The Book

Regarding the future/impending "Great Book of Xenology", bear in mind that getting the information right, deciding on the scope, getting all the examples lined up, all this is just part of the picture.

The more important part is that the person writing this book must not just be a good writer, but a very good communicator. If not *the* Achille's heel of the microtonal community, at least (arguably) the largest impediment, is the problem that a lot of knowledgeable individuals haven't developed the skills to communicate that knowledge outside of the inner circle. Maybe they haven't *needed* to, but this project cries out for something far less opaque than we are used to dealing with in these parts...

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:05 AM, jonszanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Regarding the future/impending "Great Book of Xenology", bear in mind that getting the information right, deciding on the scope, getting all the examples lined up, all this is just part of the picture.
>
> The more important part is that the person writing this book must not just be a good writer, but a very good communicator. If not *the* Achille's heel of the microtonal community, at least (arguably) the largest impediment, is the problem that a lot of knowledgeable individuals haven't developed the skills to communicate that knowledge outside of the inner circle. Maybe they haven't *needed* to, but this project cries out for something far less opaque than we are used to dealing with in these parts...

Well, if someone can figure it out, they'll probably be rich. Me, I'm
not writing anything until I understand the math like the back of my
hand and have written lots of nice music to boot. (Which means I need
to get Kontakt worked out posthaste.)

-Mike

I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
understand the history and theory, too.

I've been trying to organize my understanding of tuning systems, and
that exercise suggests to me an outline like the following. Note that
I am still translating things to and from the traditional terms that I
understand: I'm not a "native microtonal speaker". That's a
disadvantage for composition, but probably not all bad for someone
who's trying to structure things in a way that helps other non-natives
learn.

---------------
THEORY
---------------

Just intonation theory
-----
* Simple overtones and ratios: Octaves, fifths, and fourths (2/1, 3/2, 4/3)
* Building tetrachords (the 9/8 whole step)
* Extending scales with ratios: 3- and 5-limit JI
* Extending scales with ratios: "Microtonal" JI extensions in 7, 11,
13-limit, etc.
* Extending scales by stacking intervals
* Circle of fifths
* Modulation
* God laughs: the Pythagorean comma

Tempering theory
-----
* Why temper?
* Types of commas
* "Comma pumps"
* Historical ways in which commas affected tuning
** Pythagorean tuning
** The comma of Didymus (syntonic comma)
** Important temperaments (e.g., Quarter-Comma Meantone, Werckmeister, etc)
** Well-Temperaments [are the "other important temperaments" included in this?]
*** Note "well-tempered clavier" isn't the "equal-tempered clavier":
how non-EDO tempering affected composing in different keys
** Regular temperaments [are "well-temperaments" included in this?]

Equal Temperaments
-----
* As a regular-temperament approximation of JI
* JI be damned: equal temperaments as a source of creativity in their own right

Scales from outside Western culture
-----
* Far eastern?
* Maqam? Middle Eastern?
* African?

--------------
PRACTICE
--------------

[This is the section I understand least, so the outline is a set of
things I want to know rather than the things I think I already know.]

Picking a scale
-----
* based on commas (I think Mike talked about this?)
* based on desired harmonic structure (e.g., 7-limit, ability to
modulate, cultural background, occurrence of a given tetrad, closeness
of proximity to just intervals, etc.)
* based on ease of adaptation to physical instruments
* based on compatibility with others (voice, 12-EDO, etc.)
* based on...?

Modes: You have a scale, but now what?
-----
* Scale as architecture, mode as mood color
** Sometime you use all notes, e.g., traditional diatonics and pentatonics
** Most of the time you don't use all possible notes in a scale, e.g.,
traditional "major / minor" modes as part of chromatic scale
** Traditional Greek modes, of which major & minor are only two
** "Standard" 12-EDO modes derived from but now independent of the
Greek (same notes, different keys; same key, different notes)
** Not always simple, e.g., melodic minor
** Other ways of subsetting scales
*** Traditional pentatonics and blues scales
*** MOS (still don't get this fully myself -- might need to be a long section)
*** 12-EDO whole tone / 6-EDO
*** Messaien and other modes
*** modes of modes, e.g., the Klezmer and Gypsy scales as 4th or 5th
mode of harmonic minor
*** Modes derived from non-Western scales
*** Non-octave scales (e.g., Bohlen-Pierce, Carlos Alpha / Beta / Gamma)

Melody
-----
* How does my choice of scale and mode affect:
** stepwise movement
** interval leaps
** shorter / longer durations
** melodic tension / release
** polyphony

