Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770

called "10,9 loop ssnew sketch.mp3"

I've got a long way to go handling loops so that they make music. That seems to be an art in itself -- one I'm not particularly experienced with.

The self-similar structure need not produce only unisons or octaves. It can produce thirds, which sound, perhaps, better.

Should align if viewed with fixed-width font like Courier.

10, 9, 2, 8, 6, 1, 3, 7, 4, 5, x
9, 8, 1, 7, 5, 10, 2, 6, 3, 4, x
8, 7, 10, 6, 4, 9, 1, 5, 2, 3, x
7, 6, 9, 5, 3, 8, 10, 4, 1, 2, x
6, 5, 8, 4, 2, 7, 9, 3, 10, 1, x
5, 4, 7, 3, 1, 6, 8, 2, 9, 10, x
4, 3, 6, 2, 10, 5, 7, 1, 8, 9, x
3, 2, 5, 1, 9, 4, 6, 10, 7, 8, x
2, 1, 4, 10, 8, 3, 5, 9, 6, 7, x
1, 10, 3, 9, 7, 2, 4, 8, 5, 6, x
10, 9, 2, 8, 6, 1, 3, 7, 4, 5, x

is mapped to something like:

b3, a3, c#3, g#3, f#3, c3, d3, g3, e3, f3
a3, g#3, c3, g3, f3, b3, c#3, f#3, d3, e3
g#3, g3, b3, f#3, e3, a3, c3, f3, c#3, d3
g3, f#3, a3, f3, d3, g#3, b3, e3, c3, c#3
f#3, f3, g#3, e3, c#3, g3, a3, d3, b3, c3
f3, e3, g3, d3, c3, f#3, g#3, c#3, a3, b3
e3, d3, f#3, c#3, b3, f3, g3, c3, g#3, a3
d3, c#3, f3, c3, a3, e3, f#3, b3, g3, g#3
c#3, c3, e3, b3, g#3, d3, f3, a3, f#3, g3
c3, b3, d3, a3, g3, c#3, e3, g#3, f3, f#3

and these are freely selected in this sketch.

Tuning is 87EDO subset.

This is rough, but maybe I'm getting on the right track.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770

I'm getting a 404 on that.

Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer, and it
also worked.

http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770

I'm not sure what the problem is.

There's also today's little sketch in the same folder.

Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.

My feeling about this technique is that it's tricky and probably not as magical
as I'd once hoped, but it could work as part of a piece.

That is, I'm encouraged enough to keep working on it.

There always seems to be a trade-off between consonance and accuracy of
self-similarity. As you open up the series the contour is mapped to, it tends to
become more consonant and less accurately self-similar.

Also, with exceptions, the permutations of the series tend to not have whatever
property you thought was desirable, they tend to be too different.

The java program I'm using can be used to find self-similar series in EDOs other
than 12-per, by setting the modulus to whatever EDO you like. (I haven't tried
much of this yet myself.)

Anyone who's interested is welcome to it -- it's in the "apps" folder in the
same box. I'm not sure if it will run on anything but a Mac, though.

If anyone is interested, he/she probably would need some tutorial instruction,
which I've not written, yet. Just ask me.

Here's the menu. You pick a letter, set the parameter, and run the search.

M) modulus: 12
A) contour: 10,9,2,8,6,1,3,7,4,5
B) background: A
C) excluded background cells:
D) excluded pitches/pitch-classes within range: A#,B:4 G#,A#:4 G#,G:4
E) excluded cells within range: 0,1,2:5 0,3,6,9:4 0,2,5,7:4
F) fixed-position pitches/pitch-classes:
G) allowed pitch classes: C,C#,D,D#,E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#,B
J) min and max interval between consecutive contour items: 1,4
L) maximum interval between adjacent notes: 24
R) excluded intervals within range: 25:4 13:4 1:4
X) exclude unless followed by, within range:
S) minimum and maximum span: 6,23
N) number of solutions to print: 50
W) wrap: on

1) find and print solutions
2) quit

enter choice: 1
working...
D3,B2,F#1,A2,F2,D#1,A#1,G2,C2,E2
A3,F#3,C#2,E3,C3,A#1,F2,D3,G2,B2
B3,G#3,D#2,F#3,D3,C2,G2,E3,A2,C#3
found 3 solutions.

Silly program, these are just transpositions!

