DIY 11 edo stick

I made an instrument today in 11 edo.

All of the details, pictures and demo music are here:

http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=576

Just the music

http://micro.soonlabel.com/11-ET/daily20110317-11edostick.mp3

Have a great day!!

Chris

Nice! I am really looking forward to hearing this, and Neil's pieces of course (child sleeping at the moment). It's great that you are such a busy bee.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I made an instrument today in 11 edo.
>
> All of the details, pictures and demo music are here:
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=576
>
> Just the music
>
> http://micro.soonlabel.com/11-ET/daily20110317-11edostick.mp3
>
> Have a great day!!
>
> Chris
>

Wow, it's hard to keep up with all your projects and productions,
Chris.....pretty neat, this!

AKJ

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:21 PM, christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...>wrote:

> I made an instrument today in 11 edo.
>
> All of the details, pictures and demo music are here:
>
> http://chrisvaisvil.com/?p=576
>
> Just the music
>
> http://micro.soonlabel.com/11-ET/daily20110317-11edostick.mp3
>
> Have a great day!!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Aaron Krister Johnson
http://www.akjmusic.com
http://www.untwelve.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just had an idea for movable frets Chris. How about movable frets made from rectangular cross section dowel rod, and then fit a normal metal fret across the top of the dowel? Just a random idea ;)
MatC

That I think is an excellent idea.

Here are two other ideas I have been tossing around.

1. cut a slot down the center and attach the fret dowels with a bolt through
the slot held in place with a washer.
2. velcro. If velcro is not too squishy then problem solved. Velcro will
allow (to a point) arbitrary placement of an arbitrary number of frets.

I like your idea of using square dowels and putting fret wire on them. That
solves a lot of problems in both scenarios.

Of course, this would be a cruder instrument than a cheap fender squire -
however, it could be built, minus the pickup, for well under $50 and allow
for a huge amount of microtonal exploration. Conceivably, if the velcro idea
works out, we can start talking about JI fret placement. BTW, I bought 5'
of 3/4" Velcro today.

Chris

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:

>
>
> I just had an idea for movable frets Chris. How about movable frets made
> from rectangular cross section dowel rod, and then fit a normal metal fret
> across the top of the dowel? Just a random idea ;)
> MatC
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I fear velcro will be too squishy ... a fret needs to be firmly supported upon the neck of an instrument for good tone. Also the height of the frets will vary due to squish factor, causing incurable fretbuzz :(..

MatC

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> That I think is an excellent idea.
>
> Here are two other ideas I have been tossing around.
>
> 1. cut a slot down the center and attach the fret dowels with a bolt through
> the slot held in place with a washer.
> 2. velcro. If velcro is not too squishy then problem solved. Velcro will
> allow (to a point) arbitrary placement of an arbitrary number of frets.
>
> I like your idea of using square dowels and putting fret wire on them. That
> solves a lot of problems in both scenarios.
>
> Of course, this would be a cruder instrument than a cheap fender squire -
> however, it could be built, minus the pickup, for well under $50 and allow
> for a huge amount of microtonal exploration. Conceivably, if the velcro idea
> works out, we can start talking about JI fret placement. BTW, I bought 5'
> of 3/4" Velcro today.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I just had an idea for movable frets Chris. How about movable frets made
> > from rectangular cross section dowel rod, and then fit a normal metal fret
> > across the top of the dowel? Just a random idea ;)
> > MatC
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Further random thoughts .....

Probably a good idea if the movable wooden fret foundations are hardwood for a firm fret support. The structure would then be like a normal guitar, frets set into hardwood which is in turn mounted uopn the neck. Like movable segments of fretboard.

It seems ideal to be able to lock the frets into position. If they are easy to move they'll move when playing, if they're stiff they'll be a pain to retune.

MatC

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 11:37 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:
>
> Further random thoughts .....
>
> Probably a good idea if the movable wooden fret foundations are hardwood for a firm fret support. The structure would then be like a normal guitar, frets set into hardwood which is in turn mounted uopn the neck. Like movable segments of fretboard.
>
> It seems ideal to be able to lock the frets into position. If they are easy to move they'll move when playing, if they're stiff they'll be a pain to retune.
>
> MatC

What would really be ideal is to have some kind of clamp-like
contraption such that you can just stabilize the frets in temporarily
and then destabilize them. Not sure how it would work, but it would
require some means of putting pressure on the back of the neck to
drive the fret down. That might lead to its own fret buzzing problems,
but it's an interesting thought.

-Mike

Could a device like this capo (which is pictured upside down)
http://musicplug.me/shop/images/detailed/0/kyser_quick_change_capo.jpg

be what you are thinking about? It would be groovy if you could defret a
guitar and have the capo like device thin enough that with minimal set up
you could clamp on your re-fret of an arbitrary EDO

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>wrote:

>
>
> What would really be ideal is to have some kind of clamp-like
> contraption such that you can just stabilize the frets in temporarily
> and then destabilize them. Not sure how it would work, but it would
> require some means of putting pressure on the back of the neck to
> drive the fret down. That might lead to its own fret buzzing problems,
> but it's an interesting thought.
>
> -Mike
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I coincidentally found this on the Web this morning. I wasn't looking for anything like it, so call this serendipity... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYK_PF9WTRE

Regards,
Jake

This is an elegant solution - but a very expensive one unfortunately.

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...>wrote:

>
>
> I coincidentally found this on the Web this morning. I wasn't looking
> for anything like it, so call this serendipity... :)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYK_PF9WTRE
>
> Regards,
> Jake
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Exactly! Something like that - some kind of clamp-like contraption
that you could attach to a bunch of movable frets. That would be a
triumph here, it really would..

