My version of last year's UnTwelve

I was threatening to do my own UnTwelve judging, but probably won't be able to since only the finalists are going to be made available. All Judgments Are Final! So I turned to last year, which has the same problem. I understand George entered something; it would be nice to hear that. Of the five finalists from last year, I rate them as follows:

1. Donald Craig "Little Suite in 19"
2. Petr Parizek "Dinepome's Adventure"
3. Andrew Allen "Alcestis' Departure from Lemon Island"
4. Adrian Pertout "Sesenta cuatro campanas"
5. Paul Rubenstein "5-10-15"

What do people think were some of the other good entries from last year, and where can they be found, if anywhere?

You can get in big trouble doing this kind of thing, Gene.

My top four from last year (based on blind listening) were:
1. George Secor
2. Donald Craig
3. Petr Parizek
4. Paul Rubinstein

-Carl

At 06:52 PM 1/22/2011, you wrote:
>I was threatening to do my own UnTwelve judging, but probably won't be
>able to since only the finalists are going to be made available. All
>Judgments Are Final! So I turned to last year, which has the same
>problem. I understand George entered something; it would be nice to
>hear that. Of the five finalists from last year, I rate them as follows:
>
>1. Donald Craig "Little Suite in 19"
>2. Petr Parizek "Dinepome's Adventure"
>3. Andrew Allen "Alcestis' Departure from Lemon Island"
>4. Adrian Pertout "Sesenta cuatro campanas"
>5. Paul Rubenstein "5-10-15"
>
>What do people think were some of the other good entries from last
>year, and where can they be found, if anywhere?
>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
>
> You can get in big trouble doing this kind of thing, Gene.
>
> My top four from last year (based on blind listening) were:
> 1. George Secor
> 2. Donald Craig
> 3. Petr Parizek
> 4. Paul Rubinstein

So I didn't like Rubinstein. What kind of trouble will that land me in?

Carl>" You can get in big trouble doing this kind of thing, Gene.
My top four from last year (based on blind listening) were:
1. George Secor
2. Donald Craig
3. Petr Parizek
4. Paul Rubinstein"

I don't quite understand what appears to be a very closed judging policy
judging by that comment IE the idea that suggesting possible improvements to
judging system's workings is somehow a vicious act.

If I had it my way the judging would be done by something more like 30
people and of very diverse listening habits, built to eliminate bias of judges
toward/against any genres or styles. Plus the judges would be evenly comprised
of both non-microtonal and microtonal music lovers. The idea would be both to
get an idea how the songs would fair among current microtonalists and how much
they would attract people not already on the scene to microtonality.

If I could get links to all the mp3's in last year's contest...I'd love to
give a go on rating them myself. :-D

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:

> I don't quite understand what appears to be a very closed judging policy
> judging by that comment IE the idea that suggesting possible improvements to
> judging system's workings is somehow a vicious act.

Who suggested that?

> If I had it my way the judging would be done by something more like 30
> people and of very diverse listening habits, built to eliminate bias of judges
> toward/against any genres or styles.

If I had my way the judging would be any way the judges wanted it to be, but all it would be for is deciding who gets a prize and a dark concert performance. It would not affect which music gets hosted, which is totally lame IMHO.

> If I could get links to all the mp3's in last year's contest...I'd love to
> give a go on rating them myself. :-D

I wish we could. When I looked at it before, I was surprised at how few entries there were, and didn't realize they were shitcanning the work of people like George Secor. How many people did enter last year, I wonder?

Having your way (both of you) is as easy as organizing your own contest.

Crap, I was able to do it so anyone can.

If you organize your own contest then you can make the conditions to
ba anything you'd wish. You could even ask for donations to generate
worthy monetary prizes too.

And I'll tell you what - organize the contest and I'll give you space
on my website to host the contestant songs - though you could very
well do what Jacques and company did and use dropbox and not need
anyone else.

I'll just say - you can do it - but it will take work to make it
successful and I count success by the number of of entries you can
get.

