A bit political, but what the heck.

Sorry for barging in on the scene with a political topic displaying my
twisted anarchist side, but I couldn't resist pointing out the unfair
economical discriminations onus "third-world"(!) participants concerning
microtonal/xentonal music sales.

Here is the complaint receipt I sent to Innova Records:

------

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have with utmost enthusiasm selected three valuable titles from
American composers - as a Turkish doctor of musicology, myself being a
composer and pianist - on sale in your store (Immolation Ritual, Ives
"Concord", Partch & Drummond), but have been appalled at the shipment
fees you deduced for a purchase for three CDs priced at 15 USD each. 98
dollars for shipment and handling??? This is outrageous when it is
simply a matter of sending an envelope containing cheap plastic. The
manner in which international costumers are robbed of enjoying the
benefits of the world-wide "free market economy" is scandalous and
disgraceful.

As must have been obvious to you, I have cancelled my purchase.

Thank you for your time, and have a good day.
Dr. Ozan Yarman

---------

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

good grief. You'd think they thought shipping to Turkey required space
transport.

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>wrote:

>
>
> Sorry for barging in on the scene with a political topic displaying my
> twisted anarchist side, but I couldn't resist pointing out the unfair
> economical discriminations onus "third-world"(!) participants concerning
> microtonal/xentonal music sales.
>
> Here is the complaint receipt I sent to Innova Records:
>
> ------
>
> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I have with utmost enthusiasm selected three valuable titles from
> American composers - as a Turkish doctor of musicology, myself being a
> composer and pianist - on sale in your store (Immolation Ritual, Ives
> "Concord", Partch & Drummond), but have been appalled at the shipment
> fees you deduced for a purchase for three CDs priced at 15 USD each. 98
> dollars for shipment and handling??? This is outrageous when it is
> simply a matter of sending an envelope containing cheap plastic. The
> manner in which international costumers are robbed of enjoying the
> benefits of the world-wide "free market economy" is scandalous and
> disgraceful.
>
> As must have been obvious to you, I have cancelled my purchase.
>
> Thank you for your time, and have a good day.
> Dr. Ozan Yarman
>
> ---------
>
> Oz.
>
> --
>
> ✩ ✩ ✩
> www.ozanyarman.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They must be using Star Trek teleportation technology from Romulus 5 to
Istanbul. Hah!

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> good grief. You'd think they thought shipping to Turkey required space
> transport.
>
> On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...>wrote:
>
>> Sorry for barging in on the scene with a political topic displaying my
>> twisted anarchist side, but I couldn't resist pointing out the unfair
>> economical discriminations onus "third-world"(!) participants concerning
>> microtonal/xentonal music sales.
>>
>> Here is the complaint receipt I sent to Innova Records:
>>
>> ------
>>
>> Dear Sir/Madam,
>>
>> I have with utmost enthusiasm selected three valuable titles from
>> American composers - as a Turkish doctor of musicology, myself being a
>> composer and pianist - on sale in your store (Immolation Ritual, Ives
>> "Concord", Partch& Drummond), but have been appalled at the shipment
>> fees you deduced for a purchase for three CDs priced at 15 USD each. 98
>> dollars for shipment and handling??? This is outrageous when it is
>> simply a matter of sending an envelope containing cheap plastic. The
>> manner in which international costumers are robbed of enjoying the
>> benefits of the world-wide "free market economy" is scandalous and
>> disgraceful.
>>
>> As must have been obvious to you, I have cancelled my purchase.
>>
>> Thank you for your time, and have a good day.
>> Dr. Ozan Yarman
>>
>> ---------
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...> wrote:

> 98 dollars for shipment and handling???

And people wonder why CD sales are falling...is there nowhere that you can purchase those titles in digital format? If not, perhaps piracy would be morally permissible in this case?

-Igs

I would most definitely support crumbling down these thieving
double-dealing institutions of macro-capitalism in any anarchist manner
unallowable by law.

As a side note, again political though, they want to install government
controlled filters to block Turkey's access to a plethora of sites that
are readily available to US and Europe... not to mention limiting the
shipment of personal shopping items per year over the web to serve the
pockets of their embezzling corporate entities.