Harmony
----
* how timbre affects harmony
** strings, bells, and clarinets useful in different ways
* drones
* traditional two-part voicing extended to non-twelve (?)
* traditional polyphony extended to non-twelve (?)
** suspensions and resolutions?
* traditional triadic harmony
** understanding JI chord ratios (e.g., 6:7:9)
** traditional non-triad chords
*** 7ths: dominant, major, minor
*** sus4 / sus2
*** other jazz / classical extended chords
* adapting these ideas to non-twelve harmonies
** supermajor, subminor, etc
** neutral thirds
** harmonic sevenths
** ...and...?
* choosing harmonic progressions
** limitations on chord progressions in JI (e.g., wolf 5th in 5-limit JI)
** tension and release in non-twelve progressions
** ...and...?

I've spent more time than I should on this. I think the theoretical
stuff is logically organized, but I'm not sure the practical stuff
even touches on the right ideas -- but then again, that's why there
needs to be a book!

Regards,
Jake

On 2/8/11, jonszanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
> Regarding the future/impending "Great Book of Xenology", bear in mind that
> getting the information right, deciding on the scope, getting all the
> examples lined up, all this is just part of the picture.
>
> The more important part is that the person writing this book must not just
> be a good writer, but a very good communicator. If not *the* Achille's heel
> of the microtonal community, at least (arguably) the largest impediment, is
> the problem that a lot of knowledgeable individuals haven't developed the
> skills to communicate that knowledge outside of the inner circle. Maybe they
> haven't *needed* to, but this project cries out for something far less
> opaque than we are used to dealing with in these parts...
>
>

This book which Carl recommended helped me with some of those questions.
http://www.dbdoty.com/Words/Primer1.html

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:

>
>
> I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
> a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
> understand the history and theory, too.
>
> I've been trying to organize my understanding of tuning systems, and
> that exercise suggests to me an outline like the following. Note that
> I am still translating things to and from the traditional terms that I
> understand: I'm not a "native microtonal speaker". That's a
> disadvantage for composition, but probably not all bad for someone
> who's trying to structure things in a way that helps other non-natives
> learn.
>
> ---------------
> THEORY
> ---------------
>
> Just intonation theory
> -----
> * Simple overtones and ratios: Octaves, fifths, and fourths (2/1, 3/2, 4/3)
> * Building tetrachords (the 9/8 whole step)
> * Extending scales with ratios: 3- and 5-limit JI
> * Extending scales with ratios: "Microtonal" JI extensions in 7, 11,
> 13-limit, etc.
> * Extending scales by stacking intervals
> * Circle of fifths
> * Modulation
> * God laughs: the Pythagorean comma
>
> Tempering theory
> -----
> * Why temper?
> * Types of commas
> * "Comma pumps"
> * Historical ways in which commas affected tuning
> ** Pythagorean tuning
> ** The comma of Didymus (syntonic comma)
> ** Important temperaments (e.g., Quarter-Comma Meantone, Werckmeister, etc)
> ** Well-Temperaments [are the "other important temperaments" included in
> this?]
> *** Note "well-tempered clavier" isn't the "equal-tempered clavier":
> how non-EDO tempering affected composing in different keys
> ** Regular temperaments [are "well-temperaments" included in this?]
>
> Equal Temperaments
> -----
> * As a regular-temperament approximation of JI
> * JI be damned: equal temperaments as a source of creativity in their own
> right
>
> Scales from outside Western culture
> -----
> * Far eastern?
> * Maqam? Middle Eastern?
> * African?
>
> --------------
> PRACTICE
> --------------
>
> [This is the section I understand least, so the outline is a set of
> things I want to know rather than the things I think I already know.]
>
> Picking a scale
> -----
> * based on commas (I think Mike talked about this?)
> * based on desired harmonic structure (e.g., 7-limit, ability to
> modulate, cultural background, occurrence of a given tetrad, closeness
> of proximity to just intervals, etc.)
> * based on ease of adaptation to physical instruments
> * based on compatibility with others (voice, 12-EDO, etc.)
> * based on...?
>
> Modes: You have a scale, but now what?
> -----
> * Scale as architecture, mode as mood color
> ** Sometime you use all notes, e.g., traditional diatonics and pentatonics
> ** Most of the time you don't use all possible notes in a scale, e.g.,
> traditional "major / minor" modes as part of chromatic scale
> ** Traditional Greek modes, of which major & minor are only two
> ** "Standard" 12-EDO modes derived from but now independent of the
> Greek (same notes, different keys; same key, different notes)
> ** Not always simple, e.g., melodic minor
> ** Other ways of subsetting scales
> *** Traditional pentatonics and blues scales
> *** MOS (still don't get this fully myself -- might need to be a long
> section)
> *** 12-EDO whole tone / 6-EDO
> *** Messaien and other modes
> *** modes of modes, e.g., the Klezmer and Gypsy scales as 4th or 5th
> mode of harmonic minor
> *** Modes derived from non-Western scales
> *** Non-octave scales (e.g., Bohlen-Pierce, Carlos Alpha / Beta / Gamma)
>
> Melody
> -----
> * How does my choice of scale and mode affect:
> ** stepwise movement
> ** interval leaps
> ** shorter / longer durations
> ** melodic tension / release
> ** polyphony
>
> Harmony
> ----
> * how timbre affects harmony
> ** strings, bells, and clarinets useful in different ways
> * drones
> * traditional two-part voicing extended to non-twelve (?)
> * traditional polyphony extended to non-twelve (?)
> ** suspensions and resolutions?
> * traditional triadic harmony
> ** understanding JI chord ratios (e.g., 6:7:9)
> ** traditional non-triad chords
> *** 7ths: dominant, major, minor
> *** sus4 / sus2
> *** other jazz / classical extended chords
> * adapting these ideas to non-twelve harmonies
> ** supermajor, subminor, etc
> ** neutral thirds
> ** harmonic sevenths
> ** ...and...?
> * choosing harmonic progressions
> ** limitations on chord progressions in JI (e.g., wolf 5th in 5-limit JI)
> ** tension and release in non-twelve progressions
> ** ...and...?
>
> I've spent more time than I should on this. I think the theoretical
> stuff is logically organized, but I'm not sure the practical stuff
> even touches on the right ideas -- but then again, that's why there
> needs to be a book!
>
> Regards,
> Jake
>
>
> On 2/8/11, jonszanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
> > Regarding the future/impending "Great Book of Xenology", bear in mind
> that
> > getting the information right, deciding on the scope, getting all the
> > examples lined up, all this is just part of the picture.
> >
> > The more important part is that the person writing this book must not
> just
> > be a good writer, but a very good communicator. If not *the* Achille's
> heel
> > of the microtonal community, at least (arguably) the largest impediment,
> is
> > the problem that a lot of knowledgeable individuals haven't developed the
> > skills to communicate that knowledge outside of the inner circle. Maybe
> they
> > haven't *needed* to, but this project cries out for something far less
> > opaque than we are used to dealing with in these parts...
> >
> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:

