One solution for temporary guitar frets

I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar with adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try out new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.

The details and proof of concept video is here:

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779

That's quite innovative. Now all that remains is to find a similar
method for liberating each frets per string.

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

christopherv wrote:
> I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar with adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try out new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.
>
> The details and proof of concept video is here:
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good idea. I have been wondering if metal ties would work, problem is they're very thin, perhaps something could be attached to them to form a fret.

http://www.cn-cableties.com/uploadpic/chart200891314734.jpg

Pity that guitar necks are tapered, as there's a chance a tie might slip in one direction, and can't be slid to any point on the neck. It always strikes me as odd that guitars have had movable frets for 100s and probably 1000s of years and here we are struggling to acheive it. Some progress huh ...

MatC

If you are going with metal ties (which I saw at home depot today) you might
as well glue wire to the fret board like Dante Rosati's method. They looked
to me to be very difficult to removed w/o damaging the guitar.

In practice the cable ties can be moved backwards a bit. The plastic has
some elasticity. The way I put these on is tie on above where I wanted them
to be, tighten, and then slide to my targeted point. It is really quite easy
to do.

Chris

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:59 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:

>
>
> Good idea. I have been wondering if metal ties would work, problem is
> they're very thin, perhaps something could be attached to them to form a
> fret.
>
> http://www.cn-cableties.com/uploadpic/chart200891314734.jpg
>
> Pity that guitar necks are tapered, as there's a chance a tie might slip in
> one direction, and can't be slid to any point on the neck. It always strikes
> me as odd that guitars have had movable frets for 100s and probably 1000s of
> years and here we are struggling to acheive it. Some progress huh ...
>
> MatC
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To a limited degree you could do JI by using additional ties as frets. For
detailed JI tunings I think Dante Rosati's method of gluing wire is still
superior.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>wrote:

>
>
> That's quite innovative. Now all that remains is to find a similar
> method for liberating each frets per string.
>
> Oz.
>
> --
>
> ✩ ✩ ✩
> www.ozanyarman.com
>
>
> christopherv wrote:
> > I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and
> to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar with
> adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try out
> new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.
> >
> > The details and proof of concept video is here:
> >
> > http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent, I'm glad it's working well.

You can get coloured ties too ...

http://www.thecrimpcompany.com/scpro/crimp/products/catimages/cable-ties_rainbow.jpg

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> If you are going with metal ties (which I saw at home depot today) you might
> as well glue wire to the fret board like Dante Rosati's method. They looked
> to me to be very difficult to removed w/o damaging the guitar.

Hmmm yes good point.

MatC

I was thinking of an amorphous solid wire serving as a fret that could
bend to achieve alternative tunings via a little heat.

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> To a limited degree you could do JI by using additional ties as frets. For
> detailed JI tunings I think Dante Rosati's method of gluing wire is still
> superior.
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...m>wrote:
>
>> That's quite innovative. Now all that remains is to find a similar
>> method for liberating each frets per string.
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>
>>
>> christopherv wrote:
>>> I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and
>> to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar with
>> adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try out
>> new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.
>>> The details and proof of concept video is here:
>>>
>>> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> If you are going with metal ties (which I saw at home depot today) you might
> as well glue wire to the fret board like Dante Rosati's method. They looked
> to me to be very difficult to removed w/o damaging the guitar.
>
> In practice the cable ties can be moved backwards a bit. The plastic has
> some elasticity. The way I put these on is tie on above where I wanted them
> to be, tighten, and then slide to my targeted point. It is really quite easy
> to do.

All of this has inspired a new idea too - what if you got a huge sheet
of sticky laminate of some kind and built some kind of a "mask" for
the fretboard, which you could then stick on or take off? Maybe
something like this

1) Place cable ties on fretboard
2) Put sticky laminate on top of cable ties
3) Cut cable ties
4) Removed cable ties will now stick to laminate
5) Cut the excess cable tie bits so that you have a sheet of laminate
with cable-tie "frets" on it.