Great world of free market democracy and human liberties we're having, eh?

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

cityoftheasleep wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
>> 98 dollars for shipment and handling???
>
> And people wonder why CD sales are falling...is there nowhere that you can purchase those titles in digital format? If not, perhaps piracy would be morally permissible in this case?
>
> -Igs
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Oz,

I hope you'll allow me a few words.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> I would most definitely support crumbling down these thieving
> double-dealing institutions of macro-capitalism in any anarchist manner
> unallowable by law.

The fees you cited were beyond reasonable, and I need to state that up front. The thing I wonder is how this compares to other manufactured good of a similar nature that needed to be shipped from US -> Turkey, and whether or not a discussion with people at innova regarding a combined shipping might help?

I bring this up for a specific reason: are you aware of the nature of this label and organization. The label was born out of the American Composers Forum, a non-profit entity that has been, for years, supporting the work of composers in unconventional ways, composers who had fallen through the cracks of larger support structures (big-time grants, universities, etc).

In one very small aspect of what they do, I've had a significant partnership: Dr. Philip Blackburn took over the work of Kenneth Gaburo in publishing the final documents of Harry Partch. The outcome of this was the innova/Partch "Enclosures" series, which includes multiple CDs, DVD versions of films made with Partch, and one very large and informative biographical/pictorial book. Together with CDs from New World Records, the Enclosure series succeeded, for the first time, to have every recording Partch ever made accessible to the public. I know this because I curate the archives of the Partch Foundation, and I was the one doing the transfers of the recordings from the original masters.

Frankly, if it wouldn't have been for 10 years of tireless work by Philip and innova, these recordings, his (Partch's) photographs, and much of his writing and correspondence would have not seen the light of day, and have garnered the attention around the world that it has.

I don't speak for the recording industry (yeah, like it even exists anymore!) or any of the other companies. But since you've raised the issue specifically with them, and are painting them in a pretty bad light, I just wanted you to know that the people who are involved with the ACF and innova are some of the most hard-working people I know, and that hard work is completely directed at getting composers heard by people. They aren't evil, money-grubbing scum, but passionate devotees of the creative output of composers and musicians from many areas of the art.

If it is Partch you are interested in, I can figure out ways to get recordings to you. Write me off-list and I'll see what I can do.

Cordially,
Jon

Dear Jon, by all means...

I could have no qualms with the hard-working class who toil to earn
respectible income that is equivalent to what they accomplish in the
lines of production. Neither can I have any resentment against the
elevation of deserving art at whatever cost. My beef is with corporate
middlemen (leeching in Innova, and/or FedEx, and/or USP or anywhere
else) who have the audacity to charge at least double the price of 3 CDs
for international shipment without shedding a drop of sweat. There is no
justification for 800 percent profit per parcel, other than the blatant
truth about the state of our decaying world. If this is a general trend
for overseas shipments of music media and other products from the USA -
as it seems to be - I can say that you are wasting your time defending
these organizations. I blame not the good folk employed for minimum to
average wages dedicating their lives to noble goals without seeking
lavish material gains, but the discriminatory and greedy capitalist
mentality taking hold of the establishment.

I do not desire any special treatment, nor should you suggest such a
course on their behalf. The rectification for this horrid scenary is the
immediate global reversal of the aforesaid isolationist and exploitative
international policy poised over the world market like a
carrion-ravished vulture.

If you have any communication with the said good folk, I would urge you
to deliver my sentiments from my side of the globe.

