BP (or other) counterpoint?

Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?

Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.

I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
anyone have or know of any examples?

Thanks,
Jake

Hi Jake,

This is close to what you are asking for.

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=795

and this even more

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=795

I also imagine the Blackwood Etudes or perhaps
the theme and variations on Mozart that Jacob did are right on the money
with
your request.

All the best,

Chris

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
>
> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
>
> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
> anyone have or know of any examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Jake
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Chris. The motet is the kind of thing I was looking for. I'm
not sure what else you had on offer, though, because both links were
the same. :)

I bought the Microtonal Etudes a while back on someone's
recommendation (Mike B, maybe?), and while they're good, they're not
really what I'm looking for -- I'm more interested in non-meantone
tunings used for otherwise-traditional composition, especially
counterpoint. Blackwood's 15-EDO classical guitar piece from the same
album is more along the lines of what I'm looking for, actually. (If
you haven't heard that, you should. :) )

I don't know Jacob's Mozart variations, but I'll have a look.

Thanks for the leads!

Regards,
Jake

On 11/14/11, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> Hi Jake,
>
> This is close to what you are asking for.
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=795
>
> and this even more
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=795
>
> I also imagine the Blackwood Etudes or perhaps
> the theme and variations on Mozart that Jacob did are right on the money
> with
> your request.
>
> All the best,
>
> Chris
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
>>
>> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
>> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
>> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
>> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
>> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
>>
>> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
>> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
>> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
>> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
>> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
>> anyone have or know of any examples?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jake
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Oops - the other link is Orwellian Cameras

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=341

Which if you want the scoredatura I'll be glad to give it to you.

Chris

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thanks, Chris. The motet is the kind of thing I was looking for. I'm
> not sure what else you had on offer, though, because both links were
> the same. :)
>
> I bought the Microtonal Etudes a while back on someone's
> recommendation (Mike B, maybe?), and while they're good, they're not
> really what I'm looking for -- I'm more interested in non-meantone
> tunings used for otherwise-traditional composition, especially
> counterpoint. Blackwood's 15-EDO classical guitar piece from the same
> album is more along the lines of what I'm looking for, actually. (If
> you haven't heard that, you should. :) )
>
> I don't know Jacob's Mozart variations, but I'll have a look.
>
> Thanks for the leads!
>
> Regards,
> Jake
>
>
> On 11/14/11, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> > Hi Jake,
> >
> > This is close to what you are asking for.
> >
> > http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=795
> >
> > and this even more
> >
> > http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=795
> >
> > I also imagine the Blackwood Etudes or perhaps
> > the theme and variations on Mozart that Jacob did are right on the money
> > with
> > your request.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >> **
>
> >>
> >>
> >> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual
> scale?
> >>
> >> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
> >> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
> >> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
> >> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
> >> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
> >>
> >> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
> >> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
> >> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
> >> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
> >> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
> >> anyone have or know of any examples?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Jake
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been working on a counterpoint system for 17edo for some time now. The basic idea is sketched here:

/makemicromusic/topicId_16475.html#16573

The principle works for any tuning. It just takes time to build up the rule tables, which I did basically founded on what sounds good to me, not heeding the classical rules too much. The resulting system for 17edo (still in development) includes the intervals known from classical counteproint adding fourths, major seconds and minor sevenths, it has also fifth parallels. For BP this would undoubtedly look different again - would be an interesting endeavour to do.

Here is an example how it sounds in 17edo - not that "unusual", though...

https://share.ols.inode.at/OGBUK5NNMW6JJRI4V8HDT9WDAXFS8F7VVHQFLD39

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
>
> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
>
> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
> anyone have or know of any examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Jake
>

Thank you very much, Hans. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm
looking for. I also like your expression of first-species
counterpoint: given a(n), b(n), and a(n+1), what are the possible
values of b(n+1)?

Regards,
Jake

On 11/15/11, hstraub64 <straub@...> wrote:
>
>
> I have been working on a counterpoint system for 17edo for some time now.
> The basic idea is sketched here:
>
> /makemicromusic/topicId_16475.html#16573
>
> The principle works for any tuning. It just takes time to build up the rule
> tables, which I did basically founded on what sounds good to me, not heeding
> the classical rules too much. The resulting system for 17edo (still in
> development) includes the intervals known from classical counteproint adding
> fourths, major seconds and minor sevenths, it has also fifth parallels. For
> BP this would undoubtedly look different again - would be an interesting
> endeavour to do.
>
> Here is an example how it sounds in 17edo - not that "unusual", though...
>
> https://share.ols.inode.at/OGBUK5NNMW6JJRI4V8HDT9WDAXFS8F7VVHQFLD39
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
>>
>> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
>> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
>> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
>> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
>> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
>>
>> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
>> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
>> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
>> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
>> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
>> anyone have or know of any examples?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jake
>>
>
>
>

Sounds good Hans!