You now have a few options when it comes to trimming the laminate
- Leave enough laminate so that you can place the frets on properly
and wrap the whole thing around the fretboard to stick it on
Advantages: Easy
Disadvantages: Adhesive will wear out over time, might gunk up your
neck, might slide over and ruin your intonation

- Trim the laminate so that it turns into the same shape as your
fingerboard, stick it on, then maybe just tape it on with little
strips of scotch tape
Advantages: Since the laminate is the same shape as the fingerboard,
there's no problem with misaligning anything, still pretty easy
Disadvantages: Might still gunk up your fingerboard, the mask might
still slide around - although this may not be a problem if you use
enough tape, not sure if tape between frets will pose a problem

- Trim the laminate as per above (fingerboard cutout shape), then
place a second layer of laminate underneath it to stick to the
original and make it not sticky on both sides, then tape on
Advantages: Won't gunk up fingerboard
Disadvantages: Might slide around more easily, there is now a layer of
air between the sheets of laminate between the frets

- Trim the laminate as per above, but this time flip it around so that
the non-sticky side is facing down, then carefully cover the top side
of it with strips of laminate between the frets to get rid of the
stickiness
Advantages: Avoids the air problem as per above
Disadvantages: Still might slide around, getting to be a pain in the ass

- Do the whole process but instead of using laminate, first cover the
fretboard with a layer of some really thin plexiglass-like material,
cut out to fit the shape of the fretboard, then apply the cable ties,
then glue them, then cut and trim
Advantages: Avoids most of the problems above, mask will never stretch
Disadvantages: Huge pain in the ass, may screw up action

- Remove the fingerboard entirely and replace it with a thick layer of
plexiglass that is 1/8" thinner than the original fingerboard, cut to
the same shape. Leave binding intact. Now buy a 1/8 sheet of
plexiglass and cut it so that it fits on top. Apply cable ties, then
glue them, then cut and trim. When applying a new mask, just slip it
into the binding on top of the filler sheet of plexiglass. Attach with
tape or something.
Advantages: You now have a robust set of mini-fingerboards that you've
built yourself with materials that you can buy at Home Depot. You can
slip different tunings on or off at will. You can put your own fret
inlays in. You can do anything.
Disadvantages: Majorly huge pain in the ass, although once you do it
you're set. Will probably look dumb unless you're an artist. Removing
the fingerboard of a guitar is no simple task.

Phew. Well, that about sums up this train of thought. Somewhere in the
continuum of the above ideas is a good tradeoff for this concept, so
that you can create a 17-tet mask, then take it off and put a 19-tet
mask on, etc.

-Mike

I was, of course, talking about memory metals. One can fix the frets
according to 12 or 24-equal, then have the libery to bend them out of
shape to get the microtonal pitches. When one wishes to start over,
simply apply a little heat...

Oz.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [MMM] One solution for temporary guitar frets
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 05:29:10 +0300
From: Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com

I was thinking of an amorphous solid wire serving as a fret that could
bend to achieve alternative tunings via a little heat.

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> To a limited degree you could do JI by using additional ties as frets. For
> detailed JI tunings I think Dante Rosati's method of gluing wire is still
> superior.
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...>wrote:
>
>> That's quite innovative. Now all that remains is to find a similar
>> method for liberating each frets per string.
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>
>>
>> christopherv wrote:
>>> I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and
>> to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar with
>> adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try out
>> new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.
>>> The details and proof of concept video is here:
>>>
>>> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't have a workshop to try this. Are you going to give it a go?