Cordially,
Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

jonszanto wrote:
> Dear Oz,
>
> I hope you'll allow me a few words.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>> I would most definitely support crumbling down these thieving
>> double-dealing institutions of macro-capitalism in any anarchist manner
>> unallowable by law.
>
> The fees you cited were beyond reasonable, and I need to state that up front. The thing I wonder is how this compares to other manufactured good of a similar nature that needed to be shipped from US -> Turkey, and whether or not a discussion with people at innova regarding a combined shipping might help?
>
> I bring this up for a specific reason: are you aware of the nature of this label and organization. The label was born out of the American Composers Forum, a non-profit entity that has been, for years, supporting the work of composers in unconventional ways, composers who had fallen through the cracks of larger support structures (big-time grants, universities, etc).
>
> In one very small aspect of what they do, I've had a significant partnership: Dr. Philip Blackburn took over the work of Kenneth Gaburo in publishing the final documents of Harry Partch. The outcome of this was the innova/Partch "Enclosures" series, which includes multiple CDs, DVD versions of films made with Partch, and one very large and informative biographical/pictorial book. Together with CDs from New World Records, the Enclosure series succeeded, for the first time, to have every recording Partch ever made accessible to the public. I know this because I curate the archives of the Partch Foundation, and I was the one doing the transfers of the recordings from the original masters.
>
> Frankly, if it wouldn't have been for 10 years of tireless work by Philip and innova, these recordings, his (Partch's) photographs, and much of his writing and correspondence would have not seen the light of day, and have garnered the attention around the world that it has.
>
> I don't speak for the recording industry (yeah, like it even exists anymore!) or any of the other companies. But since you've raised the issue specifically with them, and are painting them in a pretty bad light, I just wanted you to know that the people who are involved with the ACF and innova are some of the most hard-working people I know, and that hard work is completely directed at getting composers heard by people. They aren't evil, money-grubbing scum, but passionate devotees of the creative output of composers and musicians from many areas of the art.
>
> If it is Partch you are interested in, I can figure out ways to get recordings to you. Write me off-list and I'll see what I can do.
>
> Cordially,
> Jon
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oz,

Seeing as independent producers such as innova don't take in a penny more by virtue of their shipping charges, your sentiments towards them are entirely misplaced. The money they might make on a CD is the same whether it comes to me or goes anywhere else, as they certainly won't see any change in their bottom line by mailing to you.

To satisfy my own curiosity I'll write my contact there to get his perspective on it. It baffles me that you can't separate the two issues, but that is something for you to deal with. A more reasonable approach might find a reasonable solution.

I'm sure this is all off-topic, so I won't post anything more on the matter.

Jon

Dunno... I once bought a cd from a fellow Flamenco guitarist. He sent it to me from Spain to Switzerland - not even overseas, but the shipping fee practically doubled the cd price. But I did not really care - I wanted the cd, and I wanted to support the guy, who had neither a big name nor a major record label behind himself. I mean, the real world is not a village, and sending parcels, well, costs. A big record company may be able to cut the fees, by market power and/or quantity (and if the artist has a big name) - but artists/labels outside of the mainstream just do not have this possibility. I fail to see "isolationist" or "discriminating third world" politics or even any politics here. And the prices are, after all, not at a level that buying a cd would become unaffordable, are they?