This is with no sarcasm - as I said - I did it with only $35 in prizes
and got quite a few entries.

Chris
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 6:23 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:

>
> > If I had it my way the judging would be done by something more like 30
> > people and of very diverse listening habits, built to eliminate bias of judges
> > toward/against any genres or styles.
>
> If I had my way the judging would be any way the judges wanted it to be, but all it would be for is deciding who gets a prize and a dark concert performance. It would not affect which music gets hosted, which is totally lame IMHO.
>
> > If I could get links to all the mp3's in last year's contest...I'd love to
> > give a go on rating them myself. :-D
>
> I wish we could. When I looked at it before, I was surprised at how few entries there were, and didn't realize they were shitcanning the work of people like George Secor. How many people did enter last year, I wonder?

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> This is with no sarcasm - as I said - I did it with only $35 in prizes
> and got quite a few entries.

I support this. We need as many contests as possible.

Sincerely,
Mike "Bitter That I Missed The Untwelve Deadline" Battaglia

Me>> I don't quite understand what appears to be a very closed judging
policy

>> judging by that comment IE the idea that suggesting possible improvements to
>> judging system's workings is somehow a vicious act.
Gene>"Who suggested that?"
Carl's reply to your alternative rankings for last year's compo, which said
something akin to "people have gotten into big trouble for that...", kind of
seemed to.

________________________________
From: genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 5:23:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] My version of last year's UnTwelve

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:

> I don't quite understand what appears to be a very closed judging policy
> judging by that comment IE the idea that suggesting possible improvements to
> judging system's workings is somehow a vicious act.

Who suggested that?

> If I had it my way the judging would be done by something more like 30
> people and of very diverse listening habits, built to eliminate bias of judges

> toward/against any genres or styles.

If I had my way the judging would be any way the judges wanted it to be, but all
it would be for is deciding who gets a prize and a dark concert performance. It
would not affect which music gets hosted, which is totally lame IMHO.

> If I could get links to all the mp3's in last year's contest...I'd love to
> give a go on rating them myself. :-D

I wish we could. When I looked at it before, I was surprised at how few entries
there were, and didn't realize they were shitcanning the work of people like
George Secor. How many people did enter last year, I wonder?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 04:23 PM 1/23/2011, you wrote:
>Having your way (both of you) is as easy as organizing your own contest.

That's a big cop-out. If Untwelve is a nonprofit organization
interested in supporting microtonal music, they shouldn't be afraid
of engaging the community about best practices and refusal to host
the entries is just ass-puckered any way you slice it.

-Carl

A cop-out Carl? Microtonality is a field where DIY is quite possible and
still very valid.

However, I have to admit skepticism since you seem to be saying UnTwelve has
rejected the best intentions of - or totally ignored - the microtonality
community - however you are defining it.

My experience with the organizers is 180 degrees from what you are implying
so it is hard to believe that they are so out of touch.

Chris

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

>
>
> At 04:23 PM 1/23/2011, you wrote:
> >Having your way (both of you) is as easy as organizing your own contest.
>
> That's a big cop-out. If Untwelve is a nonprofit organization
> interested in supporting microtonal music, they shouldn't be afraid
> of engaging the community about best practices and refusal to host
> the entries is just ass-puckered any way you slice it.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
> Me>> I don't quite understand what appears to be a very closed judging
> policy
>
> >> judging by that comment IE the idea that suggesting possible improvements to
> >> judging system's workings is somehow a vicious act.
> Gene>"Who suggested that?"
> Carl's reply to your alternative rankings for last year's compo, which said
> something akin to "people have gotten into big trouble for that...", kind of
> seemed to.

