A positive direction with NI

More correspondence with Michael Kurz (NI Synthesis Technology Director) follows below:
> Our needs can be met by implementing the midi tuning
> standard (http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.htm).

MK: I have had a look at the document and I think I can implement reception of
this format.

> If possible, first by file loading of the sysex midi tunings as files and
> hopefully by direct sysex dump to NI synths.

MK: Both would work in standalone mode, but VST plug-ins do not receive Sysex
data from the host, unfortunately. My limited implementation would only support one tuning program (#0). And as soon as any 128-note tuning data is received, the internal 12-note tuning
would be disabled to avoid overwriting the received tuning data on a program change. The built-in microtuning would stay disabled until FM7 is shut down. However, unlike everything else, the 128-note tuning data would not be remembered the next time the standalone is launched or the sequencer-song opened, in this quick-and-dirty implementation, because no memory is
assigned for it. So you would have to reload the desired tuning data every time you start the instrument.

Are these acceptable limitations, do you think?

Can you send me a couple of files with sysex tuning data to use for
testing?

--------------------------------------------------------

Well, this is certainly positive news! Are there any comments or suggestions that MMM participants would like to add?

I think the limitation mentioned would be fine in regard to a beta version of 128 retuning. I would hope that if it is successful that a more functional implementation could be arranged, so that each instance of a plugin would not have to initialized by hand each time a project is opened, etc...

The way I see things is that this beta version is testing the feasibility of loading MTS files with 128 retuning and is not focused on ease of use. Hopefully that will be addressed if this procedure for 128 retuning is successful.

Can someone provide a few MTS tuning files that would be appropriate for testing? For example, files that might challenge the implementation Michael is working on currently. I am not sure of good files to send in regard to this purpose.

Thanks for any input on this matter; discussion on MMM has been very helpful. I forward links to all of the messages covering related threads on to Michael at NI.

Best,
--Mike

Egregious
"Spiritual renewal through music for those outside the heard."
http://www.egregious.net/

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., Catharsis <catharsis@e...> wrote:
> More correspondence with Michael Kurz (NI Synthesis Technology
Director)
> follows below:
> > Our needs can be met by implementing the midi tuning
> > standard (http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.htm).
>
> MK: I have had a look at the document and I think I can implement
reception of
> this format.
>
> > If possible, first by file loading of the sysex midi tunings as
files and
> > hopefully by direct sysex dump to NI synths.
>
> MK: Both would work in standalone mode, but VST plug-ins do not
receive Sysex
> data from the host, unfortunately. My limited implementation would
only
> support one tuning program (#0). And as soon as any 128-note tuning
data is
> received, the internal 12-note tuning
> would be disabled to avoid overwriting the received tuning data on
a
> program change. The built-in microtuning would stay disabled until
FM7 is
> shut down. However, unlike everything else, the 128-note tuning
data would
> not be remembered the next time the standalone is launched or the
> sequencer-song opened, in this quick-and-dirty implementation,
because no
> memory is
> assigned for it. So you would have to reload the desired tuning
data every
> time you start the instrument.
>
> Are these acceptable limitations, do you think?
>
> Can you send me a couple of files with sysex tuning data to use for
> testing?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Well, this is certainly positive news! Are there any comments or
> suggestions that MMM participants would like to add?
>
> I think the limitation mentioned would be fine in regard to a beta
version
> of 128 retuning. I would hope that if it is successful that a more
> functional implementation could be arranged, so that each instance
of a
> plugin would not have to initialized by hand each time a project is
opened,
> etc...
>
> The way I see things is that this beta version is testing the
feasibility
> of loading MTS files with 128 retuning and is not focused on ease
of use.
> Hopefully that will be addressed if this procedure for 128 retuning
is
> successful.
>
> Can someone provide a few MTS tuning files that would be
appropriate for
> testing? For example, files that might challenge the implementation
Michael
> is working on currently. I am not sure of good files to send in
regard to
> this purpose.
>
> Thanks for any input on this matter; discussion on MMM has been
very
> helpful. I forward links to all of the messages covering related
threads on
> to Michael at NI.
>
> Best,
> --Mike
>
> Egregious
> "Spiritual renewal through music for those outside the heard."
> http://www.egregious.net/

This is *fantastic* !!: ) Does this mean that real-time will be
supported? I.e single note change without retriggering the key?
I have been waiting for this for *ages*. Carl Lumma is someone who
would be interested in the details and would be able to point Michael
in the right direction.

Kudos to NI!

Justin

Hi Justin,

Yes, seems that is exactly what will happen, by the specs:

http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning_extens.htm

Real time ones change the pitches of notes already
sounding. Non real time ones only change pitches of new notes.

I've done some work on implementing tonic shifts in FTS
as in Carl Lumma's spec, and did it by remapping notes to
other channels as needed for the pitch bends - that was all "non real time"
in this terminology, leaving existing notes at their
present pitches. The problem was that one might have two
notes that have the same pitch bend as each other before
a tonic shift, and then need different pitch bends afterwards,
and then one would only be able to do that by switching
one of them off and on again. After thinking through
the implications of programming that, I decided to
put it off to a later date :-).

Robert

Hi Mike,

I've added the single note retuning to FTS. Also while at it, I've added the other
four formats as well.

So, I can provide files in them all, and for suitable ones, the same file
in all five formats + the same file as midi with channel remapping and pitch bends
which one could listen to to compare.

Todays upload of FTS can also send the sysexes in real time for the
single note retuning.

There's no help for it yet, so here is an overview:

.............................................................................

To use FTS to test real time retuning, choose

Out | Options | Tuning Programs | Use tuning programs,

and select the appropriate type to use, then it will play the fractal tunes
using the sysexes to retune the notes, ditto for midi relaying. You can
also choose which tuning program and bank to use for each part.

In case where the fractal tune needs more than 128 notes to
be retuned and one uses one of the two bulk data formats,
any extra notes in the fractal tune will simply not
be played (because sending a new bulk dump to retune
an extra note would take too much time).

As a quick way to generate files in all six formats:

If you check the option to save in all six formats and use
File | Save As | Files of type | Midi files, it will save the
fractal tune in all six formats at once, adding to the file name
_S, _SB, _SBNR, _B, _BB
for the saves using single note retuning, single note retuning with bank,
ditto, non real time, bulk tuning dump, and bulk tuning dump
with bank.

Fractal tunes shouldl sound the same with single note retuning with bank, whether
real time or non real time.

However, single note retuning with bank real time and non real time
options should have different effects with relaying from miid keyboard
using
Views | Midi Keyboard Advanced | Presets for Scales for tracks
| M.W. Scale + Tonic shifts.
+ Retune sounding notes. The real time one should let one
retune notes already sounding so that one will hear them shift
in pitch as one changes the tonic, while with the the non real time option
FTS will try to retune them in the same way, but it should
have no effect.
.............................................................................

No way of testing it though at present.. I'd be interested
to beta test FM7 with FTS so that FTS is ready with this option
for the release of new version of FM7. Maybe they'd also like to use FTS
with FM7 to try out the single note retuning in real time.

The hex dumps and sysexes look right as far as I can tell
without actually trying them out with a synth / softsynth.

BTW I enjoyed your CSound harmonic drone, thanks!

Robert

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]