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...m>
> wrote:
> > If you are going with metal ties (which I saw at home depot today) you
> might
> > as well glue wire to the fret board like Dante Rosati's method. They
> looked
> > to me to be very difficult to removed w/o damaging the guitar.
> >
> > In practice the cable ties can be moved backwards a bit. The plastic has
> > some elasticity. The way I put these on is tie on above where I wanted
> them
> > to be, tighten, and then slide to my targeted point. It is really quite
> easy
> > to do.
>
> All of this has inspired a new idea too - what if you got a huge sheet
> of sticky laminate of some kind and built some kind of a "mask" for
> the fretboard, which you could then stick on or take off? Maybe
> something like this
>
> 1) Place cable ties on fretboard
> 2) Put sticky laminate on top of cable ties
> 3) Cut cable ties
> 4) Removed cable ties will now stick to laminate
> 5) Cut the excess cable tie bits so that you have a sheet of laminate
> with cable-tie "frets" on it.
>
> You now have a few options when it comes to trimming the laminate
> - Leave enough laminate so that you can place the frets on properly
> and wrap the whole thing around the fretboard to stick it on
> Advantages: Easy
> Disadvantages: Adhesive will wear out over time, might gunk up your
> neck, might slide over and ruin your intonation
>
> - Trim the laminate so that it turns into the same shape as your
> fingerboard, stick it on, then maybe just tape it on with little
> strips of scotch tape
> Advantages: Since the laminate is the same shape as the fingerboard,
> there's no problem with misaligning anything, still pretty easy
> Disadvantages: Might still gunk up your fingerboard, the mask might
> still slide around - although this may not be a problem if you use
> enough tape, not sure if tape between frets will pose a problem
>
> - Trim the laminate as per above (fingerboard cutout shape), then
> place a second layer of laminate underneath it to stick to the
> original and make it not sticky on both sides, then tape on
> Advantages: Won't gunk up fingerboard
> Disadvantages: Might slide around more easily, there is now a layer of
> air between the sheets of laminate between the frets
>
> - Trim the laminate as per above, but this time flip it around so that
> the non-sticky side is facing down, then carefully cover the top side
> of it with strips of laminate between the frets to get rid of the
> stickiness
> Advantages: Avoids the air problem as per above
> Disadvantages: Still might slide around, getting to be a pain in the ass
>
> - Do the whole process but instead of using laminate, first cover the
> fretboard with a layer of some really thin plexiglass-like material,
> cut out to fit the shape of the fretboard, then apply the cable ties,
> then glue them, then cut and trim
> Advantages: Avoids most of the problems above, mask will never stretch
> Disadvantages: Huge pain in the ass, may screw up action
>
> - Remove the fingerboard entirely and replace it with a thick layer of
> plexiglass that is 1/8" thinner than the original fingerboard, cut to
> the same shape. Leave binding intact. Now buy a 1/8 sheet of
> plexiglass and cut it so that it fits on top. Apply cable ties, then
> glue them, then cut and trim. When applying a new mask, just slip it
> into the binding on top of the filler sheet of plexiglass. Attach with
> tape or something.
> Advantages: You now have a robust set of mini-fingerboards that you've
> built yourself with materials that you can buy at Home Depot. You can
> slip different tunings on or off at will. You can put your own fret
> inlays in. You can do anything.
> Disadvantages: Majorly huge pain in the ass, although once you do it
> you're set. Will probably look dumb unless you're an artist. Removing
> the fingerboard of a guitar is no simple task.
>
> Phew. Well, that about sums up this train of thought. Somewhere in the
> continuum of the above ideas is a good tradeoff for this concept, so
> that you can create a 17-tet mask, then take it off and put a 19-tet
> mask on, etc.
>
> -Mike
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think memory metal is required. Just use cheap enough material that
can be recycled.
The drawback here is how do you attach to the fretboard?

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>wrote:

>
>
> I was, of course, talking about memory metals. One can fix the frets
> according to 12 or 24-equal, then have the libery to bend them out of
> shape to get the microtonal pitches. When one wishes to start over,
> simply apply a little heat...
>
> Oz.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [MMM] One solution for temporary guitar frets
> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 05:29:10 +0300
> From: Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@ozanyarman.com>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
>
> I was thinking of an amorphous solid wire serving as a fret that could
> bend to achieve alternative tunings via a little heat.
>
> Oz.
>
> --
>
> ✩ ✩ ✩
> www.ozanyarman.com
>
> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> > To a limited degree you could do JI by using additional ties as frets.
> For
> > detailed JI tunings I think Dante Rosati's method of gluing wire is still
> > superior.
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...
> >wrote:
> >
> >> That's quite innovative. Now all that remains is to find a similar
> >> method for liberating each frets per string.
> >>
> >> Oz.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> ✩ ✩ ✩
> >> www.ozanyarman.com
> >>
> >>
> >> christopherv wrote:
> >>> I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and
> >> to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar
> with
> >> adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try
> out
> >> new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.
> >>> The details and proof of concept video is here:
> >>>
> >>> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> I don't have a workshop to try this. Are you going to give it a go?

