For Bobro

Hi all,

I'm cross-posting this to the 2 major tuning lists on yahoo (MMM, tuning) as
well as the csound list because I thought it might be of interest to both
audiences. Sorry in advance for the duplicates for those who subscribe to
both....

This is a total egghead piece. I wouldn't try to use it to seduce any ladies
or anything. It does seem to create a distinct mood that I find pleasant
anyway. We've been discussing serialism on the MakeMicroMusic list a bit,
and how he avoidance of tonal harmony might be better served by EDOs like 11
or 13, etc. that have poor representations of the lower, stronger overtones.
Gene Ward Smith advocated for 14edo by in essence daring someone to write
something serial-ish for it.

I've never been all that fond of (most) serially composed music, though I've
some colleagues who have done real well by it, but it was good fun to give
it my (pseudo) first shot. Technically, it's not at all strict serialism in
this piece, but more a technique of using an 'abstract row' of motivic
material as a recurrent ostinato (perhaps I'll try a stricter example later,
but onward....). I can say more if anyone's interested, but for now, those
that listen, I'd be curious what you hear...

I used my own 'microcsound' (article in Csound journal coming up soon,
hopefully...) which of course is a front-end for writing score-files in what
may be the most killer sound app of all time....so without further ado:

http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/for_bobro.mp3

Ok, folks, let's hear *your* quick and dirty neo-2nd Viennese experiments!

Best,
AKJ

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.untwelve.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for making this Aaron. Examining it in terms of serial composition, specifically Schoenbergian, I would say it sounds like you're trying to make the piece into 7 equal tones, specifically 7 quasi-diatonic tones in tertian structures, rather than all 14 equal tones, and then trying to sweep the leftovers under the rug.

However, the actual structural approach you made is audible and isn't serial, so we can put aside the criticism from the serial view.

The structural method you did is what I call intervallic palilogy, and I'd say it's the most recommended approach to using highly inharmonic and unfamiliar interval systems. So, that is very nice.

Illustrated in your piece is one reason to use a neologism in addition to saying something like "motivic repetition". In tunings other than the 12-tET, we often find "neutral" intervals. In 14 equal divisions of the octave we find these neutral intervals, and in your piece these intervals are prominent. Unlike major, minor, supramajor, and subminor intervals, the "neutral" intervals are palindromic as far as character.

There is no alteration of successive character when consecutive neutral intervals in a melody or row are played in retrograde. For example, C,E,G in a melodic iteration gives us a M3 followed by a m3, in retrograde form a m3 followed by a M3. C,Ed,G gives us a neutral third followed by a neutral third whether we're going forward or in reverse.

Nor does character alteration in the case of neutral intervals occur in relation to the octave compliment. The octave complement of a neutral third is a neutral sixth, a deeply different phenomenon from that of a major third whose octave compliment is a minor sixth, such contrasts being even stronger with subminor and supramajor intervals.

When a motif, set, trope, etc. contains neutral intervals, intervallic character persists at those points, throughout manipulation.

In 12-tET, only the octave, tritone and (perhaps arguably) the fifth have this palindromic nature of character. In 14 equal divisions of the octave, we not only have these or similar, we have a neutral third/sixth.

At the same time, 14-edo, like other exotic interval systems, also sports subminor and supramajor intervals. These, as just mentioned, change character very strongly in manipulations of order and inversion against the octave.

So, in the case of 14-edo and interval systems with similar properties, retrograde iteration may have no effect on succession of character, or it may have radical effect on succession of character. The same is true of manipulations or pitch interactions resulting in octave compliments.

And of course, due to the fact that in such interval systems there isn't much in the way of anything major or minor, with their moderate contrast and balance, to begin with, the whole business is destined to hinge upon extremes of little contrast and of great contrast.

In the case of your piece Aaron, I find that the intervallic palilogy gives quite a peaceful feeling overall. Despite the quite strong inharmonicity of the tuning as a whole, the character of the intervals reiterated throughout establishes, overall, something more similar, in character, to concord than to discord. There are other ways to skin the cat of establishing concord in such inharmonic interval systems.

Well, more later. Can't keep a Mord-Sith waiting!

Thanks again for making the piece!

-Cuthbert Lobawad, Wizard of the Last Order

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm cross-posting this to the 2 major tuning lists on yahoo (MMM, tuning) as
> well as the csound list because I thought it might be of interest to both
> audiences. Sorry in advance for the duplicates for those who subscribe to
> both....
>
> This is a total egghead piece. I wouldn't try to use it to seduce any ladies
> or anything. It does seem to create a distinct mood that I find pleasant
> anyway. We've been discussing serialism on the MakeMicroMusic list a bit,
> and how he avoidance of tonal harmony might be better served by EDOs like 11
> or 13, etc. that have poor representations of the lower, stronger overtones.
> Gene Ward Smith advocated for 14edo by in essence daring someone to write
> something serial-ish for it.
>
> I've never been all that fond of (most) serially composed music, though I've
> some colleagues who have done real well by it, but it was good fun to give
> it my (pseudo) first shot. Technically, it's not at all strict serialism in
> this piece, but more a technique of using an 'abstract row' of motivic
> material as a recurrent ostinato (perhaps I'll try a stricter example later,
> but onward....). I can say more if anyone's interested, but for now, those
> that listen, I'd be curious what you hear...
>
> I used my own 'microcsound' (article in Csound journal coming up soon,
> hopefully...) which of course is a front-end for writing score-files in what
> may be the most killer sound app of all time....so without further ado:
>
> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/for_bobro.mp3
>
> Ok, folks, let's hear *your* quick and dirty neo-2nd Viennese experiments!
>
> Best,
> AKJ
>
> --
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.untwelve.org
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

nice analysis. a good read. thanks.

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 9:50 PM, lobawad <lobawad@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks for making this Aaron. Examining it in terms of serial composition, specifically Schoenbergian, I would say it sounds like you're trying to make the piece into 7 equal tones, specifically 7 quasi-diatonic tones in tertian structures, rather than all 14 equal tones, and then trying to sweep the leftovers under the rug.
>
<snip>

Thanks- these heavily inharmonic systems like 14 equal are really interesting and tons of fun to work in. I agree with Gene that they suck as temperaments, but I think they're great as systems of intervals for music making.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> nice analysis. a good read. thanks.
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 9:50 PM, lobawad <lobawad@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for making this Aaron. Examining it in terms of serial composition, specifically Schoenbergian, I would say it sounds like you're trying to make the piece into 7 equal tones, specifically 7 quasi-diatonic tones in tertian structures, rather than all 14 equal tones, and then trying to sweep the leftovers under the rug.
> >
> <snip>
>