Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic More OT schtuff: Blues not "difficult"

Ok, folks, this is just my opinion(s) only, no offense meant, I'm just
simply trying to start a fun flame war, ok? ;)

For my part, I wouldn't necessarily call it (blues) easy (nothing is easy if
it's done well, it might only appear easy to those on the outside of it, or
it might be easy once mastery has been achieved) but I would say I largely
have lost whatever interest I may have had in it, perhaps because it may in
fact be very difficult to not sound horribly cliched in it.

And it's not because of the typical simple chord changes (although I must
say, they do bore me to tears by now, being honest, even in the hands of
whatever master player you wanna throw at me.) I think what bothers me are
the gestures and the cliched swagger. So maybe it's the meta-musical
cultural element. Proof--I could sit and listen to an Indian master Sarod
player like Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, however, for hours, and that's a drone, no
harmony at all apart from dyadic formations. That's "deep" stuff to me, and
cosmic and beautiful.... ditto most far-corners of the world ethnic folk
music.

OTOH, I don't find blues beautiful, or at all cosmic (not all music needs to
be, mind you); I find it to be what it typically is: music for people to get
drunk in a bar by, to vent their woes in a kind of crass catharsis ("my babe
done left me", "my man he don't love me, treat me o so mean", "woke up this
moanin, needin in my bones", etc. etc.)...maybe I object to a music whose
structure is defined lyrically by people who constantly complain about
things....(I know, I'm complaining about complainers, I'm one of them)...If
we talk drugs, blues is cigarettes, booze, cocaine. I've never tried coke, I
hate cigarettes, and dislike booze in general, except microbrews and good
wine occasionally. The whole "light a cigarette, put it on your guitar"
thing is a hilarious caricature! Metal/Hard rock guys do that too, I guess.
Slash and his Southern Comfort. Hard Drinking, street fightin', badass,
yadda yadda....

Let's talk about the names of the bluesmen, too: pick an ailment, add a
fruit, then a common president's last name. "Blind Lemon Jefferson"; "Pegleg
Apple Fillmore", "Deaf Strawberry Taft".

Okay, I stole that idea from a hilarious page:
http://www.outliermusic.com/jokes_rulesoftheblues.htm

I might say that besides musical theater Broadway cheesy-type schmarm, blues
may be one of my least favorite genres. The possible exception is the way
Led Zeppelin does it: I haven't heard anyone wail like Plant and Page do in
"Since I've been lovin you". But that's a rare exception. And I don't often
feel a hankering to listen to even that.

Good funk, on the other hand---wow do I love that. I'm ready to jump around
to James Brown anytime. And I just discovered a great Italian funk band,
Calibro 35. I really like their stuff.

Alright, you can throw the fruit at me now, Neil, but I did give you a
disclaimer at the top ;)

AKJ

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Neil Haverstick <microstick@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Hey Chris...sensa humor here...just saw your line that "blues is not the
> most difficult genre around..." Wow...astonishing indeed. This shows me that
> you really don't know very much about blues at all....and no problem with
> that either, but didn't wanna let this slide by...because you might
> influence others to think the same thing, and that would be wrong. I'm
> betting, actually, that most folks on the tuning lists have very little, if
> any, experience with blues, folk, bluegrass, country, western swing, cowboy
> music, rockabilly, funk, R&B, etc...the more "rootsy" styles of American
> music...that's the impression I've gotten from being on these lists for the
> last 15 years or so. None of these styles are "easy," whatever that means;
> and blues least of all. After 45 years of playing all of these styles, to
> one degree of proficiency or another, I have a deep love and respect for all
> of them, and am still learning more about them.
>
> Any style of music has it's own language that must be mastered...and in
> folk arts, it can be the teensiest of things...and it al starts with the
> rhythms. When it comes to blues, first...which style are you talking about?
> Delta? Chicago? West Coast? Texas? Piedmont? Big Band? Bebop? Fingerstyle?
> Lotsa variety in blues, or any of the above mentioned American styles...and
> each one has it's own "grease," if you will. But...over the years, I've seen
> an attitude from folks that don't play or understand blues, that it is
> easy...perhaps because of the deceptive simplicity of it's structure...a
> zillion light years from true. Chris...you're a sincere cat, and good
> musician...but, if we ever get a chance to hang, we can do what the Chicago
> guys used to do, have a little "head cuttin" session, and see how easy blues
> is then...hell, we can even do some blues in 19 or 36 if you want..and
> Catler is doing blues in his 64 tone system, and getting great reviews.
> Don't know why you think it's easy, cause it's far far from that...best from
> sunny Denver...Stickman www.microwstick.net
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.untwelve.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

I couldn't resist copying the list...very funny:

1.Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning..."