I live in a trash can. But the basic idea with the laminate shouldn't
be too hard, right? Just put on cable ties, then apply sticky plastic
on top of it, then cut the cable ties and you can stick it on whenever
you want?

-Mike

Actually I am pursuing a different replaceable fretboard idea - involving a
guitar like my 11 edo stick.
And that is at the limit of my abilities.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I don't have a workshop to try this. Are you going to give it a go?
>
> I live in a trash can. But the basic idea with the laminate shouldn't
> be too hard, right? Just put on cable ties, then apply sticky plastic
> on top of it, then cut the cable ties and you can stick it on whenever
> you want?
>
> -Mike
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In the fashion you demonstrated.

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> I don't think memory metal is required. Just use cheap enough material that
> can be recycled.
> The drawback here is how do you attach to the fretboard?
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...>wrote:
>
>> I was, of course, talking about memory metals. One can fix the frets
>> according to 12 or 24-equal, then have the libery to bend them out of
>> shape to get the microtonal pitches. When one wishes to start over,
>> simply apply a little heat...
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [MMM] One solution for temporary guitar frets
>> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 05:29:10 +0300
>> From: Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...>
>> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> I was thinking of an amorphous solid wire serving as a fret that could
>> bend to achieve alternative tunings via a little heat.
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>
>> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>> To a limited degree you could do JI by using additional ties as frets.
>> For
>>> detailed JI tunings I think Dante Rosati's method of gluing wire is still
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's quite innovative. Now all that remains is to find a similar
>>>> method for liberating each frets per string.
>>>>
>>>> Oz.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>>>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> christopherv wrote:
>>>>> I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and
>>>> to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar
>> with
>>>> adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try
>> out
>>>> new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.
>>>>> The details and proof of concept video is here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I tried with copper wire in the same way. It didn't work. The copper didn't conform to the fret board.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>
Sender: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 06:36:56
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MMM] One solution for temporary guitar frets

In the fashion you demonstrated.

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> I don't think memory metal is required. Just use cheap enough material that
> can be recycled.
> The drawback here is how do you attach to the fretboard?
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...>wrote:
>
>> I was, of course, talking about memory metals. One can fix the frets
>> according to 12 or 24-equal, then have the libery to bend them out of
>> shape to get the microtonal pitches. When one wishes to start over,
>> simply apply a little heat...
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [MMM] One solution for temporary guitar frets
>> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 05:29:10 +0300
>> From: Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...>
>> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> I was thinking of an amorphous solid wire serving as a fret that could
>> bend to achieve alternative tunings via a little heat.
>>
>> Oz.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>
>> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>> To a limited degree you could do JI by using additional ties as frets.
>> For
>>> detailed JI tunings I think Dante Rosati's method of gluing wire is still
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's quite innovative. Now all that remains is to find a similar
>>>> method for liberating each frets per string.
>>>>
>>>> Oz.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ✩ ✩ ✩
>>>> www.ozanyarman.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> christopherv wrote:
>>>>> I've found one way to get temporary frets that work, are removable, and
>>>> to a degree re-tune-able - all that is required is a fretless guitar
>> with
>>>> adjustable bridge and cable ties. It really is a dead simple way to try
>> out
>>>> new tunings without spending a mint or waiting forever.
>>>>> The details and proof of concept video is here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=779
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "ixlramp" <ixlramp@...> wrote:
>
> Pity that guitar necks are tapered, as there's a chance a tie might slip in one direction, and can't be slid to any point on the neck. It always strikes me as odd that guitars have had movable frets for 100s and probably 1000s of years and here we are struggling to acheive it. Some progress huh ...
>
> MatC
>

Mark: We could just use the same solutions that worked before and still work now. Guitars with moveable frets had frets made of gut, much the same as the gut strings used on them. The gut was just tied on. Even with a tapered neck you can move the frets up and down a bit.

