Ben Johnston and Kyle Gann's music on Music From Other Minds - Must Listen

Two wonderful microtonal pieces and one 12-TET were on this week's Music From Other Minds podcast, available here:
http://rchrd.com/mfom/ar/mfom254.mp3

Description here: http://rchrd.com/mfom/wp/index.php

The first two pieces are wonderful microtonal works:

Starting at 0:00 Kyle Gann: The Day Revisited (2005)
Da Capo Chamber Players; New Albion 137 (2007)

Starting at 15:50 Ben Johnston: String Quartet #10 (1995)
Kepler Quartet; New World Records 80693 (2011)

The String Quartet #10 is well described as "spectacular" and a "tour-de-force" work. The ending is out of this world. You must listen.

Skip the Babbitt guitar music. Might as well have set a phone book to music. I usually love Babbitt, but not this time.

Stay until 45:00 for Kyle Gann: On Reading Emerson
Sarah Cahill, piano; New Albion 137 (2007) - not microtonal but definitely worth a listen. I like it where Kyle seems to be quoting Ives quoting Beethoven. Or it might be my imagination.

Prent Rodgers

Wow, new Johnston CD as of 2011! Kepler plays str quartets 1, 5 & 10!!

http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=87338

-Carl

At 11:47 AM 3/4/2011, you wrote:
>Two wonderful microtonal pieces and one 12-TET were on this week's
>Music From Other Minds podcast, available here:
>http://rchrd.com/mfom/ar/mfom254.mp3
>
>Description here: http://rchrd.com/mfom/wp/index.php
>
>The first two pieces are wonderful microtonal works:
>
>Starting at 0:00 Kyle Gann: The Day Revisited (2005)
>Da Capo Chamber Players; New Albion 137 (2007)
>
>Starting at 15:50 Ben Johnston: String Quartet #10 (1995)
>Kepler Quartet; New World Records 80693 (2011)
>
>The String Quartet #10 is well described as "spectacular" and a
>"tour-de-force" work. The ending is out of this world. You must listen.
>
>Skip the Babbitt guitar music. Might as well have set a phone book to
>music. I usually love Babbitt, but not this time.
>
>Stay until 45:00 for Kyle Gann: On Reading Emerson
>Sarah Cahill, piano; New Albion 137 (2007) - not microtonal but
>definitely worth a listen. I like it where Kyle seems to be quoting
>Ives quoting Beethoven. Or it might be my imagination.
>
>
>Prent Rodgers
>
>

$9 for the DRM-free download

http://www.amazon.com/Ben-Johnston-String-Quartets-Nos/dp/B004PWTUTG

At 11:55 AM 3/4/2011, I wrote:
>Wow, new Johnston CD as of 2011! Kepler plays str quartets 1, 5 & 10!!
>
> http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=87338
>
>-Carl

Yes. these are absolutely fantastic recordings of fantastic works! These are true masterpieces, up there with the very best string quartets written in the 20th Century - Bartok, Britten... [pick your choice of canonic masterpieces].

Also recommended as an endless source of inspiration as well as objects of thorough and humble study for anyone interested in just intonation.

The most complex Johnston quartets - #7 and #8 - are still waiting for their premiere recording.

Eagerly waiting for the Kepler Quartet to complete the whole cycle.

j

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "prentrodgers" <prentrodgers@...> wrote:
>
> Two wonderful microtonal pieces and one 12-TET were on this week's Music From Other Minds podcast, available here:
> http://rchrd.com/mfom/ar/mfom254.mp3
>
> Description here: http://rchrd.com/mfom/wp/index.php
>
> The first two pieces are wonderful microtonal works:
>
> Starting at 0:00 Kyle Gann: The Day Revisited (2005)
> Da Capo Chamber Players; New Albion 137 (2007)
>
> Starting at 15:50 Ben Johnston: String Quartet #10 (1995)
> Kepler Quartet; New World Records 80693 (2011)
>
> The String Quartet #10 is well described as "spectacular" and a "tour-de-force" work. The ending is out of this world. You must listen.
>
> Skip the Babbitt guitar music. Might as well have set a phone book to music. I usually love Babbitt, but not this time.
>
> Stay until 45:00 for Kyle Gann: On Reading Emerson
> Sarah Cahill, piano; New Albion 137 (2007) - not microtonal but definitely worth a listen. I like it where Kyle seems to be quoting Ives quoting Beethoven. Or it might be my imagination.
>
>
> Prent Rodgers
>

Juhani wrote:

>The most complex Johnston quartets - #7 and #8 - are still waiting
>for their premiere recording.