I wasn't trying to comment on the system's workings with that post, just giving my own rankings.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
> Carl>" You can get in big trouble doing this kind of thing, Gene.
> My top four from last year (based on blind listening) were:
> 1. George Secor
> 2. Donald Craig
> 3. Petr Parizek
> 4. Paul Rubinstein"
>
> I don't quite understand what appears to be a very closed judging policy
> judging by that comment IE the idea that suggesting possible improvements to
> judging system's workings is somehow a vicious act.
>
>
> If I had it my way the judging would be done by something more like 30
> people and of very diverse listening habits, built to eliminate bias of judges
> toward/against any genres or styles. Plus the judges would be evenly comprised
> of both non-microtonal and microtonal music lovers. The idea would be both to
> get an idea how the songs would fair among current microtonalists and how much
> they would attract people not already on the scene to microtonality.
>
> If I could get links to all the mp3's in last year's contest...I'd love to
> give a go on rating them myself. :-D
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They're still up where the judges originally auditioned them in 2009:
http://www.untwelve.org/2009competition_audio/

I won't tell you who submitted which one until everyone who wishes to critique and/or comment has had a chance to do so.

--George

Aaron's message arrived just after mine. He seems open to the
idea. I don't understand why it's such a big workload, but he
seems amenable to the suggestion so all is well. -Carl

At 05:29 PM 1/23/2011, you wrote:
>A cop-out Carl? Microtonality is a field where DIY is quite possible and
>still very valid.
>
>However, I have to admit skepticism since you seem to be saying UnTwelve has
>rejected the best intentions of - or totally ignored - the microtonality
>community - however you are defining it.
>
>My experience with the organizers is 180 degrees from what you are implying
>so it is hard to believe that they are so out of touch.
>
>Chris
>

>They're still up where the judges originally auditioned them in 2009:
> http://www.untwelve.org/2009competition_audio/
>
>I won't tell you who submitted which one until everyone who wishes to
>critique and/or comment has had a chance to do so.

Never post critiques of Untwelve submissions. That's my motto. -Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "gdsecor" <gdsecor@...> wrote:

> They're still up where the judges originally auditioned them in 2009:
> http://www.untwelve.org/2009competition_audio/

Thanks, George!

Carl> "That's a big cop-out. If Untwelve is a nonprofit organization interested
in supporting microtonal music, they shouldn't be afraid of engaging the
community about best practices and refusal to host the entries is just
ass-puckered any way you slice it."

I see what you are saying...but I also see Untwelve as very supportive.
Well....supportive but highly "risk-averse" IE almost leaning toward "we won't
host you b/c you aren't in the top 10% or so of all contest entries and we're
afraid your 'bad quality work' will damage our reputation". In other words,
more supportive of the scene in the public eye than directly supportive to most
of the artists...

I think being hosted while maintaining a system that enforces quality could be
as simple for Untwelve as hosting all songs that got an average judges' rating
of 7/10 or above or so (regardless of how they 'ranked')...and listing them as
"recommended" songs at the least...if not also hosting the other songs as "other
songs".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been lurking for a while and am eager to start this DIY microtonality. I am about to buy a Mac Pro and, although there is not much discussion on hardware here, anyone has advice or recommendations for appropriate software and hardware to get to the next step, I would appreciate it and would love to start with the DIY. Please email me at howard.m.cornell@...

-----Original Message-----
From: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Vaisvil
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:30 PM
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [MMM] My version of last year's UnTwelve

A cop-out Carl? Microtonality is a field where DIY is quite possible and
still very valid.

Hi Howard,

There is a yahoo group, called Micro Made Easy, that is devoted to the
mechanics of making microtonal music - including doing so on a Mac. I
suggest you join and ask there as well.

Chris

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Cornell III, Howard M <
howard.m.cornell.iii@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have been lurking for a while and am eager to start this DIY
> microtonality. I am about to buy a Mac Pro and, although there is not much
> discussion on hardware here, anyone has advice or recommendations for
> appropriate software and hardware to get to the next step, I would
> appreciate it and would love to start with the DIY. Please email me at
> howard.m.cornell@... <howard.m.cornell%40tx.rr.com>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of Chris Vaisvil
> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:30 PM
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [MMM] My version of last year's UnTwelve
>
> A cop-out Carl? Microtonality is a field where DIY is quite possible and
> still very valid.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]