-c

________________________________
From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 11:13:03 AM
Subject: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, caleb morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770

I'm getting a 404 on that.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer, and it
> also worked.

It's working for me now, so whatever the problem was it was temporary.

> Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.

I think it has possibilies. I converted the aif file to flac if you want that, the point being that flac is still lossless, but a lot smaller, and is supported more widely in terms of playback. Aif was enough of a problem for some software (including an alleged "Swiss rmy Knife" coder and the Xilisoft coder) that I had to read it into audacity, export it as a wav, and then convert that.

Sorry for the hassle. I meant to upload the mp3 version, but I uploaded the
wrong file.

An mp3 version should be there, now.

One nearly foolproof way to adapt this technique is to map the contour to a good
ol' 7-pitch scale of some kind. Then the scales could slowly change over the
course of the piece.

Like so, to begin:

C#3,B2,G1,A2,E2,F1,A1,G2,B1,D2

(D melodic minor or A mixolydian b6)

The self-similarity is adequate, and the dissonance would be limited to diatonic
clashes, so they wouldn't be as harsh.

-c

________________________________
From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:28:38 PM
Subject: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer, and
>it
>
> also worked.

It's working for me now, so whatever the problem was it was temporary.

> Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.

I think it has possibilies. I converted the aif file to flac if you want that,
the point being that flac is still lossless, but a lot smaller, and is supported
more widely in terms of playback. Aif was enough of a problem for some software
(including an alleged "Swiss rmy Knife" coder and the Xilisoft coder) that I had
to read it into audacity, export it as a wav, and then convert that.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770

There's a sketch (around a minute thirty seconds) of this diatonic mapping idea.

Again, nothing too brilliant, but it's better than the other two.

I might become some sort of minimalist. One thing's for sure, working with
repetitive loops is not my usual thing. The experience is really increasing my
respect for Steve Reich and others.

-c

________________________________
From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:59:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

Sorry for the hassle. I meant to upload the mp3 version, but I uploaded the
wrong file.

An mp3 version should be there, now.

One nearly foolproof way to adapt this technique is to map the contour to a good

ol' 7-pitch scale of some kind. Then the scales could slowly change over the
course of the piece.

Like so, to begin:

C#3,B2,G1,A2,E2,F1,A1,G2,B1,D2

(D melodic minor or A mixolydian b6)

The self-similarity is adequate, and the dissonance would be limited to diatonic

clashes, so they wouldn't be as harsh.

-c

________________________________
From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:28:38 PM
Subject: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer, and
>
>it
>
> also worked.

It's working for me now, so whatever the problem was it was temporary.

> Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.

I think it has possibilies. I converted the aif file to flac if you want that,
the point being that flac is still lossless, but a lot smaller, and is supported

more widely in terms of playback. Aif was enough of a problem for some software
(including an alleged "Swiss rmy Knife" coder and the Xilisoft coder) that I had

to read it into audacity, export it as a wav, and then convert that.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I enjoyed the first one.

This one has distinct echos of Gentle Giant to me.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

>
>
> http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770
>
> There's a sketch (around a minute thirty seconds) of this diatonic mapping
> idea.
>
> Again, nothing too brilliant, but it's better than the other two.
>
> I might become some sort of minimalist. One thing's for sure, working with
> repetitive loops is not my usual thing. The experience is really increasing
> my
> respect for Steve Reich and others.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:59:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
>
> Sorry for the hassle. I meant to upload the mp3 version, but I uploaded the
>
> wrong file.
>
> An mp3 version should be there, now.
>
> One nearly foolproof way to adapt this technique is to map the contour to a
> good
>
> ol' 7-pitch scale of some kind. Then the scales could slowly change over
> the
> course of the piece.
>
> Like so, to begin:
>
> C#3,B2,G1,A2,E2,F1,A1,G2,B1,D2
>
> (D melodic minor or A mixolydian b6)
>
> The self-similarity is adequate, and the dissonance would be limited to
> diatonic
>
> clashes, so they wouldn't be as harsh.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:28:38 PM
> Subject: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer,
> and
> >
> >it
> >
> > also worked.
>
> It's working for me now, so whatever the problem was it was temporary.
>
> > Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.
>
> I think it has possibilies. I converted the aif file to flac if you want
> that,
> the point being that flac is still lossless, but a lot smaller, and is
> supported
>
> more widely in terms of playback. Aif was enough of a problem for some
> software
> (including an alleged "Swiss rmy Knife" coder and the Xilisoft coder) that
> I had
>
> to read it into audacity, export it as a wav, and then convert that.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, that's the only one so far that sounds like it's on the right track.