Responded to on the tuning group:

/tuning/topicId_96123.html#96123

This is where the topic belongs, I think.

I very strongly disagree. Discussion about a book on Making Micro Music belongs on Making Micro Music. If you want anything to come out of it, in real life, better keep it here.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@> wrote:
>
> Responded to on the tuning group:
>
> /tuning/topicId_96123.html#96123
>
> This is where the topic belongs, I think.
>

I think parts of it probably belongs in both places. The book I'd like
would have some theory that I don't absolutely need, but that I'd like
to know -- that's probably more for the Tuning (or Tuning-Math, which
I'm not on) list. On the other hand, I don't have to know how, say,
Blackwood's theoretical underpinnings in order to make music with it,
and the more practical topics that help me shut up and make music
probably belong on MMM.

Regards,
Jake

On 2/9/11, cameron <misterbobro@...> wrote:
> I very strongly disagree. Discussion about a book on Making Micro Music
> belongs on Making Micro Music. If you want anything to come out of it, in
> real life, better keep it here.
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@> wrote:
>>
>> Responded to on the tuning group:
>>
>> /tuning/topicId_96123.html#96123
>>
>> This is where the topic belongs, I think.
>>
>
>
>

No offense meant - my impression was that we were discovering these
rules as we composed music.

Common practice theory isn't theory in a scientific sense - it is just
a compilation of what "worked" for composers who invented music in new
(at the time) ways and some attempts by the theorists to explain why.
That is not to say answers to these questions can't be hinted at - or
even answered - by reading the appropriate 12 equal text.

Twentieth-century Harmony by Vincent Persichett (excellent survey -
easy to understand and put to use)
Theory of Harmony by Arnold Schoenberg - he knew common practice
forwards and backwards - much respect to him.
Structural Functions of Harmony by Arnold Schoenberg

All of these are on Amazon at reasonable cost.