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Jon, by all means...
>
> I could have no qualms with the hard-working class who toil to earn
> respectible income that is equivalent to what they accomplish in
> the lines of production. Neither can I have any resentment against
> the elevation of deserving art at whatever cost. My beef is with
> corporate middlemen (leeching in Innova, and/or FedEx, and/or USP
> or anywhere else) who have the audacity to charge at least double
> the price of 3 CDs for international shipment without shedding a
> drop of sweat. There is no justification for 800 percent profit per
> parcel, other than the blatant truth about the state of our
> decaying world. If this is a general trend for overseas shipments
> of music media and other products from the USA - as it seems to be
> - I can say that you are wasting your time defending these
> organizations. I blame not the good folk employed for minimum to
> average wages dedicating their lives to noble goals without seeking
> lavish material gains, but the discriminatory and greedy capitalist
> mentality taking hold of the establishment.
>
> I do not desire any special treatment, nor should you suggest such
> a course on their behalf. The rectification for this horrid scenary
> is the immediate global reversal of the aforesaid isolationist and
> exploitative international policy poised over the world market like
> a carrion-ravished vulture.
>
> If you have any communication with the said good folk, I would urge
> you to deliver my sentiments from my side of the globe.
>
> Cordially,
> Oz.
>
> --
>
> ✩ ✩ ✩
> www.ozanyarman.com
>
>
> jonszanto wrote:
> > Dear Oz,
> >
> > I hope you'll allow me a few words.
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@> wrote:
> >> I would most definitely support crumbling down these thieving
> >> double-dealing institutions of macro-capitalism in any anarchist manner
> >> unallowable by law.
> >
> > The fees you cited were beyond reasonable, and I need to state that up front. The thing I wonder is how this compares to other manufactured good of a similar nature that needed to be shipped from US -> Turkey, and whether or not a discussion with people at innova regarding a combined shipping might help?
> >
> > I bring this up for a specific reason: are you aware of the nature of this label and organization. The label was born out of the American Composers Forum, a non-profit entity that has been, for years, supporting the work of composers in unconventional ways, composers who had fallen through the cracks of larger support structures (big-time grants, universities, etc).
> >
> > In one very small aspect of what they do, I've had a significant partnership: Dr. Philip Blackburn took over the work of Kenneth Gaburo in publishing the final documents of Harry Partch. The outcome of this was the innova/Partch "Enclosures" series, which includes multiple CDs, DVD versions of films made with Partch, and one very large and informative biographical/pictorial book. Together with CDs from New World Records, the Enclosure series succeeded, for the first time, to have every recording Partch ever made accessible to the public. I know this because I curate the archives of the Partch Foundation, and I was the one doing the transfers of the recordings from the original masters.
> >
> > Frankly, if it wouldn't have been for 10 years of tireless work by Philip and innova, these recordings, his (Partch's) photographs, and much of his writing and correspondence would have not seen the light of day, and have garnered the attention around the world that it has.
> >
> > I don't speak for the recording industry (yeah, like it even exists anymore!) or any of the other companies. But since you've raised the issue specifically with them, and are painting them in a pretty bad light, I just wanted you to know that the people who are involved with the ACF and innova are some of the most hard-working people I know, and that hard work is completely directed at getting composers heard by people. They aren't evil, money-grubbing scum, but passionate devotees of the creative output of composers and musicians from many areas of the art.
> >
> > If it is Partch you are interested in, I can figure out ways to get recordings to you. Write me off-list and I'll see what I can do.
> >
> > Cordially,
> > Jon
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hans, I have went offline in this discussion with Jon Stanzo. If you are
directing this question at me, I would like to briefly state that I am
not in agreement with you about being swindled on shipping charges.

