Tuning popularity

You know, I think one thing that's rarely if ever addressed about tunings is this...most people, even great musicians, know next to nothing about it in the first place, and don't even recognize it as an issue. Overall, anybody (in Western culture) who plays an instrument is taught to play that instrument; but the subject of just why there are 12 equally spaced intervals in the octave is never mentioned. It's just taken for granted that the way guitars are fretted/pianos are tuned is the way it is; it's never mentioned that there are many other ways to tune. I've actually found that most folks who I've talked to about tunings think it's an interesting subject...especially younger musicians, who get a hoot out of my unusual guitars. And most of my many musician friends in Denver are well aware of what I do...but very few have gone the next step, and started doing it themselves. And...people who are into Kanye West/Lady Gaga/Taylor Swift, and the overall dominance of "pop" culture, are certainly not worried about what tunings these folks are using...but conversely, if a major pop star started using another system (or two), I'm not sure most people would even notice. Which, on one hand, would be a good thing...you could start integrating other systems into pop music, and eventually things would change. I don't think it would be a big deal at all. I keep hoping Shakira will call me to play in her band....a duet with fretless guitar and bellydancing would be nice.

There are certainly classical musicians who occasionally use various well, or circulating, temperaments for Bach and a few others...even Yo Yo Ma has had to get out of 12 eq when he recorded with Ton Koopman. But, again, it's not a subject that is talked about much at all in any sort of serious fashion...and there are no classical artists using anything but 12...probably because there are not any major works written in anything BUT 12. Well...seems to me that if folks were taught about the field of tunings from the beginning of their education, this could change. What this field needs, basically, IS education...just letting people know that there ARE other ways to tune would be a great start. And that's why it's great when people compose works in other systems, regardless of style, and get those works before the public. The more folks that are exposed to it, the better. Especially young people, who are much more open to ideas at the beginning of their musical education.

I've been hanging with Iraqi oud great Rahim Alhaj a lot this last year, and it's interesting to see his approach to tuning. He studied with Munir Bashir at the Baghdad Conservatory for 6 years, and is a first class virtuoso. He's often said there's 8 notes between Bb and B, and "we use them all." But...I asked him about how this subject was taught to him, and it was done in a very organic fashion...meaning...the pitches that are used in various maqamat are taught according to how they're used in the CONTEXT of the maqam. A note may have various pitch variations according to the needs of the maqam being performed. I don't think Rahim is conversant with ratios/etc...it wasn't taught that way. But, he can sure as hell DO it, and in the most subtle of ways. I think this has long been the approach in Arabic/Indian/Turkish music....not to say there are not folks who deal with the more intellectual side of it, either, and nothing wrong with that. Rahim uses the word "quartertones" to refer to the microtonal intervals...but, he does not mean 24 notes/octave...it's just a term to him that means the subtle variations in Arabic music.

Again, education is where it's at...I send out CD's like candy, all over the world, trying to let folks hear what I'm up to. But, getting the big mags/writers interested has been very difficult indeed, and very disappointing. If Guitar Player mag, for instance, would choose to get behind tuning issues, a whole lot of guitarists would then be made aware of the issue...of course, that doesn't mean they would all start to use other tuning systems, either, but it wouldn't hurt. Since I started studying tuning over 20 years ago, I have been greatly surprised at the overall lack of interest...apathy may be a good word. To me, using other systems would give the field of music such a greater depth of expression...and relieve the incredible sense of deja vu and repetition that I hear when listening to most music today. As a guitarist, I wonder why cats like Satriani, Holdsworth, Vernon Reid, Frisell, Mc Laughlin, and many others don't get interested...they are a group of artists who could really start a change in the perception of tunings (I've heard that McLaughlin is now using one of those tuning corrected guitars, with staggered frets). And...I still have hope that this will, indeed, happen...all it will take is one individual/group to start things rolling. I well remember the incredible musical/social changes that were started by the Beatles appearing on Ed Sullivan...who could have imagined what would follow? It can happen again, and I think it's great when folks compose in other systems. Get your works out there so the larger populace gets exposed to these new and exotic sounds...best...Hstick www.microstick.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Neil~!
Glad to hear this that McLaughlin might be coming around.
Being so into Indian music, one wonders what took him so long:)

/^_,',',',_ //^/Kraig Grady_^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