2."I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, unless you
stick something nasty in the next line like, "I got a good woman, with
the meanest face in town."

3.The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it.
Then find something that rhymes... sort of: "Got a good woman with the
meanest face in town. Yes, I got a good woman with the meanest face in
town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher, and she weigh 500 pound."

4.The Blues is not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a
ditch--ain't no way out.

5.Blues cars: Chevys, Fords, Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues
don't travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues
transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft
and company motor pools ain't even in the running. Walkin' plays a
major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die.

6.Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet. Adults
sing the Blues. In Blues, "adulthood" means being old enough to get
the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.

7.Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place
in Canada. Hard times in Minneapolis or Seattle is probably just
clinical depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City are still the
best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place
that don't get rain.

8.A man with male pattern baldness ain't the blues. A woman with male
pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cause you were skiing is not
the blues. Breaking your leg 'cause a alligator be chompin' on it is.

9.You can't have no Blues in a office or a shopping mall. The lighting
is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster.

10.Good places for the Blues:
a. Highway
b. Jailhouse
c. An empty bed
d. Bottom of a whiskey glass

11.Bad places for the Blues:
a. Nordstrom's
b. Gallery openings
c. Ivy league institutions
d. Golf courses

12.No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, 'less you
happen to be a old ethnic person, and you slept in it.

13.You have the right to sing the Blues if:
a. You older than dirt
b. You blind
c. You shot a man in Memphis
d. You can't be satisfied

14.You don't have the right to sing the Blues if:
a. You have all your teeth
b. You were once blind but now can see
c. The man in Memphis lived
d. You have a pension fund

15.Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger
Woods cannot sing the blues. Sonny Liston could. Ugly white people
also got a leg up on the blues.

16.If you ask for water and your darlin' give you gasoline, it's the Blues

17.Other acceptable Blues beverages are:
a. Cheap wine
b. Whiskey or bourbon
c. Muddy water
d. Nasty black coffee

18.The following are NOT Blues beverages:
a. Perrier
b. Chardonnay
c. Snapple
d. Slim Fast

19.If death occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues
death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to
die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse and dying lonely on a
broke-down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you die during a
tennis match or while getting liposuction.

20.Some Blues names for women:
a. Sadie
b. Big Mama
c. Bessie
d. Fat River Dumpling

21.Some Blues names for men:
a. Joe
b. Willie
c. Little Willie
d. Big Willie

22.Persons with names like Michelle, Amber, Debbie, and Heather can't
sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

23.Make your own Blues name Starter Kit: a. name of physical infirmity
(Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.) b. first name (see above) plus name of
fruit (Lemon, Lime, Melon, Kiwi, etc.) c. last name of President
(Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.) For example: Blind Lime
Jefferson, Jackleg Lemon Johnson or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc. (Well,
maybe not "Kiwi.")