On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:26 AM, hstraub64 <straub@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> I have been working on a counterpoint system for 17edo for some time now.
> The basic idea is sketched here:
>
> /makemicromusic/topicId_16475.html#16573
>
> The principle works for any tuning. It just takes time to build up the
> rule tables, which I did basically founded on what sounds good to me, not
> heeding the classical rules too much. The resulting system for 17edo (still
> in development) includes the intervals known from classical counteproint
> adding fourths, major seconds and minor sevenths, it has also fifth
> parallels. For BP this would undoubtedly look different again - would be an
> interesting endeavour to do.
>
> Here is an example how it sounds in 17edo - not that "unusual", though...
>
> https://share.ols.inode.at/OGBUK5NNMW6JJRI4V8HDT9WDAXFS8F7VVHQFLD39
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My newest electronic polystylistic improvisation/collage with randomly detuned piano is here:

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11199979

Name: Soundscape on the Shore 1Q4Q (Musical Letter to Haruki Murakami)

Used instruments: Yamaha P500, SY99, MU128, PSR9000 Pro, Korg Wavestation A/D, Emu UltraProteus, Roland V-piano

Quotations: Beatles - Norwegian Wood, Janacek - Sinfonietta

Other styles used for improvised sequences: Baroque, Blues, Swing, Jazz Ballad, Hawaii, Bossa nova, Greek 7/8

(all of them have some relation to Murakami's books)

Enjoy!

Daniel Forro

Thank you! Took me quite a while to write it, as short as it is... Writing counterpoint is not a piece of cake - Jake, you are not alone...

BTW, the system I sketched is sort of simplified compared to classical counterpoint - there is, e.g., a rule that there must be no series of imperfect consonances longer than 2 notes, which would translate into a rule not only involving an, bn and a(n+1) but also b(n-1). Mathematically, the system can be described as a Markov process - my simplified system would be a first-order Markov process while classical counterpoint would be a second-order one.

Besides, in classical counterpoint rules the absolutes values of the an matter while in my system it is only the difference (the interval from one cantus firmus note to the next). But all these things could be modeled in a very similar ways, if desired.

For me, even in this simplified form, the system is starting to work quite well now - it is, however, rather a rough framework giving merely hints on how to proceed.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds good Hans!
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:26 AM, hstraub64 <straub@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been working on a counterpoint system for 17edo for some time now.
> > The basic idea is sketched here:
> >
> > /makemicromusic/topicId_16475.html#16573
> >
> > The principle works for any tuning. It just takes time to build up the
> > rule tables, which I did basically founded on what sounds good to me, not
> > heeding the classical rules too much. The resulting system for 17edo (still
> > in development) includes the intervals known from classical counteproint
> > adding fourths, major seconds and minor sevenths, it has also fifth
> > parallels. For BP this would undoubtedly look different again - would be an
> > interesting endeavour to do.
> >
> > Here is an example how it sounds in 17edo - not that "unusual", though...
> >
> > https://share.ols.inode.at/OGBUK5NNMW6JJRI4V8HDT9WDAXFS8F7VVHQFLD39
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Here is another one I forgot - this is in 88 cent ET tuning composed
purposefully to study counterpoint.
It comes with a score.

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=951

Chris

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
>
> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
>
> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
> anyone have or know of any examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Jake
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jake,

Aaron Hunt has a set of preludes, fugues, and such, in each EDO from 7 to 20, all skillfully written in baroque-type counterpoint. Here: http://www.h-pi.com/musicFiles.html
Not in BP, though.
Juhani

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
>
> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
>
> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
> anyone have or know of any examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Jake
>

Thank you very much, Juhani! I'll check them out.

On 11/16/11, Juhani <jnylenius@...> wrote:
> Hi Jake,
>
> Aaron Hunt has a set of preludes, fugues, and such, in each EDO from 7 to
> 20, all skillfully written in baroque-type counterpoint. Here:
> http://www.h-pi.com/musicFiles.html
> Not in BP, though.
> Juhani
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
>>
>> Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
>> consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
>> tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
>> music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
>> and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
>>
>> I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
>> but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
>> if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
>> reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
>> correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
>> anyone have or know of any examples?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jake
>>
>
>
>

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@> wrote:
I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
> > correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
> > anyone have or know of any examples?

Hi Jake,
these pieces are samples of "other xenharmonic" counterpoint (not BP):
1) A brand new subminor and septimal version of a canon 2 in 1 upon a ground which I wrote a few months ago (tuning is septimal meantone with 31 fifths):
http://youtu.be/QAleDOjStQw

The following five canons are in septimal meantone with 31 fifths and include the original minor version of the above canon (the first three ones use most of the 31 notes of the scale):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_YVhwArGTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEeKltGny04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwKeFLgbngY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyEpCWkxSsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwE9scGcU90

Bests,
Claudi Meneghin

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Juhani" <jnylenius@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jake,
>
> Aaron Hunt has a set of preludes, fugues, and such, in each EDO from 7 to 20, all skillfully written in baroque-type counterpoint. Here: http://www.h-pi.com/musicFiles.html
> Not in BP, though.
> Juhani
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@> wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone done counterpoint studies in BP or another very unusual scale?
> >
> > Traditional counterpoint used the unison, octave, and fifth as perfect
> > consonances, thirds and sixths as imperfect consonances, and other
> > tones as dissonances. I'd like to think we could write interesting
> > music by using the same rules, but with (e.g.) the unison, tritave,
> > and 5/3 as perfect consonances, and so on.
> >
> > I have attempted to write a few examples of BP counterpoint myself,
> > but I can't really even write standard counterpoint, so I don't know
> > if my attempts are awful because of my incompetence or for other
> > reasons. I would be interested in hearing good (or technically
> > correct, at least) BP (or other xenharmonic) counterpoint -- does
> > anyone have or know of any examples?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jake
> >
>