Cordially,
Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

hstraub64 wrote:
> Dunno... I once bought a cd from a fellow Flamenco guitarist. He sent it to me from Spain to Switzerland - not even overseas, but the shipping fee practically doubled the cd price. But I did not really care - I wanted the cd, and I wanted to support the guy, who had neither a big name nor a major record label behind himself. I mean, the real world is not a village, and sending parcels, well, costs. A big record company may be able to cut the fees, by market power and/or quantity (and if the artist has a big name) - but artists/labels outside of the mainstream just do not have this possibility. I fail to see "isolationist" or "discriminating third world" politics or even any politics here. And the prices are, after all, not at a level that buying a cd would become unaffordable, are they?
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>> Dear Jon, by all means...
>>
>> I could have no qualms with the hard-working class who toil to earn
>> respectible income that is equivalent to what they accomplish in
>> the lines of production. Neither can I have any resentment against
>> the elevation of deserving art at whatever cost. My beef is with
>> corporate middlemen (leeching in Innova, and/or FedEx, and/or USP
>> or anywhere else) who have the audacity to charge at least double
>> the price of 3 CDs for international shipment without shedding a
>> drop of sweat. There is no justification for 800 percent profit per
>> parcel, other than the blatant truth about the state of our
>> decaying world. If this is a general trend for overseas shipments
>> of music media and other products from the USA - as it seems to be
>> - I can say that you are wasting your time defending these
>> organizations. I blame not the good folk employed for minimum to
>> average wages dedicating their lives to noble goals without seeking
>> lavish material gains, but the discriminatory and greedy capitalist
>> mentality taking hold of the establishment.
>>
>> I do not desire any special treatment, nor should you suggest such
>> a course on their behalf. The rectification for this horrid scenary
>> is the immediate global reversal of the aforesaid isolationist and
>> exploitative international policy poised over the world market like
>> a carrion-ravished vulture.
>>
>> If you have any communication with the said good folk, I would urge
>> you to deliver my sentiments from my side of the globe.
>>
>> Cordially,
>> Oz.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>
>>
>> jonszanto wrote:
>>> Dear Oz,
>>>
>>> I hope you'll allow me a few words.
>>>
>>> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@> wrote:
>>>> I would most definitely support crumbling down these thieving
>>>> double-dealing institutions of macro-capitalism in any anarchist manner
>>>> unallowable by law.
>>> The fees you cited were beyond reasonable, and I need to state that up front. The thing I wonder is how this compares to other manufactured good of a similar nature that needed to be shipped from US -> Turkey, and whether or not a discussion with people at innova regarding a combined shipping might help?
>>>
>>> I bring this up for a specific reason: are you aware of the nature of this label and organization. The label was born out of the American Composers Forum, a non-profit entity that has been, for years, supporting the work of composers in unconventional ways, composers who had fallen through the cracks of larger support structures (big-time grants, universities, etc).
>>>
>>> In one very small aspect of what they do, I've had a significant partnership: Dr. Philip Blackburn took over the work of Kenneth Gaburo in publishing the final documents of Harry Partch. The outcome of this was the innova/Partch "Enclosures" series, which includes multiple CDs, DVD versions of films made with Partch, and one very large and informative biographical/pictorial book. Together with CDs from New World Records, the Enclosure series succeeded, for the first time, to have every recording Partch ever made accessible to the public. I know this because I curate the archives of the Partch Foundation, and I was the one doing the transfers of the recordings from the original masters.
>>>
>>> Frankly, if it wouldn't have been for 10 years of tireless work by Philip and innova, these recordings, his (Partch's) photographs, and much of his writing and correspondence would have not seen the light of day, and have garnered the attention around the world that it has.
>>>
>>> I don't speak for the recording industry (yeah, like it even exists anymore!) or any of the other companies. But since you've raised the issue specifically with them, and are painting them in a pretty bad light, I just wanted you to know that the people who are involved with the ACF and innova are some of the most hard-working people I know, and that hard work is completely directed at getting composers heard by people. They aren't evil, money-grubbing scum, but passionate devotees of the creative output of composers and musicians from many areas of the art.
>>>
>>> If it is Partch you are interested in, I can figure out ways to get recordings to you. Write me off-list and I'll see what I can do.
>>>
>>> Cordially,
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hans,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "hstraub64" <straub@...> wrote:
>
> A big record company may be able to cut the fees, by market power and/or quantity (and if the artist has a big name) - but artists/labels outside of the mainstream just do not have this possibility. I fail to see "isolationist" or "discriminating third world" politics or even any politics here. And the prices are, after all, not at a level that buying a cd would become unaffordable, are they?

As I patiently pointed out to Ozan, after having gotten some facts on the matter from a colleague who works at innova, this is a tempest in a teapot: the egregious shipping charges were an error in the shopping cart system used by the web site. The actual charges are far less, and are reasonable (not much more than to ship domestically in the states), the employees/personnel go to lengths to make sure the automated charges *are* corrected, and there is specific notice to the customer to contact them with any questions and for the *exact* shipping charge.

Any reasonable person could have taken care of this in very quick order. These people believe in their composers and musicians, and really do wish for this music to be heard. They aren't making a killing (it's a non-profit) and the shipping charges, even when they are the normal, reasonable rates, are not something that they ultimately control.

Sadly, this is just a combination of a website anomaly, less-than-stellar communication, and a pre-determined agenda brought to the table. The vendor has already acknowledged the first; I doubt Oz will acknowledge that latter two.

Regards,
Jon

Oz. acknowledges everything you have relayed from your companions at
Innova Jon. What he doesn't acknowledge is you going to these absurd
lengths to justify a "mistake" which has been shown to you through
private correspondence to be childish and naive in the very least. I
iterate that I have no beef with any hard workers and passionate
devotees there. But, the "mistake" you are talking about matters life to
the company, that one could easily be taken as a fool should one take
the determined final sum at face value and proceed to the checkout. Have
you validated for yourself if there were any warnings up until the time
one encounters the ridiculous shipping charges? Where am I supposed to
read that the company has no control on the correct shipping rates for
online sales? Since you decided to act as Innova's lawyer, show me where
exactly this so-called message is written please!