Chris

--------------------

Melody
-----
* How does my choice of scale and mode affect:
** stepwise movement
** interval leaps
** shorter / longer durations
** melodic tension / release
** polyphony

Harmony
----

* traditional two-part voicing extended to non-twelve (?)
* traditional polyphony extended to non-twelve (?)
** suspensions and resolutions?

** traditional non-triad chords
*** 7ths: dominant, major, minor
*** sus4 / sus2
*** other jazz / classical extended chords
* adapting these ideas to non-twelve harmonies
** supermajor, subminor, etc
** neutral thirds
** harmonic sevenths
** ...and...?
* choosing harmonic progressions
** limitations on chord progressions in JI (e.g., wolf 5th in 5-limit JI)
** tension and release in non-twelve progressions
** ...and...?

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:49 PM, Jake Freivald <jdfreivald@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
> a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
> understand the history and theory, too.
>

This looks like a fine, ambitious project. But the outline titles
suggest the necessity to pursue the matter for dozens of pages per
subject along with ample demonstrations.

Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

Jake Freivald wrote:
> I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
> a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
> understand the history and theory, too.
>
> I've been trying to organize my understanding of tuning systems, and
> that exercise suggests to me an outline like the following. Note that
> I am still translating things to and from the traditional terms that I
> understand: I'm not a "native microtonal speaker". That's a
> disadvantage for composition, but probably not all bad for someone
> who's trying to structure things in a way that helps other non-natives
> learn.
>
> ---------------
> THEORY
> ---------------
>
> Just intonation theory
> -----
> * Simple overtones and ratios: Octaves, fifths, and fourths (2/1, 3/2, 4/3)
> * Building tetrachords (the 9/8 whole step)
> * Extending scales with ratios: 3- and 5-limit JI
> * Extending scales with ratios: "Microtonal" JI extensions in 7, 11,
> 13-limit, etc.
> * Extending scales by stacking intervals
> * Circle of fifths
> * Modulation
> * God laughs: the Pythagorean comma
>
> Tempering theory
> -----
> * Why temper?
> * Types of commas
> * "Comma pumps"
> * Historical ways in which commas affected tuning
> ** Pythagorean tuning
> ** The comma of Didymus (syntonic comma)
> ** Important temperaments (e.g., Quarter-Comma Meantone, Werckmeister, etc)
> ** Well-Temperaments [are the "other important temperaments" included in this?]
> *** Note "well-tempered clavier" isn't the "equal-tempered clavier":
> how non-EDO tempering affected composing in different keys
> ** Regular temperaments [are "well-temperaments" included in this?]
>
> Equal Temperaments
> -----
> * As a regular-temperament approximation of JI
> * JI be damned: equal temperaments as a source of creativity in their own right
>
> Scales from outside Western culture
> -----
> * Far eastern?
> * Maqam? Middle Eastern?
> * African?
>
> --------------
> PRACTICE
> --------------
>
> [This is the section I understand least, so the outline is a set of
> things I want to know rather than the things I think I already know.]
>
> Picking a scale
> -----
> * based on commas (I think Mike talked about this?)
> * based on desired harmonic structure (e.g., 7-limit, ability to
> modulate, cultural background, occurrence of a given tetrad, closeness
> of proximity to just intervals, etc.)
> * based on ease of adaptation to physical instruments
> * based on compatibility with others (voice, 12-EDO, etc.)
> * based on...?
>
> Modes: You have a scale, but now what?
> -----
> * Scale as architecture, mode as mood color
> ** Sometime you use all notes, e.g., traditional diatonics and pentatonics
> ** Most of the time you don't use all possible notes in a scale, e.g.,
> traditional "major / minor" modes as part of chromatic scale
> ** Traditional Greek modes, of which major& minor are only two
> ** "Standard" 12-EDO modes derived from but now independent of the
> Greek (same notes, different keys; same key, different notes)
> ** Not always simple, e.g., melodic minor
> ** Other ways of subsetting scales
> *** Traditional pentatonics and blues scales
> *** MOS (still don't get this fully myself -- might need to be a long section)
> *** 12-EDO whole tone / 6-EDO
> *** Messaien and other modes
> *** modes of modes, e.g., the Klezmer and Gypsy scales as 4th or 5th
> mode of harmonic minor
> *** Modes derived from non-Western scales
> *** Non-octave scales (e.g., Bohlen-Pierce, Carlos Alpha / Beta / Gamma)
>
> Melody
> -----
> * How does my choice of scale and mode affect:
> ** stepwise movement
> ** interval leaps
> ** shorter / longer durations
> ** melodic tension / release
> ** polyphony
>
> Harmony
> ----
> * how timbre affects harmony
> ** strings, bells, and clarinets useful in different ways
> * drones
> * traditional two-part voicing extended to non-twelve (?)
> * traditional polyphony extended to non-twelve (?)
> ** suspensions and resolutions?
> * traditional triadic harmony
> ** understanding JI chord ratios (e.g., 6:7:9)
> ** traditional non-triad chords
> *** 7ths: dominant, major, minor
> *** sus4 / sus2
> *** other jazz / classical extended chords
> * adapting these ideas to non-twelve harmonies
> ** supermajor, subminor, etc
> ** neutral thirds
> ** harmonic sevenths
> ** ...and...?
> * choosing harmonic progressions
> ** limitations on chord progressions in JI (e.g., wolf 5th in 5-limit JI)
> ** tension and release in non-twelve progressions
> ** ...and...?
>
> I've spent more time than I should on this. I think the theoretical
> stuff is logically organized, but I'm not sure the practical stuff
> even touches on the right ideas -- but then again, that's why there
> needs to be a book!
>
> Regards,
> Jake
>
>
> On 2/8/11, jonszanto<jszanto@...> wrote:
>> Regarding the future/impending "Great Book of Xenology", bear in mind that
>> getting the information right, deciding on the scope, getting all the
>> examples lined up, all this is just part of the picture.
>>
>> The more important part is that the person writing this book must not just
>> be a good writer, but a very good communicator. If not *the* Achille's heel
>> of the microtonal community, at least (arguably) the largest impediment, is
>> the problem that a lot of knowledgeable individuals haven't developed the
>> skills to communicate that knowledge outside of the inner circle. Maybe they
>> haven't *needed* to, but this project cries out for something far less
>> opaque than we are used to dealing with in these parts...
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>
> Jake Freivald wrote:
> > I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
> > a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
> > understand the history and theory, too. ...
>
> This looks like a fine, ambitious project. But the outline titles
> suggest the necessity to pursue the matter for dozens of pages per
> subject along with ample demonstrations.
>
> Oz.

