Cantonese Bagatelle (Ohio, that is)

I finished the ditty that I was working on with the Canton pentacircle-tempered scale Gene posted a while back. ("Canton" is named after the city in Ohio, by the way, not the one in China.) I don't hear people talk much about what their methods for composing are, so I figured I'd write this up. The write-up is to focus my own thoughts as much as anything, so feel free to ignore this whole thing. :) But maybe there's a n00b or two out there who might find this interesting.

I used Lilypond to generate the score and a 12-TET MIDI file, and Scala to retune that.

Here are my files:

MIDI: http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/cantonese-tuned.mid
Lilypond: http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/cantonese.ly
PDF score: http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/cantonese.pdf

I hate the MIDI rendering, and would really prefer that the main melody be a violin and the harmony be something reedy, like an English horn. But I got what I got.

-----
The scale
-----

Here's the original "Canton" scale:

! canton.scl
A 2.3.11/7.13/7 subgroup scale
12
!
14/13
9/8
13/11
14/11
4/3
39/28
3/2
11/7
22/13
16/9
13/7
2/1

...and here's the tempered version.

! cantonpenta.scl
Canton scale in 13-limit pentacircle (351/350 and 364/363) temperament, 271et
12
!
128.41328
208.11808
287.82288
416.23616
495.94096
575.64576
704.05904
783.76384
912.17712
991.88192
1071.58672
1200.00000

For scoring, it was convenient to label these as if 0 cents were C, and the rest of the names went up just like in 12-TET.

-----
Analysis phase
-----

I was attracted to this scale just because it sounded good when I played with it. I have a throwaway Csound file I use to test out some scales, just to get a feel for how some of the notes interact, and I think the 13/11 m3 and 14/11 M3 are pretty cool. I don't like the 435-cent septimal M3 much, but this 416-cent 11-limit M3 sounds pretty good. The 288-cent m3 is a little less dark than the 266-cent septimal m3, but still not as perky as the 5-limit m3. (My ears have clearly been corrupted by 12-TET: They definitely think a pure 6/5 sounds almost happy.) In fact, playing with the scale made me think that I should try an all-minor scale with a choice of 7/6, 13/11, or 6/5 minor thirds in it for each chord I'm targeting. But I digress.

The tempered scale makes a 13/11 m3 + a 14/11 M3 add up to a perfect fifth (just slightly sharp at 704 cents), and gives a lot more modes of the scale that have a P5 in them. I decided to work in C minor, so my main chord is 0-288-704 cents, or approximately 22:26:33.

It was interesting for me to see that in the original scale, the m3 of the iv and v chords would have been off: 5 cents flat on the iv chord, 5 cents sharp on the v chord. The tempering fixed that, and I could do a standard i-iv-v progression with consistent intervals.

I wasn't only interested in minor chords; I thought I might use a harmonic minor equivalent, or i-iv-V progression, and the possibility of using other major chords interested me as well. In the just version, there were several different flavors of M3, depending on which root note you chose. For example, the IV chord would be 33/26 instead of 14/11, or about four cents flat; the V chord would be 26/21, or 370 cents. The tempering also helped that out, giving me either 416-cent M3s to approximate the 14/11, or 368-cent M3s on the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 8th degrees of the scale (i.e., the Db, D, E, and G major chords). Since those are fully 18 cents flat of a 5/4, and 32 cents flat of a 12-TET M3, I figured they could add some microtonal character to the piece if I chose to use them.

In short, by just analyzing the heck out of the differences between the just and tempered versions of the scale, I could see a lot about what benefits the tempering gave me, and some of the quirks the scale had relative to 12-TET.

-----
Composition
-----

I started with the Cm chord I mentioned above, but didn't presume I'd stick to a traditional three-flat "diatonic" (albitonic?) version of the scale. To keep things simple, I chose a short motive based on the three notes of the tonic triad, figuring I could adapt it to different chords if I needed variation.

My first attempts at chord progressions were really just stumbling around. Type some notes into the .ly file, double-click, ctrl-shift-R in Scala to retune, double-click the MIDI file. Tedious. Makes you appreciate having a piano or a guitar around.