Since you seem to be in the know, please do not fail to post to
the list when/if they do! -Carl

Will do.
A while back they were actually trying to collect money for the recording project through a website (which might have been more successful had they had a PayPal account - I'd certainly have put in a small sum for a good cause like that). Maybe the situation is better now that they have switched from Tzadik to New World Records, let's hope so.

juhani

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Juhani wrote:
>
> >The most complex Johnston quartets - #7 and #8 - are still waiting
> >for their premiere recording.
>
> Since you seem to be in the know, please do not fail to post to
> the list when/if they do! -Carl
>

They being Kepler?

Kickstarter baby! Assurance contracts for the win! -Carl

Juhani wrote:

>Will do.
>A while back they were actually trying to collect money for the
>recording project through a website (which might have been more
>successful had they had a PayPal account - I'd certainly have put in a
>small sum for a good cause like that). Maybe the situation is better
>now that they have switched from Tzadik to New World Records, let's hope so.
>
>juhani

o c'mon: danny boy fer crissakes?!?

I'm a little shocked that anyone could mention this quartet and Bartok's and
Schoenberg's in the same sentence...

I liked the second movement.

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:47 PM, prentrodgers <prentrodgers@...>wrote:

>
>
> Two wonderful microtonal pieces and one 12-TET were on this week's Music
> From Other Minds podcast, available here:
> http://rchrd.com/mfom/ar/mfom254.mp3
>
> Description here: http://rchrd.com/mfom/wp/index.php
>
> The first two pieces are wonderful microtonal works:
>
> Starting at 0:00 Kyle Gann: The Day Revisited (2005)
> Da Capo Chamber Players; New Albion 137 (2007)
>
> Starting at 15:50 Ben Johnston: String Quartet #10 (1995)
> Kepler Quartet; New World Records 80693 (2011)
>
> The String Quartet #10 is well described as "spectacular" and a
> "tour-de-force" work. The ending is out of this world. You must listen.
>
> Skip the Babbitt guitar music. Might as well have set a phone book to
> music. I usually love Babbitt, but not this time.
>
> Stay until 45:00 for Kyle Gann: On Reading Emerson
> Sarah Cahill, piano; New Albion 137 (2007) - not microtonal but definitely
> worth a listen. I like it where Kyle seems to be quoting Ives quoting
> Beethoven. Or it might be my imagination.
>
> Prent Rodgers
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I take it you find the finale banal, then. I don't: I feel that the composer incorporates the climactic, sunny tune with skill and sure sense of drama, while giving it a very 'learned' treatment using his microtonal variation technique. The whole character of this particular quartet is light and sunny, as opposed to the complexities of some of the others.

It certainly wasn't beyond past masters to make use of popular tunes and folk music in their works. Even Schoenberg quotes things like "Ach du lieber Augustin" in his quartets.
And variations on a popular tune is an age-old form, of course.

So surely the problem is not the use of such material in itself but the way Johnston uses it - I guess you find that overtly obvious, or simply can't stand the the tune. I recommend some of the other quartets to you, especially no. 9 that has the clarity, vigor and brightness of the 10th but no folk tunes. (The 4th is a set of variations on Amazing Grace, and the 5th is a free set of variations on Lonesome Valley.)

Juhani

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Dante Rosati <danterosati@...> wrote:
>
> o c'mon: danny boy fer crissakes?!?
>
> I'm a little shocked that anyone could mention this quartet and Bartok's and
> Schoenberg's in the same sentence...
>
> I liked the second movement.
>

I must agree with Dante here.

I personally really enjoyed Johnston's 10th (thanks Prent!) and admire his skills, but I feel that a comparison to Brahms is not deserved.
I don't like everything written by Brahms equally, but many things he wrote show such mastery and beauty that I personally feel only very few composers in history are on the same level.

