Competing Terms for "pieces of music" in different genres

Juhani>"There are instrumental pieces in popular music, too, and they're not
necessarily called 'songs', either. In dance music, people speak of
'tracks';"

   Yes...every one who considers themselves a "specialist" in a genre would likely call everyone else's definition for "pieces of music" wrong.  It's a road to nowhere....

  What if someone called a four-"voice" drum-and-bass "track" I made a "song" or a "tune"?  I honestly wouldn't care.  But if someone called it a "Quartet", I'd actually be somewhat angry, because Quartet refers exclusively to classical music and that piece of music would not be classical (IE someone may well even throw me of a D&B music site without listening to the music and say "classical music is not allowed here!").

   The thought of Debussy as a producer is partly hilarious but, you know what...if letting people call Debussy a "track producer" gets more people to listen to and love his music, Lord bless those who call his works "tracks"! :-D

  Now what can we all agree to call musical works done in microtonal scales?  "Macks" (microtonal tracks)?! :-D   Just kidding but, seriously, is calling everything "songs" and shorter works "incomplete songs" or "intro songs" really that evil a terminology?

Term "Quartet" is used in jazz as well, for a group of four
musicians. As well as Duo, Trio, Quintet...

Daniel Forro

On 27 Feb 2011, at 6:25 AM, Michael wrote:
>
> What if someone called a four-"voice" drum-and-bass "track" I
> made a "song" or a "tune"? I honestly wouldn't care. But if
> someone called it a "Quartet", I'd actually be somewhat angry,
> because Quartet refers exclusively to classical music and that
> piece of music would not be classical (IE someone may well even
> throw me of a D&B music site without listening to the music and say
> "classical music is not allowed here!").

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Jon>"Term "Quartet" is used in jazz as well, for a group of four  musicians. As well as Duo, Trio, Quintet..."

   Fair enough, I can assume quartet is used in jazz though, practically speaking, I have never seen any local jazz musicians introduce their 4 person band as a quartet (or their three person band as a trio).

  But what's the terrible degradation by, say, calling a quartet a song?  When most people see four people on the stage...obviously...they will figure out it's a four person group.  :-P 
   Furthermore, what does using the term "quartet" do to enhance the actual music production process (IE, as I see it, the purpose of the list)?

   I mean if you like to use it, by all means do so (it doesn't hurt, obviously), but why spit on those who don't? 

At 01:25 PM 2/26/11 -0800, Michael wrote:
>  What if someone called a four-"voice" drum-and-bass "track" I made a
"song" or a "tune"?  I honestly wouldn't care.  But if someone called it a
"Quartet", I'd actually be somewhat angry, because Quartet refers
exclusively to classical music and that piece of music would not be
classical (IE someone may well even throw me of a D&B music site without
listening to the music and say "classical music is not allowed here!").

I never realized barbershop harmony was classical.

Beco dos Gatinhos
<http://www.rev.net/~aloe/music>

>"I never realized barbershop harmony was classical."

   Well ok, not always but almost always.  And even though Barbershop is not classical, it's still firmly placed as relatively non-modern music.  And...I think groups like Gas House Gang are amazing at what they do, but at the same time am not interested in their art.
   Look...some people like that sort of thing and that's fine...but the whole idea of being being consistently prodded to either like more non-modern genres on the list really bugs me.   Personally I gravitate toward rock and all types of electronica...and yet to bulk of the list seems to be trying to make use terms relevant to neither of those genres or use terms like "quartet" to define them.

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 > Personally I gravitate toward rock and all types of electronica...and yet to bulk of the list >seems to be trying to make use terms relevant to neither of those genres or use terms like >"quartet" to define them.

I don't believe you. Why would anyone call drum and bass tracks "quartets"? It's you who insists on using the term "song" when speaking of pieces in genres where that word n e v e r means anything other than a short piece of music sung by a singer.

I'm a big fan of electronica, too. When the drum and bass artist Minus 8 sampled Chostakovitch's 8th Symphony on one of his tracks, I assume he called it Chostakovitch's symphony when he talked about it, but I could be mistaken of course.

j

Juhani>"I don't believe you. Why would anyone call drum and bass tracks
"quartets"?"
   They wouldn't.  Which is why it seems rather twisted that people seem to come at me angrily for not knowing certain specifics behind terms that have nothing to do with genre's I tend to focus on.

   Counter-example: As a musician interested in the rock genre, I wouldn't expect a classical musician to know the difference between a "hammer on" and "tapping" or even "fast picking" in rock.  I also wouldn't come out angrily saying "you ignorant...you don't know the difference?!"
    Granted, I might say "actually, just to note, there is a difference: tapping alternates higher and lower notes as a fast arpeggio without using the pick against the string while hammer-ons involve quickly hitting only increasing pitch notes without using the pick and fast-picking involves using the pick for several quickly played notes.  All of them are fast, but they are not the same (acknowledging that there is a similarity that may have confused the person using the terms incorrectly despite his/her intteligent effort to use the term correctly)...

>" It's you who insists on using the term "song"
Says who?  I used it incorrectly ONCE....and once you sent me the links I GOT I PERFECTLY and NEVER USED SONG IN THAT CONTEXT AGAIN!!!

>"when speaking
of pieces in genres where that word n e v e r means anything other than
a short piece of music sung by a singer.""
  
   Look, I'm not frustrated with the definition (as said many times before I understand this...in fact, after you gave me links to the definition, I was the first on-list to say what the definition was, thus proving I did read and take seriously your links, you are STILL flaming up at me.  So why on earth are you angry at me?  I listened, I learned I followed through...

>"I'm a big fan of electronica, too. When the drum and bass artist Minus
8 sampled Chostakovitch's 8th Symphony on one of his tracks, I assume
he called it Chostakovitch's symphony when he talked about it, but I
could be mistaken of course."

   Right, but that's obvious because the song title of the symphony states that IE it has the word "Symphony" in there and it would take a blind mind not to notice that.  Same goes for many quartets in classical music.  Many of Debussy's titles, for example, do NOT say "song" or "quartet" in them.  Thus it's not any more unspeakable for someone announcing titles of pieces of music to "guess wrong" on what classical sub-genre they are, particularly if they, like me, do not listen to much classical music.

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