On 10/01/11 6:41 AM, Neil Haverstick wrote:
>
>
> You know, I think one thing that's rarely if ever addressed > about tunings is this...most people, even great musicians, > know next to nothing about it in the first place, and don't > even recognize it as an issue. Overall, anybody (in Western > culture) who plays an instrument is taught to play that > instrument; but the subject of just why there are 12 equally > spaced intervals in the octave is never mentioned. It's just > taken for granted that the way guitars are fretted/pianos are > tuned is the way it is; it's never mentioned that there are > many other ways to tune. I've actually found that most folks > who I've talked to about tunings think it's an interesting > subject...especially younger musicians, who get a hoot out of > my unusual guitars. And most of my many musician friends in > Denver are well aware of what I do...but very few have gone > the next step, and started doing it themselves. And...people > who are into Kanye West/Lady Gaga/Taylor Swift, and the > overall dominance of "pop" culture, are certainly not worried > about what tunings these folks are using...but conversely, if > a major pop star started using another system (or two), I'm > not sure most people would even notice. Which, on one hand, > would be a good thing...you could start integrating other > systems into pop music, and eventually things would change. I > don't think it would be a big deal at all. I keep hoping > Shakira will call me to play in her band....a duet with > fretless guitar and bellydancing would be nice.
>
> There are certainly classical musicians who occasionally use > various well, or circulating, temperaments for Bach and a few > others...even Yo Yo Ma has had to get out of 12 eq when he > recorded with Ton Koopman. But, again, it's not a subject that > is talked about much at all in any sort of serious > fashion...and there are no classical artists using anything > but 12...probably because there are not any major works > written in anything BUT 12. Well...seems to me that if folks > were taught about the field of tunings from the beginning of > their education, this could change. What this field needs, > basically, IS education...just letting people know that there > ARE other ways to tune would be a great start. And that's why > it's great when people compose works in other systems, > regardless of style, and get those works before the public. > The more folks that are exposed to it, the better. Especially > young people, who are much more open to ideas at the beginning > of their musical education.
>
> I've been hanging with Iraqi oud great Rahim Alhaj a lot this > last year, and it's interesting to see his approach to tuning. > He studied with Munir Bashir at the Baghdad Conservatory for 6 > years, and is a first class virtuoso. He's often said there's > 8 notes between Bb and B, and "we use them all." But...I asked > him about how this subject was taught to him, and it was done > in a very organic fashion...meaning...the pitches that are > used in various maqamat are taught according to how they're > used in the CONTEXT of the maqam. A note may have various > pitch variations according to the needs of the maqam being > performed. I don't think Rahim is conversant with > ratios/etc...it wasn't taught that way. But, he can sure as > hell DO it, and in the most subtle of ways. I think this has > long been the approach in Arabic/Indian/Turkish music....not > to say there are not folks who deal with the more intellectual > side of it, either, and nothing wrong with that. Rahim uses > the word "quartertones" to refer to the microtonal > intervals...but, he does not mean 24 notes/octave...it's just > a term to him that means the subtle variations in Arabic music.
>
> Again, education is where it's at...I send out CD's like > candy, all over the world, trying to let folks hear what I'm > up to. But, getting the big mags/writers interested has been > very difficult indeed, and very disappointing. If Guitar > Player mag, for instance, would choose to get behind tuning > issues, a whole lot of guitarists would then be made aware of > the issue...of course, that doesn't mean they would all start > to use other tuning systems, either, but it wouldn't hurt. > Since I started studying tuning over 20 years ago, I have been > greatly surprised at the overall lack of interest...apathy may > be a good word. To me, using other systems would give the > field of music such a greater depth of expression...and > relieve the incredible sense of deja vu and repetition that I > hear when listening to most music today. As a guitarist, I > wonder why cats like Satriani, Holdsworth, Vernon Reid, > Frisell, Mc Laughlin, and many others don't get > interested...they are a group of artists who could really > start a change in the perception of tunings (I've heard that > McLaughlin is now using one of those tuning corrected guitars, > with staggered frets). And...I still have hope that this will, > indeed, happen...all it will take is one individual/group to > start things rolling. I well remember the incredible > musical/social changes that were started by the Beatles > appearing on Ed Sullivan...who could have imagined what would > follow? It can happen again, and I think it's great when folks > compose in other systems. Get your works out there so the > larger populace gets exposed to these new and exotic > sounds...best...Hstick www.microstick.net
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>