks again.

-c

________________________________
From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: three little pieces

Hi Caleb,

I'm unsure if you are asking me a question or not. Are you asking for a
deeper conversation as to why I composed what I did?

Chris

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

I wanted to add one other technical note before trying to really hole up and write the next (non-serial) microtonal piece.

I'm happy with this. It fits my abilities and deficits, and that I'm a Mac user. It took a while to decide on this method, so maybe someone else could benefit from the knowledge that it works. But otherwise, it's only my personal "Goldilocks" solution.

1) A 36-note 11-limit scale, either JI or an 87EDO approximation -- more pitches seems unwieldy to me, fewer not enough.

2) Sampler instruments in Logic tuned to this scale using the (now defunct, sadly) application LMSO for Mac.

3) The sampler instruments pitch-bend is set to +-12 semitones.

4) A chart is constructed doing the simple math of multiplying cents by 6.827 to get the equivalent pitch-bend number, either up, or down, whichever is preferable.

So -- for example -- to move an instrument's whole tuning-base to 8/5 in Logic, you bend it down by 2638, or up by 5555. Just type it in. Easy.

5) To prevent any glitching, have instrument copies on several tracks, so there's time for the pitch-bend to happen inaudibly.

I'm finding that this is accurate enough, easy to do, and allows for any and all effects that I could want. I stress how easy it is, once
you've made a little pitch-bend table, and taped it near your computer monitor where you can see it.

If there's any limitation on accuracy, I'm really not hearing it, as I test various moves away from 1/1. There's a little inaccuracy because of the sampled instruments, anyway. A little slow chorusing is ok, here and there. Can be minimized by choosing which samples, and simplifying the instruments.

Technically, at least, I'm a happy-enough camper.

Just showing my working method for anyone who's interested. Not interested in arguing about it or anything else.

It took a while to really settle on this way of working, and I've not found anything better for the way I think.

Heck, I may have posted this exact method a while ago and forgotten about it.

[/thread ]

________________________________
From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
To: "MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com" <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: three little pieces

...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

three little pieces

🔗calebmrgn <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Kalle Aho <kalleaho@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>