-Mike

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Could a device like this capo (which is pictured upside down)
> http://musicplug.me/shop/images/detailed/0/kyser_quick_change_capo.jpg
>
> be what you are thinking about? It would be groovy if you could defret a
> guitar and have the capo like device thin enough that with minimal set up
> you could clamp on your re-fret of an arbitrary EDO
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > What would really be ideal is to have some kind of clamp-like
> > contraption such that you can just stabilize the frets in temporarily
> > and then destabilize them. Not sure how it would work, but it would
> > require some means of putting pressure on the back of the neck to
> > drive the fret down. That might lead to its own fret buzzing problems,
> > but it's an interesting thought.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

I agree - however, whatever any of us would do would have to have
minimal manufacturing.

I'm sure there is a solution (no doubt many) to this end. My wife
Debbie laughingly said last night - I bet you wish you had taken
engineering instead of chemistry now :-) Actually she is right - but I
was scared enough about passing the math for chemists. On the other
hand I've been gaining more and more respect for engineers - it seems
there is a way to do almost anything you can dream of and engineers
design that dream into reality.

Chris

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@gmail.com> wrote:
> Exactly! Something like that - some kind of clamp-like contraption
> that you could attach to a bunch of movable frets. That would be a
> triumph here, it really would..
>
> -Mike
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Could a device like this capo (which is pictured upside down)
>> http://musicplug.me/shop/images/detailed/0/kyser_quick_change_capo.jpg
>>
>> be what you are thinking about? It would be groovy if you could defret a
>> guitar and have the capo like device thin enough that with minimal set up
>> you could clamp on your re-fret of an arbitrary EDO
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 4:10 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > What would really be ideal is to have some kind of clamp-like
>> > contraption such that you can just stabilize the frets in temporarily
>> > and then destabilize them. Not sure how it would work, but it would
>> > require some means of putting pressure on the back of the neck to
>> > drive the fret down. That might lead to its own fret buzzing problems,
>> > but it's an interesting thought.
>> >
>> > -Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Oh crumbs! I know that feeling ... my choice of degree was down to engineering and physics, I chose physics and regretted it later.

I wonder how Paul Rubenstein is getting on with his 'Eleutherotonal guitar'?. No details yet as far as I know (he was considering patenting it) but apparently it is simple and can be retuned into any scale.

It's about time we had an affordable moving-fret guitar to catch up with the synthesists.

Since methods for locking moving frets into position often clutter up the sides and back of the neck I've considered that such an instrument could be played with the fretboard horizontal, lapstyle, no need for thumbs on the back of the neck and the neck could be more massive for improved tone. The technique actually has advantages when tapping.

MatC

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> Debbie laughingly said last night - I bet you wish you had taken
> engineering instead of chemistry now :-) Actually she is right -

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "ixlramp" <ixlramp@...> wrote:
>
> Oh crumbs! I know that feeling ... my choice of degree was down to
> engineering and physics, I chose physics and regretted it later.
>
> I wonder how Paul Rubenstein is getting on with his 'Eleutherotonal
> guitar'?. No details yet as far as I know (he was considering
> patenting it) but apparently it is simple and can be retuned into
> any scale.
>

Ah yes, Paul Rubenstein... I am waitng, too...

Meanwhile, besides the mentioned Tolgahan Cogulu, there is also Hervé Chouard:

http://www.chouard.de/feinstimmbare-gitarre-fret-mobile.html
--
Hans Straub

This indeed was the case velcro was too squishy - it was $6 to try + my
time. I used both round dowels and your square dowel + fret wire idea. Here
is a picture of the velcro version before being fretted.
http://micro.soonlabel.com/various/stick/IMG00118.jpg

Subsequently I tried a magnetic tape idea. While actually workable the
unexpected problem was how easily the cotter pins used as frets were moved
accidentally.

Three pictures of this version.
http://micro.soonlabel.com/various/stick/IMG00121.jpg
http://micro.soonlabel.com/various/stick/IMG00122.jpg
http://micro.soonlabel.com/various/stick/IMG00123.jpg

Now... what may work is this:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202249708/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

It is a magnetic tool rack. It holds up to 20 pounds of tools. Amazon has a
24" version at the same price which holds 50 pounds of tools. I almost
bought 2 this morning - but the downside is that this a quite heavy piece of
equipment. 2 of them (as in the original design in my mind) would have been
a bear to play for any length of time. However, I think I have a design that
may be workable though it would need some precision work to pull it off.
Essentially the rack goes in the middle with wood glued on either side with
a suitably rough surface on the wood to prevent easy movement of whatever is
being used for frets. The main requirement is that everything at the playing
surface needs to be flush. I'm still working out the best way to do this
in my mind.

Chris

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 10:32 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:

>
>
> I fear velcro will be too squishy ... a fret needs to be firmly supported
> upon the neck of an instrument for good tone. Also the height of the frets
> will vary due to squish factor, causing incurable fretbuzz :(..
>
> MatC
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the details. The magnetic rack idea seemed promising, but then I just realised the strong magnet would make metal strings stick to the instrument. Might work with nylon strings I guess.

MatC

I don't think that is a given with higher tension strings. What would happen
is that the magnetism would rob the sustain of the inner stings. That
happens with pickups with regular electric guitars.

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 6:20 PM, ixlramp <ixlramp@...> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for the details. The magnetic rack idea seemed promising, but then I
> just realised the strong magnet would make metal strings stick to the
> instrument. Might work with nylon strings I guess.
>
> MatC
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alright.

I dismembered my 11 edo stick and I'm making a 22 edo stick, this time with
real frets, pick up and tuning machines. And since this is a straight board
cutting perpendicular to the fret board should not be a problem since I'll
be able to use a miter box the way it is meant to be used.

Some in process pictures are here:

http://micro.soonlabel.com/22-ET/22guitar/

Chris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]