Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Phi tunings

It seems to make a very nice 36-pitch scale, with 1.618034 coming out at 833.09
cents. Just made one for myself, to play around with.

My question: Is there a Mac-based synthesizer or other program/application that
will let you make "Sethares-type" timbres with phi overtones?

I seem to recall hearing about something, but I couldn't remember what it was
called. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

caleb

________________________________
From: John H. Chalmers <JHCHALMERS@...>
To: "MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com" <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 1:13:29 PM
Subject: [MMM] Phi tunings

Phi/1 = 1.618034 approximately and 833 cents. Use a Sethares type timbre
with all the overtones at powers of phi
and you'll find that divisions of phi are quite consonant. John Chowning
used the 9th root in Stria. Walter O'Connell proposed
phi-tonality back in the 1960's. Phi is also very close to 25 degrees of
36-EDO, so one can unify both phi and octaval divisions
in this temperament.

--John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

Yes, caleb, you were thinking of 2032 & hex. If you can capture the output of
2032, or figure out how to use it as a plugin in Logic, you should be able to
make "Sethares-type" timbres.

Also, it may be possible to set the parameters of some Logic plug-ins -- such as
the rather shoddy little FM synth in Logic -- to phi ratios. (Set the FM ratio,
for example.)

Experiment! Don't worry, be happy.

Good luck.

Caleb

________________________________
From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 2:22:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Phi tunings

...
My question: Is there a Mac-based synthesizer or other program/application that

will let you make "Sethares-type" timbres with phi overtones?

...
caleb

--John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

You can capture any audio output in Mac OS X with no loss with the program
called Audio Hijack. There's a free demo which will work for 10 minutes before
making noise. You just have to restart it every 10 minutes.

So, you can play timbres with the 2032 program, capture that audio with Audio
Hijack, and then make samples in Logic that you can play with the EXS24 sampler
instrument in Logic.

There's even a free looping program available for Mac OS X.

The world is your oyster.

However, to make a sample instrument in Logic compatible with a tuning with more
than 12 notes, you have to tune each key separately inside the EXS24 instrument.
Perhaps by saving a blank EXS24 instrument "template", you need only to do this
once for any given tuning.

-c

________________________________
From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 9:39:40 AM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Phi tunings

Yes, caleb, you were thinking of 2032 & hex. If you can capture the output of
2032, or figure out how to use it as a plugin in Logic, you should be able to
make "Sethares-type" timbres.

Also, it may be possible to set the parameters of some Logic plug-ins -- such as

the rather shoddy little FM synth in Logic -- to phi ratios. (Set the FM ratio,

for example.)

Experiment! Don't worry, be happy.

Good luck.

Caleb

________________________________
From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 2:22:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Phi tunings

...
My question: Is there a Mac-based synthesizer or other program/application that

will let you make "Sethares-type" timbres with phi overtones?

...
caleb

--John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗John Moriarty <JlMoriart@...>

How are you going to use 2032 to make phi timbres? If I have this
right, phi is the farthest you can get from a rational relationship
right? But in timbre creation with dynamic tonality synths you have to
define a generator as a (usually tempered) just ratio. It also then
needs a period and a comma sequence. (Right now 2032 only has the
5-,7-, and 11-limit sequences for portions of the meantone, magic, and
hanson temperaments.) Given that, 2032 takes the generator and period
and uses the comma sequence to use combinations of them to define the
pitches of the partials in a timbre.

For example, a meantone generator is defined as 3/2, the period
usually being 1200 cents. Because 81/80=1, 5=(3/2)^4, and so 2032
defines the fifth partial as up four generators and so, with a
generator of say 700 cents, as 2800 cents above the fundamental.

But if you are trying to use phi multiples as a basis for timbre
generation through 2032, you would have to set it as the generator in
one of the temperaments where the generator is treated as an
approximation of either 3/2, 5/4, or 6/5 (meantone, magic, or hanson.)
So the timbre would come out like you were trying to use phi as an
approximation of one of those just ratios, and might be a little
spacey.

Even if you wanted to create setting for a "phi temperament" in 2032,
how would you do it? Phi is the complete lack of a rational
relationship (and therefor definable just ratio), so I don't know how
you would define a comma sequence from it.

Definitely still try to mess around with it, I just figure you should
know that I don't think the logic 2032 applies to timbre generation
using phi.

John

On 1/21/11, Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...> wrote:
> You can capture any audio output in Mac OS X with no loss with the program
> called Audio Hijack. There's a free demo which will work for 10 minutes
> before
> making noise. You just have to restart it every 10 minutes.
>
> So, you can play timbres with the 2032 program, capture that audio with
> Audio
> Hijack, and then make samples in Logic that you can play with the EXS24
> sampler
> instrument in Logic.
>
> There's even a free looping program available for Mac OS X.
>
> The world is your oyster.
>
> However, to make a sample instrument in Logic compatible with a tuning with
> more
> than 12 notes, you have to tune each key separately inside the EXS24
> instrument.
> Perhaps by saving a blank EXS24 instrument "template", you need only to do
> this
> once for any given tuning.
>
> -c
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 9:39:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Phi tunings
>
>
> Yes, caleb, you were thinking of 2032 & hex. If you can capture the output
> of
> 2032, or figure out how to use it as a plugin in Logic, you should be able
> to
> make "Sethares-type" timbres.
>
> Also, it may be possible to set the parameters of some Logic plug-ins --
> such as
>
> the rather shoddy little FM synth in Logic -- to phi ratios. (Set the FM
> ratio,
>
> for example.)
>
> Experiment! Don't worry, be happy.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Caleb
>
> ________________________________
> From: Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 2:22:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Phi tunings
>
> ...
> My question: Is there a Mac-based synthesizer or other program/application
> that
>
>
> will let you make "Sethares-type" timbres with phi overtones?
>
> ...
> caleb
>
> ________________________________
> From: John H. Chalmers <JHCHALMERS@...>
> To: "MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com" <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 1:13:29 PM
> Subject: [MMM] Phi tunings
>
> Phi/1 = 1.618034 approximately and 833 cents. Use a Sethares type timbre
> with all the overtones at powers of phi
> and you'll find that divisions of phi are quite consonant. John Chowning
> used the 9th root in Stria. Walter O'Connell proposed
> phi-tonality back in the 1960's. Phi is also very close to 25 degrees of
> 36-EDO, so one can unify both phi and octaval divisions
> in this temperament.
>
> --John
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

I think you're right--it doesn't seem like 2032 will do it.

And, yeah, it might be possible to get a few nice timbres in 2032 that one could
sample using the method I outlined.

For someone who already knows C on the Mac, that would probably be the way to
go, but I don't have time right now to learn C.

caleb

________________________________
From: John Moriarty <JlMoriart@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 10:59:40 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Phi tunings

Definitely still try to mess around with it, I just figure you should
know that I don't think the logic 2032 applies to timbre generation
using phi.

John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Phi tunings

🔗John H. Chalmers <JHCHALMERS@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>

🔗John Moriarty <JlMoriart@...>

🔗Caleb Morgan <calebmrgn@...>