24.I don't care how tragic your life: if you own even one computer,
you cannot sing the blues.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Aaron Krister Johnson
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, folks, this is just my opinion(s) only, no offense meant, I'm just simply trying to start a fun flame war, ok? ;)
> For my part, I wouldn't necessarily call it (blues) easy (nothing is easy if it's done well, it might only appear easy to those on the outside of it, or it might be easy once mastery has been achieved) but I would say I largely have lost whatever interest I may have had in it, perhaps because it may in fact be very difficult to not sound horribly cliched in it.
> And it's not because of the typical simple chord changes (although I must say, they do bore me to tears by now, being honest, even in the hands of whatever master player you wanna throw at me.) I think what bothers me are the gestures and the cliched swagger. So maybe it's the meta-musical cultural element. Proof--I could sit and listen to an Indian master Sarod player like Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, however, for hours, and that's a drone, no harmony at all apart from dyadic formations. That's "deep" stuff to me, and cosmic and beautiful.... ditto most far-corners of the world ethnic folk music.
> OTOH, I don't find blues beautiful, or at all cosmic (not all music needs to be, mind you); I find it to be what it typically is: music for people to get drunk in a bar by, to vent their woes in a kind of crass catharsis ("my babe done left me", "my man he don't love me, treat me o so mean", "woke up this moanin, needin in my bones", etc. etc.)...maybe I object to a music whose structure is defined lyrically by people who constantly complain about things....(I know, I'm complaining about complainers, I'm one of them)...If we talk drugs, blues is cigarettes, booze, cocaine. I've never tried coke, I hate cigarettes, and dislike booze in general, except microbrews and good wine occasionally. The whole "light a cigarette, put it on your guitar" thing is a hilarious caricature! Metal/Hard rock guys do that too, I guess. Slash and his Southern Comfort. Hard Drinking, street fightin', badass, yadda yadda....
> Let's talk about the names of the bluesmen, too: pick an ailment, add a fruit, then a common president's last name. "Blind Lemon Jefferson"; "Pegleg Apple Fillmore", "Deaf Strawberry Taft".
> Okay, I stole that idea from a hilarious page: http://www.outliermusic.com/jokes_rulesoftheblues.htm
> I might say that besides musical theater Broadway cheesy-type schmarm, blues may be one of my least favorite genres. The possible exception is the way Led Zeppelin does it: I haven't heard anyone wail like Plant and Page do in "Since I've been lovin you". But that's a rare exception. And I don't often feel a hankering to listen to even that.
> Good funk, on the other hand---wow do I love that. I'm ready to jump around to James Brown anytime. And I just discovered a great Italian funk band, Calibro 35. I really like their stuff.
>
> Alright, you can throw the fruit at me now, Neil, but I did give you a disclaimer at the top ;)
> AKJ
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Neil Haverstick <microstick@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Chris...sensa humor here...just saw your line that "blues is not the most difficult genre around..." Wow...astonishing indeed. This shows me that you really don't know very much about blues at all....and no problem with that either, but didn't wanna let this slide by...because you might influence others to think the same thing, and that would be wrong. I'm betting, actually, that most folks on the tuning lists have very little, if any, experience with blues, folk, bluegrass, country, western swing, cowboy music, rockabilly, funk, R&B, etc...the more "rootsy" styles of American music...that's the impression I've gotten from being on these lists for the last 15 years or so. None of these styles are "easy," whatever that means; and blues least of all. After 45 years of playing all of these styles, to one degree of proficiency or another, I have a deep love and respect for all of them, and am still learning more about them.
>>
>> Any style of music has it's own language that must be mastered...and in folk arts, it can be the teensiest of things...and it al starts with the rhythms. When it comes to blues, first...which style are you talking about? Delta? Chicago? West Coast? Texas? Piedmont? Big Band? Bebop? Fingerstyle? Lotsa variety in blues, or any of the above mentioned American styles...and each one has it's own "grease," if you will. But...over the years, I've seen an attitude from folks that don't play or understand blues, that it is easy...perhaps because of the deceptive simplicity of it's structure...a zillion light years from true. Chris...you're a sincere cat, and good musician...but, if we ever get a chance to hang, we can do what the Chicago guys used to do, have a little "head cuttin" session, and see how easy blues is then...hell, we can even do some blues in 19 or 36 if you want..and Catler is doing blues in his 64 tone system, and getting great reviews. Don't know why you think it's easy, cause it's far far from that...best from sunny Denver...Stickman www.microwstick.net
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.untwelve.org
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.untwelve.org

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

🔗cityoftheasleep <igliashon@...>

The thing with the blues is that either it's easy for you or it isn't. It's not music that comes from the head, so you have to feel it...and if you don't, you're not gonna fool anyone who actually knows the blues. But if you do feel it, it's as natural as breathing. I'm not a fan, mostly because I grew up in a small town with more blues bands than you can shake a stick at and cut my guitar-playing teeth jamming with more than a few of them. I can "feel" the blues no problem, in fact I'm an improv guy through and through--but I'd much rather apply that approach in a way outside pentatonic scales and I-IV-V progressions, and I can't relate to the subject matter of most blues lyrics. If you take away the basic blues formula, but keep the other stylistic traits--the rawness, the expressiveness, the "from-the-gut" emotiveness, that's when things get interesting. I will say that there are a few bluesmen whose playing has really wowed me on occasion, though--I heard a Stevie Ray Vaughan live recording once and he played one of the most polyrhythmic microtonal solos I've ever heard, really...dude was hitting all kinds of neutral intervals, playing quintuplets, septuplets, etc., as far out as anything Zappa ever did. Wish I could find that recording, it was seriously amazing.