-Marcel

From: Juhani
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 10:38 AM
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MMM] Ben Johnston and Kyle Gann's music on Music From Other Minds - Must Listen

I take it you find the finale banal, then. I don't: I feel that the composer incorporates the climactic, sunny tune with skill and sure sense of drama, while giving it a very 'learned' treatment using his microtonal variation technique. The whole character of this particular quartet is light and sunny, as opposed to the complexities of some of the others.

It certainly wasn't beyond past masters to make use of popular tunes and folk music in their works. Even Schoenberg quotes things like "Ach du lieber Augustin" in his quartets.
And variations on a popular tune is an age-old form, of course.

So surely the problem is not the use of such material in itself but the way Johnston uses it - I guess you find that overtly obvious, or simply can't stand the the tune. I recommend some of the other quartets to you, especially no. 9 that has the clarity, vigor and brightness of the 10th but no folk tunes. (The 4th is a set of variations on Amazing Grace, and the 5th is a free set of variations on Lonesome Valley.)

Juhani

--- In mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com, Dante Rosati <danterosati@...> wrote:
>
> o c'mon: danny boy fer crissakes?!?
>
> I'm a little shocked that anyone could mention this quartet and Bartok's > and
> Schoenberg's in the same sentence...
>
> I liked the second movement.
>

Brahms? Nobody said anything about Brahms.
This whole comparison business is not important. Even so, let me explain I meant to say that Johnston's series of 10 string quartets, 9 of which are written in just intonation, deserves a place among the most important sets of string quartets by 20th Century composers. There are not very many such sets. Some would include Carter's, some Chostakovitch's; I mentioned Britten though some might disagree, etc. - that's why I left the list open.

The main thing is that people get to know, listen to, and study this beautiful music.

j

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, <m.develde@...> wrote:
>
> I must agree with Dante here.
>
> I personally really enjoyed Johnston's 10th (thanks Prent!) and admire his
> skills, but I feel that a comparison to Brahms is not deserved.
> I don't like everything written by Brahms equally, but many things he wrote
> show such mastery and beauty that I personally feel only very few composers
> in history are on the same level.
>
> -Marcel
>
>
>
> From: Juhani
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 10:38 AM
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Ben Johnston and Kyle Gann's music on Music From Other
> Minds - Must Listen
>
>
>
>
> I take it you find the finale banal, then. I don't: I feel that the composer
> incorporates the climactic, sunny tune with skill and sure sense of drama,
> while giving it a very 'learned' treatment using his microtonal variation
> technique. The whole character of this particular quartet is light and
> sunny, as opposed to the complexities of some of the others.
>
> It certainly wasn't beyond past masters to make use of popular tunes and
> folk music in their works. Even Schoenberg quotes things like "Ach du lieber
> Augustin" in his quartets.
> And variations on a popular tune is an age-old form, of course.
>
> So surely the problem is not the use of such material in itself but the way
> Johnston uses it - I guess you find that overtly obvious, or simply can't
> stand the the tune. I recommend some of the other quartets to you,
> especially no. 9 that has the clarity, vigor and brightness of the 10th but
> no folk tunes. (The 4th is a set of variations on Amazing Grace, and the 5th
> is a free set of variations on Lonesome Valley.)
>
> Juhani
>
>
> --- In mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com, Dante Rosati
> <danterosati@> wrote:
> >
> > o c'mon: danny boy fer crissakes?!?
> >
> > I'm a little shocked that anyone could mention this quartet and Bartok's
> > and
> > Schoenberg's in the same sentence...
> >
> > I liked the second movement.
> >
>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Juhani" <jnylenius@...> wrote:
>
> Brahms? Nobody said anything about Brahms.
> This whole comparison business is not important. Even so, let me explain I meant to say that Johnston's series of 10 string quartets, 9 of which are written in just intonation, deserves a place among the most important sets of string quartets by 20th Century composers. There are not very many such sets. Some would include Carter's, some Chostakovitch's; I mentioned Britten though some might disagree, etc. - that's why I left the list open.
>
> The main thing is that people get to know, listen to, and study this beautiful music.
>
> j

Ah Bartok!
I misread it somehow and Brahms got stuck in my head, sorry.

But yes agreed fully that comparison is not important and Johnston's string quartets are beautiful.

