Why 150 years? It is no longer just 324?

In the description of the site is written MakeMicroMusic, inter alia, that the system 12tET "dominated the Western music for the last 150 years. "

I think I understand the meaning of this phrase, but do not agree with the wording.
If you go back 150 years, approximately, we arrive at the english musicologist Alexander J. Ellis. It comes, that is, the division of the eighth cents in 1200.
This is certainly a turning point important in the history of music, but can not be considered, in my opinion, as the beginning of 12tET dominant position assumed by the system in the West.

I think, however, that should be considered as correct start date for this position dominant, 1686, the year in which the musicologist german Andreas Werckmeister, using "Musikalische temperature ", introduced the policy equability intervals of the octave, with the formula of twelfth root of 2 to be measured with the use of the logarithmic spiral.
If we agree that this is the milestone right, then it follows that the system is 12tET dominant position in the Western world by 324 years.
This is what I argue in my website
www.ottavanota.info
Giancarlo Dalmonte

12 ET is only theoretical system, used mainly for score writing in Western music to make it simple. And of course we can get it from electronic instruments.

But musical practice looks differently - even each piano is tuned differrently, nothing to say about orchestra, or choirs, or strings or trombones groups...

So we can talk only about more or less perfect approximation of 12 ET.

And there's always a question if this is real target to play in perfect 12 ET. Every musician knows about its problems.

Then there are many other questions connected to tuning - melodic/polymelodic music versus harmonic music, tonality versus atonality (for example dodecaphony), simple chords versus complex chords...

From this point of view what is "the perfect tuning"? JI? Maybe for simple chords, but for more complex chromatic chords probably not... And how to judge or evaluate unusual xenharmonic chords, how composer should work with them? They are not inferior to 12 JI. We are just in the very beginning of microtonal composition theory.

Daniel Forro

On 2 Dec 2010, at 8:17 PM, Giancarlo DALMONTE wrote:

> In the description of the site is written MakeMicroMusic, inter alia,
> that the system 12tET "dominated the Western music for the last 150 > years. "
>
> I think I understand the meaning of this phrase, but do not agree with
> the wording.
> If you go back 150 years, approximately, we arrive at the english
> musicologist Alexander J. Ellis. It comes, that is, the division of > the
> eighth cents in 1200.
> This is certainly a turning point important in the history of > music, but
> can not be considered, in my opinion, as the beginning of 12tET > dominant
> position assumed by the system in the West.
>
> I think, however, that should be considered as correct start date for
> this position dominant, 1686, the year in which the musicologist > german
> Andreas Werckmeister, using "Musikalische temperature ", introduced > the
> policy equability intervals of the octave, with the formula of twelfth
> root of 2 to be measured with the use of the logarithmic spiral.
> If we agree that this is the milestone right, then it follows that the
> system is 12tET dominant position in the Western world by 324 years.
> This is what I argue in my website
> www.ottavanota.info
> Giancarlo Dalmonte

What about all of Werckmeisters' other tunings?
and the fact that even if one wants 12ET one could not get it until probably 150 years ago.

/^_,',',',_ //^/Kraig Grady_^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

On 2/12/10 10:17 PM, Giancarlo DALMONTE wrote:
> In the description of the site is written MakeMicroMusic, inter alia,
> that the system 12tET "dominated the Western music for the last 150 years. "
>
> I think I understand the meaning of this phrase, but do not agree with
> the wording.
> If you go back 150 years, approximately, we arrive at the english
> musicologist Alexander J. Ellis. It comes, that is, the division of the
> eighth cents in 1200.
> This is certainly a turning point important in the history of music, but
> can not be considered, in my opinion, as the beginning of 12tET dominant
> position assumed by the system in the West.
>
> I think, however, that should be considered as correct start date for
> this position dominant, 1686, the year in which the musicologist german
> Andreas Werckmeister, using "Musikalische temperature ", introduced the
> policy equability intervals of the octave, with the formula of twelfth
> root of 2 to be measured with the use of the logarithmic spiral.
> If we agree that this is the milestone right, then it follows that the
> system is 12tET dominant position in the Western world by 324 years.
> This is what I argue in my website
> www.ottavanota.info
> Giancarlo Dalmonte
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Presumably English is not your first language. What the statement means is that 12 notes an octave equal temperament has been almost exclusively used in the "Western" musical tradition for 150 years. This date has nothing to do with when 12 note equal temperament was invented. After all, it has been invented many many times by different people and is a natural tuning for fretted instruments.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Giancarlo DALMONTE <giancarlodalmonte@...> wrote:
>
> In the description of the site is written MakeMicroMusic, inter alia,
> that the system 12tET "dominated the Western music for the last 150 years. "
>
> I think I understand the meaning of this phrase, but do not agree with
> the wording.
> If you go back 150 years, approximately, we arrive at the english
> musicologist Alexander J. Ellis. It comes, that is, the division of the
> eighth cents in 1200.
> This is certainly a turning point important in the history of music, but
> can not be considered, in my opinion, as the beginning of 12tET dominant
> position assumed by the system in the West.
>
> I think, however, that should be considered as correct start date for
> this position dominant, 1686, the year in which the musicologist german
> Andreas Werckmeister, using "Musikalische temperature ", introduced the
> policy equability intervals of the octave, with the formula of twelfth
> root of 2 to be measured with the use of the logarithmic spiral.
> If we agree that this is the milestone right, then it follows that the
> system is 12tET dominant position in the Western world by 324 years.
> This is what I argue in my website
> www.ottavanota.info
> Giancarlo Dalmonte
>