/tuning/topicId_96123.html#96261

--George

I think Jones and Secor would make a superb team. -Carl

At 11:12 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
>
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>>
>> Jake Freivald wrote:
>> > I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
>> > a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
>> > understand the history and theory, too. ...
>>
>> This looks like a fine, ambitious project. But the outline titles
>> suggest the necessity to pursue the matter for dozens of pages per
>> subject along with ample demonstrations.
>>
>> Oz.
>
>/tuning/topicId_96123.html#96261
>
>--George
>

Dear George, I had missed your message there. Thanks for pointing it
out! I would indeed very much like to see what becomes of your
long-overdue book, since I'm sure you have done a great deal better on
explaining the xentonal havens compared to the orthodox minds running
the scene.

Cordially,
Oz.

--

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

gdsecor wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman<ozanyarman@...> wrote:
>> Jake Freivald wrote:
>>> I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
>>> a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
>>> understand the history and theory, too. ...
>> This looks like a fine, ambitious project. But the outline titles
>> suggest the necessity to pursue the matter for dozens of pages per
>> subject along with ample demonstrations.
>>
>> Oz.
>
> /tuning/topicId_96123.html#96261
>
> --George
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
> >
> >--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jake Freivald wrote:
> >> > I would love to see a book on tuning theory. I understand the need for
> >> > a book that is for players, but I'd want something that helped me
> >> > understand the history and theory, too. ...
> >>
> >> This looks like a fine, ambitious project. But the outline titles
> >> suggest the necessity to pursue the matter for dozens of pages per
> >> subject along with ample demonstrations.
> >>
> >> Oz.
> >
> At 11:12 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote:
> >
> >/tuning/topicId_96123.html#96261
> >
> >--George
>
> I think Jones and Secor would make a superb team. -Carl

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Carl.

Igs & I each have a different perspective about tunings and the approaches we favor, which I think is highly desirable, and I would strongly encourage him to contribute at least a chapter on oft-overlooked EDO's, and definitely a sound file or two (or three!) using these tunings. (Another worthy candidate for this topic would be Herman Miller.)

I won't have much time to work on The Book for a while, so I don't know when I'll have something ready for others to read & critique, but you're all welcome to offer your comments when the time comes, and if anyone out there wants to help me with some specific topic in which you have special interest or expertise, don't hesitate to do so.

Until then, stay in tune!

--George