-Igs

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, folks, this is just my opinion(s) only, no offense meant, I'm just
> simply trying to start a fun flame war, ok? ;)
>
> For my part, I wouldn't necessarily call it (blues) easy (nothing is easy if
> it's done well, it might only appear easy to those on the outside of it, or
> it might be easy once mastery has been achieved) but I would say I largely
> have lost whatever interest I may have had in it, perhaps because it may in
> fact be very difficult to not sound horribly cliched in it.
>
> And it's not because of the typical simple chord changes (although I must
> say, they do bore me to tears by now, being honest, even in the hands of
> whatever master player you wanna throw at me.) I think what bothers me are
> the gestures and the cliched swagger. So maybe it's the meta-musical
> cultural element. Proof--I could sit and listen to an Indian master Sarod
> player like Ustad Amjad Ali Khan, however, for hours, and that's a drone, no
> harmony at all apart from dyadic formations. That's "deep" stuff to me, and
> cosmic and beautiful.... ditto most far-corners of the world ethnic folk
> music.
>
> OTOH, I don't find blues beautiful, or at all cosmic (not all music needs to
> be, mind you); I find it to be what it typically is: music for people to get
> drunk in a bar by, to vent their woes in a kind of crass catharsis ("my babe
> done left me", "my man he don't love me, treat me o so mean", "woke up this
> moanin, needin in my bones", etc. etc.)...maybe I object to a music whose
> structure is defined lyrically by people who constantly complain about
> things....(I know, I'm complaining about complainers, I'm one of them)...If
> we talk drugs, blues is cigarettes, booze, cocaine. I've never tried coke, I
> hate cigarettes, and dislike booze in general, except microbrews and good
> wine occasionally. The whole "light a cigarette, put it on your guitar"
> thing is a hilarious caricature! Metal/Hard rock guys do that too, I guess.
> Slash and his Southern Comfort. Hard Drinking, street fightin', badass,
> yadda yadda....
>
> Let's talk about the names of the bluesmen, too: pick an ailment, add a
> fruit, then a common president's last name. "Blind Lemon Jefferson"; "Pegleg
> Apple Fillmore", "Deaf Strawberry Taft".
>
> Okay, I stole that idea from a hilarious page:
> http://www.outliermusic.com/jokes_rulesoftheblues.htm
>
> I might say that besides musical theater Broadway cheesy-type schmarm, blues
> may be one of my least favorite genres. The possible exception is the way
> Led Zeppelin does it: I haven't heard anyone wail like Plant and Page do in
> "Since I've been lovin you". But that's a rare exception. And I don't often
> feel a hankering to listen to even that.
>
> Good funk, on the other hand---wow do I love that. I'm ready to jump around
> to James Brown anytime. And I just discovered a great Italian funk band,
> Calibro 35. I really like their stuff.
>
> Alright, you can throw the fruit at me now, Neil, but I did give you a
> disclaimer at the top ;)
>
> AKJ
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Neil Haverstick <microstick@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey Chris...sensa humor here...just saw your line that "blues is not the
> > most difficult genre around..." Wow...astonishing indeed. This shows me that
> > you really don't know very much about blues at all....and no problem with
> > that either, but didn't wanna let this slide by...because you might
> > influence others to think the same thing, and that would be wrong. I'm
> > betting, actually, that most folks on the tuning lists have very little, if
> > any, experience with blues, folk, bluegrass, country, western swing, cowboy
> > music, rockabilly, funk, R&B, etc...the more "rootsy" styles of American
> > music...that's the impression I've gotten from being on these lists for the
> > last 15 years or so. None of these styles are "easy," whatever that means;
> > and blues least of all. After 45 years of playing all of these styles, to
> > one degree of proficiency or another, I have a deep love and respect for all
> > of them, and am still learning more about them.
> >
> > Any style of music has it's own language that must be mastered...and in
> > folk arts, it can be the teensiest of things...and it al starts with the
> > rhythms. When it comes to blues, first...which style are you talking about?
> > Delta? Chicago? West Coast? Texas? Piedmont? Big Band? Bebop? Fingerstyle?
> > Lotsa variety in blues, or any of the above mentioned American styles...and
> > each one has it's own "grease," if you will. But...over the years, I've seen
> > an attitude from folks that don't play or understand blues, that it is
> > easy...perhaps because of the deceptive simplicity of it's structure...a
> > zillion light years from true. Chris...you're a sincere cat, and good
> > musician...but, if we ever get a chance to hang, we can do what the Chicago
> > guys used to do, have a little "head cuttin" session, and see how easy blues
> > is then...hell, we can even do some blues in 19 or 36 if you want..and
> > Catler is doing blues in his 64 tone system, and getting great reviews.
> > Don't know why you think it's easy, cause it's far far from that...best from
> > sunny Denver...Stickman www.microwstick.net
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.untwelve.org
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

More OT schtuff: Blues not "difficult"

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

🔗cityoftheasleep <igliashon@...>

🔗genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>