It should be easy enough to use the same technique with nylon strings and gut frets if people prefer, or possibly a material other than gut for tie on frets.

Personally, I am not sure it is a good idea for guitars to have tapered necks.

The Turkish Baglama has tie on gut frets (typically 17 frets in an octave in a 17 limit just intonation tuning, I believe). I believe the neck does not taper. All 3 of the courses (a course means a single string, or a pair of strings that are fretted together like on a 12 string guitar, or sometimes groups of 3 or more strings fretted together) are fretted.

The Indian Sitar has metal tie on frets. The frets are metal rods about 5 mm thick that are arch shaped. The two ends of each metal fret are notched to allow them to be tied onto the neck. The neck does not taper. I think gut and sometimes other materials are used to tie the metal frets onto the neck. Only two of the strings are fretted, but more strings are fretted when playing the related surbahar. The frets are tuned differently when playing different ragas (although some teachers say you should leave the frets where they are and play the different microtones by string bending).

There are a truly vast number of different mobile fretted instruments in the Indian tradition. I don't know that much about them, but there does seem to be more that one way of making moveable frets in this tradition (For example on a type of vina).

Personally, I am reluctant to use gut, or other materials tied in knots. I prefer the idea of nuts and bolts, screws and springs, but this maybe a ridiculous and unfounded prejudice of mine.

I am working towards having mobile frets on exchangeable guitar necks, so as to allow a particular pattern to be perfected and then kept.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Actually I am pursuing a different replaceable fretboard idea - involving a
> guitar like my 11 edo stick.
> And that is at the limit of my abilities.

Mark: In case in helps, here are links to pictures of my replaceable fretboard lyre guitars and bass lyre guitars:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.481044424255.260961.536589255&l=b320df7212
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.59375809255.84878.536589255&l=dd9d3bba6b
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.487985489255.265650.536589255&l=02b6a8f1e7

I personally like to have intonation adjustments that can be altered by hand without any tools (such as screw drivers and alan keys), but this may not be necessary depending on the design. The idea is to correct for fretboards with nuts or zero frets in slightly different places.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "ixlramp" <ixlramp@...> wrote:

> Pity that guitar necks are tapered, as there's a chance a tie might slip in one direction, and can't be slid to any point on the neck. It always strikes me as odd that guitars have had movable frets for 100s and probably 1000s of years and here we are struggling to acheive it. Some progress huh ...
>
> MatC
>

Mark: I'm researching mobile frets on Indian instruments. Sitar has tie on metal frets, apparently the Rudra Vina has "brass-fitted raised wooden frets are fixed on... ...with the help of wax."

Presumably you can heat up the wax to move a fret and then let it cool again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudra_vina

http://youtu.be/rEh2IUGFRZ8

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark.barnes3@...> wrote:
> Personally, I am reluctant to use gut, or other materials tied in knots. I prefer the idea of nuts and bolts, screws and springs

Yes me too. I like the idea of full width frets that can be somehow locked securely in position by turning a thumb screw, and loosened an optimum amount when sliding the fret.

It's good to know you're working on this.

MatC

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "ixlramp" <ixlramp@...> wrote:
>
> Good idea. I have been wondering if metal ties would work, problem is they're very thin, perhaps something could be attached to them to form a fret.
>
> http://www.cn-cableties.com/uploadpic/chart200891314734.jpg
>
> Pity that guitar necks are tapered, as there's a chance a tie might slip in one direction, and can't be slid to any point on the neck. It always strikes me as odd that guitars have had movable frets for 100s and probably 1000s of years and here we are struggling to acheive it. Some progress huh ...
>
> MatC
>

Mark: The following link has been posted here before, but I am impressed with it and I thought it might interest people. Personally I would prefer a system that does not need a hammer to adjust it, and which allows frets that stretch across all the strings to allow string bending.

http://youtu.be/MYK_PF9WTRE