I decided I liked the Cm-Fm sound, just like in traditional harmony. The m7 in the Fm7 chord is 992 cents, so it's pretty close to what I'm used to in 7th chords anyway, so I used that in a "countermelody" (really just a fast arpeggio) when I played the F chord.

I was going to do a repeat and move to the v or V chord instead of the iv chord, and quickly realized that sounded too ordinary -- it was just an out-of-tune version of 12-TET. So I decided to use one of the other flattish M3 chords; where the melody stepped C-Eb-G and a half-step up to Ab, I could make it go C-Eb-G and a half-step down to F# instead, which is the 368-cent M3 of the D chord (i.e., this is approximately 42:52:63). I like having the three notes, F#, G, Ab, all prominent in the melody at various points. Weird enough to be not-really-12, not so weird that it sounds like I'm hitting wrong notes.

That's a little remarkable when I think about it. I'm 33% down from where I "should" be in 12-TET, and I don't feel like I'm hitting wrong notes. Cool.

Also worth noting: The II chord would have sounded slightly different from the other chords if not for the tempering, because in the just scale it had a slightly sharp fifth (707 cents).

Anyway: If I'm at the II, it should sound reasonable to go II-v-i, right? Miracles, it does.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

But at the end of the repeat, use II-V-i instead, because I want to transition to a new section.

Only, since this is a new section, go to VI (Ab major) instead of i. Then use a traditional two-step move down to iv (Fm), again to Dm, then to G: VI-iv-ii-V. Repeat. Close on the i, declare victory.

-----
Conclusion
-----

This was an experiment that generated about 40 seconds of music, and I'm wondering if it isn't too repetitive as it is. :) That said, it showed me how important tempering is, and specifically regular tempering. It led me to see how to use a 13-limit scale in a way that didn't sound like I was doing something wacky. I guess one could say that it let me be boring in the 13-limit. :)

What was remarkable about all of this is how similar it seemed to composing in 12-TET. I'm not a composer, but the rules I tried all worked. That actually led me to feel like I wasn't "composing microtonally", even though I was using notes up to 28 cents off of 12-TET. The character of the sound is different, though, so I suppose I shouldn't worry about it too much.

That's it for now!

Regards,
Jake

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>
> I finished the ditty that I was working on with the Canton
> pentacircle-tempered scale Gene posted a while back. ("Canton" is named
> after the city in Ohio, by the way, not the one in China.)

Thanks! I love it. It's short, but that means it doesn't wear out its welcome.

> I hate the MIDI rendering, and would really prefer that the main melody
> be a violin and the harmony be something reedy, like an English horn.
> But I got what I got.

I could edit the midi file to change the instruments if you like.

Gene,

Thanks for the listen, the comment, and the scales in the first place. :)

I could change the instruments in the MIDI file, but the computer rendering of those sounds is awful. The piccolo sound keeps things a little cleaner and more listenable. Eventually I'll install Ruby, get MIDI2CS working, and render the thing using a proper soundfont. I used to use Audio Compositor for that, but I lost the license and I'm not buying it a second time.

Regards,
Jake

Jake,

I'll be glad to render this for you in Garritan GPO with the scala file you
have posted.
Hang on...

Chris

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 11:19 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...>wrote:

>
>
> I finished the ditty that I was working on with the Canton
> pentacircle-tempered scale Gene posted a while back. ("Canton" is named
> after the city in Ohio, by the way, not the one in China.) I don't hear
> people talk much about what their methods for composing are, so I
> figured I'd write this up. The write-up is to focus my own thoughts as
> much as anything, so feel free to ignore this whole thing. :) But maybe
> there's a n00b or two out there who might find this interesting.
>
> I used Lilypond to generate the score and a 12-TET MIDI file, and Scala
> to retune that.
>
> Here are my files:
>
> MIDI: http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/cantonese-tuned.mid
> Lilypond: http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/cantonese.ly
> PDF score: http://www.freivald.org/~jake/documents/cantonese.pdf
>
> I hate the MIDI rendering, and would really prefer that the main melody
> be a violin and the harmony be something reedy, like an English horn.
> But I got what I got.
>
> -
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris, that's a nice offer! Do you need the original MIDI file, or the
Scala pitch-bent one?