I very much like the sound of changes, as opposed to staying on the same scale
all the time, so now I'm going to experiment with some designs where I keep
using 7-note scales (or the occasional octatonic scale) but they change a little
more rapidly.

I think, in the back of my mind, that I was hoping that these pieces would sort
of write themselves, as did my piano pieces. But that doesn't seem to be the
case. It seems I have to find myself a different style from ones I've tried
before.

Thanks for the listen. I did hear Gentle Giant back in the 70's, I think.

Hey, can anyone point me to any good (free) sample libraries?

Oh, and a question for any Ethno 2 users: I find the way the samples are only
assigned to a (very) limited number of keys to be frustrating and inadequate. Is
there a way to tweak these instruments? (Of course, I could read the manual, but
I was curious if anyone has already done it. No use going down a blind alley.)

Caleb

________________________________
From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 22, 2011 5:37:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

I enjoyed the first one.

This one has distinct echos of Gentle Giant to me.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

>
>
> http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770
>
> There's a sketch (around a minute thirty seconds) of this diatonic mapping
> idea.
>
> Again, nothing too brilliant, but it's better than the other two.
>
> I might become some sort of minimalist. One thing's for sure, working with
> repetitive loops is not my usual thing. The experience is really increasing
> my
> respect for Steve Reich and others.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:59:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
>
> Sorry for the hassle. I meant to upload the mp3 version, but I uploaded the
>
> wrong file.
>
> An mp3 version should be there, now.
>
> One nearly foolproof way to adapt this technique is to map the contour to a
> good
>
> ol' 7-pitch scale of some kind. Then the scales could slowly change over
> the
> course of the piece.
>
> Like so, to begin:
>
> C#3,B2,G1,A2,E2,F1,A1,G2,B1,D2
>
> (D melodic minor or A mixolydian b6)
>
> The self-similarity is adequate, and the dissonance would be limited to
> diatonic
>
> clashes, so they wouldn't be as harsh.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:28:38 PM
> Subject: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer,
> and
> >
> >it
> >
> > also worked.
>
> It's working for me now, so whatever the problem was it was temporary.
>
> > Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.
>
> I think it has possibilies. I converted the aif file to flac if you want
> that,
> the point being that flac is still lossless, but a lot smaller, and is
> supported
>
> more widely in terms of playback. Aif was enough of a problem for some
> software
> (including an alleged "Swiss rmy Knife" coder and the Xilisoft coder) that
> I had
>
> to read it into audacity, export it as a wav, and then convert that.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caleb,

The best I can do for free sample libraries is a couple gigs of soundfonts at my clones.soonlabel.com/public site. Look under sfonts or something like that. Timidity uses soundfonts and there are free soundfont vsti programs around.

Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
Sender: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 13:42:20
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

Yeah, that's the only one so far that sounds like it's on the right track.

I very much like the sound of changes, as opposed to staying on the same scale
all the time, so now I'm going to experiment with some designs where I keep
using 7-note scales (or the occasional octatonic scale) but they change a little
more rapidly.

I think, in the back of my mind, that I was hoping that these pieces would sort
of write themselves, as did my piano pieces. But that doesn't seem to be the
case. It seems I have to find myself a different style from ones I've tried
before.

Thanks for the listen. I did hear Gentle Giant back in the 70's, I think.

Hey, can anyone point me to any good (free) sample libraries?

Oh, and a question for any Ethno 2 users: I find the way the samples are only
assigned to a (very) limited number of keys to be frustrating and inadequate. Is
there a way to tweak these instruments? (Of course, I could read the manual, but
I was curious if anyone has already done it. No use going down a blind alley.)

Caleb

________________________________
From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 22, 2011 5:37:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

I enjoyed the first one.

