Part 3 - Usable 18 edo guitar

As many of you know I bought a $50 Woods DW-15 acoustic dreadnought 12 note per octave guitar at Guitar Center, fret wire, and a fret saw.
After a couple days of work I made a usable 18 note per octave guitar.

Most of the details and lots of pictures are on my facebook page. Links to those pictures and playable demonstration pieces are here:
http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=659

I'm partial to the flippertronics piece.

Direct download:
acoustic guitar with loop station http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/part%203/daily20110401-18a-acoustic-looper.mp3
ole style metal http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/part%203/daily20110401-18b-metal.mp3
faux flippertronics http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/part%203/daily20110401-18c-flippertronics.mp3

If for some reason you want the entire package you can grab everything here:
http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/

A curious thought came to me a couple days ago. Why not reuse the 12 equal
slots? Why are we eradicating 12 equal slots in *every* case?

This was before I saw this monster at Ron Sword's site.

http://ninestring.org/index.php?topic=25.0

It is a guitar that combines 36 + 24 + 12 equal into regions. In my case I
was looking at the extra 12 equal frets in my 18 equal refret and thinking -
what would happen if I just popped in the additional frets? In theory you
could play both 12 equal *and* 18 equal and some Frankensteinian combination
of the two.

I'm sure it can't work for every tuning... but for some (non-24 edo) it
probably makes sense. And might be a really reasonable way to introduce
microtonality to a guitarist.

Also - I've been finding I like tuning my 18 edo guitar to 12 equal but
playing 18 equal frets. I have NO idea what the result should be called but
it sounds nice to me.

Chris

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 3:31 PM, christopherv <chrisvaisvil@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> As many of you know I bought a $50 Woods DW-15 acoustic dreadnought 12 note
> per octave guitar at Guitar Center, fret wire, and a fret saw.
> After a couple days of work I made a usable 18 note per octave guitar.
>
> Most of the details and lots of pictures are on my facebook page. Links to
> those pictures and playable demonstration pieces are here:
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=659
>
> I'm partial to the flippertronics piece.
>
> Direct download:
> acoustic guitar with loop station
> http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/part%203/daily20110401-18a-acoustic-looper.mp3
> ole style metal
> http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/part%203/daily20110401-18b-metal.mp3
> faux flippertronics
> http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/part%203/daily20110401-18c-flippertronics.mp3
>
> If for some reason you want the entire package you can grab everything
> here:
> http://micro.soonlabel.com/conversion_to_18_equal/
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> what would happen if I just popped in the additional frets? In theory you
> could play both 12 equal *and* 18 equal and some Frankensteinian combination
> of the two.

It's a cool idea, I hope you do it.

> And might be a really reasonable way to introduce
> microtonality to a guitarist.

I like this idea. Perhaps different colour frets for the micro frets? ... black nickel looks gorgeous.

> Also - I've been finding I like tuning my 18 edo guitar to 12 equal but
> playing 18 equal frets. I have NO idea what the result should be called but
> it sounds nice to me.

If it sounds good, use it :) Excellent craziness.
So you're tuned in a 12EDO tuning that is not part of 18EDO? EADGBE?

MatC

... also, when you tune to 18EDO, what are the intervals between the open strings in steps of 18EDO and in cents?

MatC

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> what would happen if I just popped in the additional frets? In theory you
> could play both 12 equal *and* 18 equal and some Frankensteinian combination
> of the two.

It's a cool idea, I hope you do it.

=> I am seriously considering it. I need to put on at least one more
18 edo fret anyway.

> And might be a really reasonable way to introduce
> microtonality to a guitarist.

I like this idea. Perhaps different colour frets for the micro frets?
... black nickel looks gorgeous.

=> for now a purple sharpie will do :-)

> Also - I've been finding I like tuning my 18 edo guitar to 12 equal but
> playing 18 equal frets. I have NO idea what the result should be called but
> it sounds nice to me.

If it sounds good, use it :) Excellent craziness.
So you're tuned in a 12EDO tuning that is not part of 18EDO? EADGBE?

Yes, standard guitar tuning. I'm still playing with the best way to
tune the guitar. And I was serious about fret placement - it is not
that terrible to be off by a little bit - think of playing a piano a
bit out of tune. There are 2 alternate 18 edo tunings - one where the
top E is a 7th - like interval from the bottom E and another where
they are the same. Then there is the devil may care standard guitar
tuning.