Thanks,
Jake

> Jake,
>
> I'll be glad to render this for you in Garritan GPO with the scala
> file you
> have posted.
> Hang on...
>
> Chris
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The original midi file would be great to have. It seems you linked to the
tuned midi file and that is not playing nice.

Chris

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...>wrote:

>
>
> Chris, that's a nice offer! Do you need the original MIDI file, or the
> Scala pitch-bent one?
>
> Thanks,
> Jake
>
>
> > Jake,
> >
> > I'll be glad to render this for you in Garritan GPO with the scala
> > file you
> > have posted.
> > Hang on...
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok, here is what I come up with using the tuned midi file and Kontakt.

It is viola and harpsichord for technical reasons like selecting the wrong
solo string instrument :-)

http://micro.soonlabel.com/jake_freivald/canton-viola-harpsichord.mp3

I got to say this is a lovely piece.

Scala tossed all of the retuning information into a separate midi track and
that is one issue causing me problems. The other issue is that the midi file
wants to set the volume very low. Gene sent me a midi file last night and it
too had a great deal of expression information that simply drove Kontakt
crazy.

Chris

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>wrote:

> The original midi file would be great to have. It seems you linked to the
> tuned midi file and that is not playing nice.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Chris, that's a nice offer! Do you need the original MIDI file, or the
>> Scala pitch-bent one?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jake
>>
>>
>> > Jake,
>> >
>> > I'll be glad to render this for you in Garritan GPO with the scala
>> > file you
>> > have posted.
>> > Hang on...
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:

> I used
> to use Audio Compositor for that, but I lost the license and I'm not
> buying it a second time.

I think TiMidity is better than AC anyway, and it's freeware.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

> http://micro.soonlabel.com/jake_freivald/canton-viola-harpsichord.mp3

Is this a permanent address I can link to for the Xenwiki?

yes

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 3:12 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:

http://micro.soonlabel.com/jake_freivald/canton-viola-harpsichord.mp3

Is this a permanent address I can link to for the Xenwiki?

Yes this is beautiful music, thanks for rendering this so I can hear it. The scale is delicious too.

MatC

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> Ok, here is what I come up with using the tuned midi file and Kontakt.

Hey,

Timidity is great, accepts it's own tuning table format file, etc. but one thing that's nice about using Csound with soundfonts/samples is that it has added flexibility--you can program a formula using the old sf* opcodes that allow you to output a given pitch with an arbitrary given MIDI sample number, which avoids the problems one might run into with different keyboard mappings, for example, having 41 notes per octave....on most software, one would start getting unrealistically, stupidly mapped samples just because such and such a MIDI key number called it. With Csound, one can avoid things, plus have added modularity of modulations schemes, etc.

Now, if I can only figure out how to do an ultra-convincing legato sampled instrument....

AKJ

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@> wrote:
>
> > I used
> > to use Audio Compositor for that, but I lost the license and I'm not
> > buying it a second time.
>
> I think TiMidity is better than AC anyway, and it's freeware.
>

Aaron,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "akjmicro" <aaron@...> wrote:
> Now, if I can only figure out how to do an ultra-convincing legato sampled instrument....

You owe me for a keyboard: I just sprayed Irish Breakfast tea all over mine.

:D

Thanks very much to Chris for rendering it.

Also, thanks to Gene. First for the scale and his patience in
explaining things to me. Second, for the reminder about Timidity. I
had tried to get Timidity to work once before, but couldn't. I tried
again yesterday and finally got it working -- and I am so much
happier! Chris is, too, since he won't have me bugging him... :)

Finally, thanks to Ixlramp, Chris, and Gene for the listen and comments!

Regards,
Jake

On 3/27/11, genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>
>> I used
>> to use Audio Compositor for that, but I lost the license and I'm not
>> buying it a second time.
>
> I think TiMidity is better than AC anyway, and it's freeware.
>
>

Hehe, you were tickled then?

On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:00 PM, jonszanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

> Aaron,
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "akjmicro" <aaron@...> wrote:
> > Now, if I can only figure out how to do an ultra-convincing legato
> sampled instrument....
>
> You owe me for a keyboard: I just sprayed Irish Breakfast tea all over
> mine.
>
>
> :D
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.untwelve.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]