Not that it matters. You expect people here to believe that a website
having a respectable catalogue and database of a plethora of CDs for
online sales through the internet banking system wrongly, deceptively
displays shipping informations? What are they using over there, toy
calculators?

Stop being ludicrous. And stop humiliating yourself further my good man.
If there is any "mistake" to be corrected, let the responsible ones
address it, not you.

Cordially,
Dr. Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

jonszanto wrote:
> Hans,
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "hstraub64"<straub@...> wrote:
>> A big record company may be able to cut the fees, by market power and/or quantity (and if the artist has a big name) - but artists/labels outside of the mainstream just do not have this possibility. I fail to see "isolationist" or "discriminating third world" politics or even any politics here. And the prices are, after all, not at a level that buying a cd would become unaffordable, are they?
>
> As I patiently pointed out to Ozan, after having gotten some facts on the matter from a colleague who works at innova, this is a tempest in a teapot: the egregious shipping charges were an error in the shopping cart system used by the web site. The actual charges are far less, and are reasonable (not much more than to ship domestically in the states), the employees/personnel go to lengths to make sure the automated charges *are* corrected, and there is specific notice to the customer to contact them with any questions and for the *exact* shipping charge.
>
> Any reasonable person could have taken care of this in very quick order. These people believe in their composers and musicians, and really do wish for this music to be heard. They aren't making a killing (it's a non-profit) and the shipping charges, even when they are the normal, reasonable rates, are not something that they ultimately control.
>
> Sadly, this is just a combination of a website anomaly, less-than-stellar communication, and a pre-determined agenda brought to the table. The vendor has already acknowledged the first; I doubt Oz will acknowledge that latter two.
>
> Regards,
> Jon
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jon, this has never concerned you, and it still does not concern you.
You have tried to offer help, for which I have voiced my appreciation
earlier, but it is apparent that you cannot come to terms with
respecting my side of the reality. Instead, you want to invent some
hidden agenda and take it personal. Well, I have listened and I don't
buy your poor arguments. End of story. Since you are not an appointed
spokesperson for Innova or FedEx or anyone else involved (I doubt they
would consider it after seeing your childish insults in an adult
dialogue), kindly remove yourself from this topic. I've got better
things to do with my time.

Cordially,
Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

jonszanto wrote:
> Oz,
>
> This could have been dealt with so easily. Anyone with any brains, and not just a degree, would have seen the inflated shipping charge and figured "wait, that can't be right" and with appropriate contact, the matter would have been resolved, which I've ascertained for myself.
>
> You're just an asshole. You've proven that over a long time on these lists. I don't need to waste any more of my time to help when you continue to be a first-class jerk.
>
> J
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ozan wrote:

>Jon, this has never concerned you, and it still does not concern you.

Actually it does, since you posted it here. (And if I'm not
mistaken, Jon has written or at least fact-checked liner notes
for some Innova releases.)

Your initial letter to Innova which you posted here was
unnecessarily dramatic, grandiose, and accusatory. A simple
"I'd like to purchase these recordings, but the shipping
charges are too high" would have done the job.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

> Your initial letter to Innova which you posted here was
> unnecessarily dramatic, grandiose, and accusatory. A simple
> "I'd like to purchase these recordings, but the shipping
> charges are too high" would have done the job.

Innova screwed up. An angry letter is the sort of thing which happens when you screw up. Why make a big deal out of that obvious fact?

My God! I was beginning to feel let down with all the corporate pressure
back there. Thanks for stating the obvious Gene. It's as if I'm the one
at fault here. Hah! :)

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

genewardsmith wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma<carl@...> wrote:
>
>> Your initial letter to Innova which you posted here was
>> unnecessarily dramatic, grandiose, and accusatory. A simple
>> "I'd like to purchase these recordings, but the shipping
>> charges are too high" would have done the job.
>
> Innova screwed up. An angry letter is the sort of thing which happens when you screw up. Why make a big deal out of that obvious fact?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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