This one has distinct echos of Gentle Giant to me.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:

>
>
> http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770
>
> There's a sketch (around a minute thirty seconds) of this diatonic mapping
> idea.
>
> Again, nothing too brilliant, but it's better than the other two.
>
> I might become some sort of minimalist. One thing's for sure, working with
> repetitive loops is not my usual thing. The experience is really increasing
> my
> respect for Steve Reich and others.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:59:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
>
> Sorry for the hassle. I meant to upload the mp3 version, but I uploaded the
>
> wrong file.
>
> An mp3 version should be there, now.
>
> One nearly foolproof way to adapt this technique is to map the contour to a
> good
>
> ol' 7-pitch scale of some kind. Then the scales could slowly change over
> the
> course of the piece.
>
> Like so, to begin:
>
> C#3,B2,G1,A2,E2,F1,A1,G2,B1,D2
>
> (D melodic minor or A mixolydian b6)
>
> The self-similarity is adequate, and the dissonance would be limited to
> diatonic
>
> clashes, so they wouldn't be as harsh.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:28:38 PM
> Subject: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer,
> and
> >
> >it
> >
> > also worked.
>
> It's working for me now, so whatever the problem was it was temporary.
>
> > Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.
>
> I think it has possibilies. I converted the aif file to flac if you want
> that,
> the point being that flac is still lossless, but a lot smaller, and is
> supported
>
> more widely in terms of playback. Aif was enough of a problem for some
> software
> (including an alleged "Swiss rmy Knife" coder and the Xilisoft coder) that
> I had
>
> to read it into audacity, export it as a wav, and then convert that.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks, Chris.

-c

________________________________
From: "chrisvaisvil@gmail.com" <chrisvaisvil@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 23, 2011 6:47:27 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

Caleb,

The best I can do for free sample libraries is a couple gigs of soundfonts at my
clones.soonlabel.com/public site. Look under sfonts or something like that.
Timidity uses soundfonts and there are free soundfont vsti programs around.

Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
Sender: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 13:42:20
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

Yeah, that's the only one so far that sounds like it's on the right track.

I very much like the sound of changes, as opposed to staying on the same scale
all the time, so now I'm going to experiment with some designs where I keep
using 7-note scales (or the occasional octatonic scale) but they change a little

more rapidly.

I think, in the back of my mind, that I was hoping that these pieces would sort
of write themselves, as did my piano pieces. But that doesn't seem to be the
case. It seems I have to find myself a different style from ones I've tried
before.

Thanks for the listen. I did hear Gentle Giant back in the 70's, I think.

Hey, can anyone point me to any good (free) sample libraries?

Oh, and a question for any Ethno 2 users: I find the way the samples are only
assigned to a (very) limited number of keys to be frustrating and inadequate.
Is

there a way to tweak these instruments? (Of course, I could read the manual,
but

I was curious if anyone has already done it. No use going down a blind alley.)

Caleb

________________________________
From: Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 22, 2011 5:37:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)

I enjoyed the first one.

This one has distinct echos of Gentle Giant to me.

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> http://www.box.net/shared/m37jhti1og#/shared/m37jhti1og/1/29019770
>
> There's a sketch (around a minute thirty seconds) of this diatonic mapping
> idea.
>
> Again, nothing too brilliant, but it's better than the other two.
>
> I might become some sort of minimalist. One thing's for sure, working with
> repetitive loops is not my usual thing. The experience is really increasing
> my
> respect for Steve Reich and others.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@yahoo.com>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:59:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
>
> Sorry for the hassle. I meant to upload the mp3 version, but I uploaded the
>
> wrong file.
>
> An mp3 version should be there, now.
>
> One nearly foolproof way to adapt this technique is to map the contour to a
> good
>
> ol' 7-pitch scale of some kind. Then the scales could slowly change over
> the
> course of the piece.
>
> Like so, to begin:
>
> C#3,B2,G1,A2,E2,F1,A1,G2,B1,D2
>
> (D melodic minor or A mixolydian b6)
>
> The self-similarity is adequate, and the dissonance would be limited to
> diatonic
>
> clashes, so they wouldn't be as harsh.
>
> -c
>
> ________________________________
> From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 1:28:38 PM
> Subject: [MMM] Re: Self-similar sketch (baby steps!)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. I just clicked on that, and it got me there. Tried another computer,
> and
> >
> >it
> >
> > also worked.
>
> It's working for me now, so whatever the problem was it was temporary.
>
> > Neither sketch is ready for prime time, though.
>
> I think it has possibilies. I converted the aif file to flac if you want
> that,
> the point being that flac is still lossless, but a lot smaller, and is
> supported
>
> more widely in terms of playback. Aif was enough of a problem for some
> software
> (including an alleged "Swiss rmy Knife" coder and the Xilisoft coder) that
> I had
>
> to read it into audacity, export it as a wav, and then convert that.
>
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>
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>
>
>

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