>
> ... also, when you tune to 18EDO, what are the intervals between the open strings in steps of 18EDO and in cents?
>

I will get that for you. Tonight I'm working on the velcro adjustable
fret guitar - stick. I just cut 18 1/4" square dowel fret holders. I'm
deciding if I want to install the frets I ripped out of my refretted
guitars or just glue pieces of 0.055 steel wire and be done with it.
For frets I'll need to but slots for the fret wire and that is all by
hand.

Also I learned from a past mistake - I have an adjustable bridge this
time around though I think the room left on the other end will
necessitate zither pins and not guitar tuners.

Chris

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> In theory you
> could play both 12 equal *and* 18 equal and some Frankensteinian combination
> of the two.

The combination is 36 EDO.

> Also - I've been finding I like tuning my 18 edo guitar to 12 equal but
> playing 18 equal frets. I have NO idea what the result should be called

If you're tuned 12EDO EADGBE, this is also 36EDO. What you're doing is double 18-chromatic tuning, 2 18EDO chromatic scales with 1 shifted by 33 cents (half an 18EDO step) to achieve 36EDO. Exactly the same way I achieve 24EDO on a 12EDO guitar.

MatC

Hi Mat,

That all makes sense. And I think I will do the 36 edo by adding the few
frets needed.

Is there any other tuning combination with 12 that makes sense?

Chris

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 8:17 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
> wrote:
> > In theory you
> > could play both 12 equal *and* 18 equal and some Frankensteinian
> combination
> > of the two.
>
> The combination is 36 EDO.
>
>
> > Also - I've been finding I like tuning my 18 edo guitar to 12 equal but
> > playing 18 equal frets. I have NO idea what the result should be called
>
> If you're tuned 12EDO EADGBE, this is also 36EDO. What you're doing is
> double 18-chromatic tuning, 2 18EDO chromatic scales with 1 shifted by 33
> cents (half an 18EDO step) to achieve 36EDO. Exactly the same way I achieve
> 24EDO on a 12EDO guitar.
>
> MatC
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "ixlramp" <ixlramp@...> wrote:
> ... also, when you tune to 18EDO, what are the intervals between the open strings in steps of 18EDO and in cents?

Ah sorry I don't need it in cents, I found Jeff's useful page:
http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/octave.html

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> Is there any other tuning combination with 12 that makes sense?

Do you mean another EDO that contains 12EDO? ... 24EDO.

Matc

no, I meant like lets say for argument 16 edo.

What I'm after is not two tuning systems that mesh - but an overlay
microtonal tuning that will not interfere with the stock 12 edo fret slots.

In other words I want my cake and to eat it too. I can still play 12 edo if
I want - or play whatever the overlay microtonal tuning is. It will of
course be harder to navigate but that is the lot of a microtonal guitarist
anyway. I wonder if I can find a way to explor this with a computer program.
Obviously I can do it by hand on graph paper. Hmmm... Yeah - an excel graph
should work.

It would be really cool if I could incorporate my 12th root of Phi tuning
into a 12 edo fretting.

Chris

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 9:20 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "ixlramp" <ixlramp@...> wrote:
> > ... also, when you tune to 18EDO, what are the intervals between the open
> strings in steps of 18EDO and in cents?
>
> Ah sorry I don't need it in cents, I found Jeff's useful page:
> http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/octave.html
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
> wrote:
> > Is there any other tuning combination with 12 that makes sense?
>
> Do you mean another EDO that contains 12EDO? ... 24EDO.
>
> Matc
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How about using:

http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/

Entering the tones of both EDOs and looking at the generated image for close frets?

MatC

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> What I'm after is not two tuning systems that mesh - but an overlay
> microtonal tuning that will not interfere with the stock 12 edo fret slots.

such a tool!!!

Thanks!

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:16 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:

>
>
> How about using:
>
> http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fretfind2d/
>
> Entering the tones of both EDOs and looking at the generated image for
> close frets?
>
> MatC
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
> wrote:
> > What I'm after is not two tuning systems that mesh - but an overlay
> > microtonal tuning that will not interfere with the stock 12 edo fret
> slots.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh I thought you knew about FretFind2D already.

Just thought of an easier way ... how about reading through the cents values of each EDO here:

http://www.nonoctave.com/tuning/octave.html

It easy to see how close the cents values get to 100, 200, 300 .. etc.

MatC

I prefer this version:

http://cigarboxguitars.com/fretfind/standard.php

When you 'submit' it creates an image that can be saved easily.
Here's one of my crazy fretboards:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/parramatta/partch43a_11s_MS_tertian_fretboard_horiz.png

MatC