-Marcel

I would add Janáček, Ives, Bartók, Martinu, Villa-Lobos, Ginastera,
Milhaud, Nancarrow and Ligeti. Try also Peter Mennin, Sulkhan
Tsintsadze, Sofia Gubaidulina, A. Schnittke and A. Pärt.

Do you like three quartets by Joonas Kokkonen?

Daniel Forro

On Mar 5, 2011, at 8:25 PM, Juhani wrote:

> Brahms? Nobody said anything about Brahms.
> This whole comparison business is not important. Even so, let me
> explain I meant to say that Johnston's series of 10 string
> quartets, 9 of which are written in just intonation, deserves a
> place among the most important sets of string quartets by 20th
> Century composers. There are not very many such sets. Some would
> include Carter's, some Chostakovitch's; I mentioned Britten though
> some might disagree, etc. - that's why I left the list open.
>
> The main thing is that people get to know, listen to, and study
> this beautiful music.
>
> j

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Forró Daniel <dan.for@...> wrote:
>
> I would add JanáÄo?=ek, Ives, Bartók, Martinu, Villa-Lobos, Ginastera,
> Milhaud, Nancarrow and Ligeti. Try also Peter Mennin, Sulkhan
> Tsintsadze, Sofia Gubaidulina, A. Schnittke and A. Pärt.

Nielsen wrote some very nice quartets early on in his career to which not much attention gets paid, and Sibelius a nice one which is well-known. Hindemith wrote seven excellent string quartets, and Prokoviev two.

Yes, and I've written two myself, the second one of which is rather pretty, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKGD_wmeVc
But this is off-topic, as that's not microtonal; there are microtones in the second movement but that's not online, except in iTunes.

It's nice that all those interesting string quartets got mentioned in this thread. Not many 20th century composers have written more than two or three, though. A composer that I quite like, Milhaud, was mentioned - like Beethoven, he has eighteen, and I'm more than happy to give praise to his set of quartets, as they're not known or played nearly often enough.

And he was Johnston's teacher... whose music was the subject. Now, let me rephrase my original post:

"These are absolutely fantastic recordings of fantastic works! I think they're masterpieces, really. Johnston's quartets are my very favorites in the 20th Century repertoire."

j

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Forró Daniel <dan.for@> wrote:
> >
> > I would add JanáÄo?=ek, Ives, Bartók, Martinu, Villa-Lobos, Ginastera,
> > Milhaud, Nancarrow and Ligeti. Try also Peter Mennin, Sulkhan
> > Tsintsadze, Sofia Gubaidulina, A. Schnittke and A. Pärt.
>
> Nielsen wrote some very nice quartets early on in his career to which not much attention gets paid, and Sibelius a nice one which is well-known. Hindemith wrote seven excellent string quartets, and Prokoviev two.
>

Hi Juhani,

> Yes, and I've written two myself, the second one of which is rather pretty, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKGD_wmeVc
> But this is off-topic, as that's not microtonal; there are microtones in the second movement but that's not online, except in iTunes.
>

Beautiful indeed! (including the women ;)
Thank you!

Though I personally always consider string quartet to play microtonal by nature. It sure isn't 12tet

-Marcel

>
> Beautiful indeed! (including the women ;)
> Thank you!
>
> Though I personally always consider string quartet to play microtonal by nature. It sure isn't 12tet
>

Thank you!

You're right - it's tonal music with lots of triadic harmony, and the players intone accordingly, as I definitely expect them to, though in places I suspect it can be close to 12tet as there are enharmonic modulations and symmetrical divisions of the chromatic scale in the music.

But how exactly - that's not specified in the score (as it would be in a Johnston piece) any more than it is in the traditional repertory. In the other movements of the piece there are some notated microtones.

juhani

>Some would include Carter's, some Chostakovitch's;

Some Prokofiev's... -Carl

Juhani wrote:
>Yes, and I've written two myself, the second one of which is rather
>pretty, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKGD_wmeVc
>But this is off-topic, as that's not microtonal; there are microtones
>in the second movement but that's not online, except in iTunes.

Wow, great work! Would love to hear what you could do
xenharmonically.

Do you sell music on Amazon or cdbaby? I don't do iTunes.

-Carl