Intro and question

Hi Group,

First I wanna say I'm so glad I found this group! I have been very impressed with the quality of music people linked to. Awesome.

I'm a classically-trained harpist, and lately I've been playing around with microtonal tunings. . . I will post them as I make some recordings.

One question - does anyone know where I can get a programmable microtonal tuner that I can use to tune acoustic instruments (harp)? I've been using a regular tuner that shows the cents, and just adjusting as best as I can, but it would be amazing to be able to program it in so I could be even more exact.

Thanks, ezekiel

Funny - just two days ago I answered the same question for someone else.

here you go.

http://www.fmjsoft.com/chromatia.html

I bought it sometime ago to assist my wife in learning violin.

It is good for the modest cost.

On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Ezekiel <spikycork@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Group,
>
> First I wanna say I'm so glad I found this group! I have been very
> impressed with the quality of music people linked to. Awesome.
>
> I'm a classically-trained harpist, and lately I've been playing around with
> microtonal tunings. . . I will post them as I make some recordings.
>
> One question - does anyone know where I can get a programmable microtonal
> tuner that I can use to tune acoustic instruments (harp)? I've been using a
> regular tuner that shows the cents, and just adjusting as best as I can, but
> it would be amazing to be able to program it in so I could be even more
> exact.
>
> Thanks, ezekiel
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>I'm a classically-trained harpist, and lately I've been playing around
>with microtonal tunings. . . I will post them as I make some recordings.

Hi Ezekiel! I think you're the first harpist I've met on this list.
I don't know much about harp, but I've always suspected it might make
a natural microtonal instrument. I understand there are variations,
but don't most harps have seven pedals, one for each diatonic key?
How does the mechanism work? I imagine this could give one access to
a lot of notes, in total. I mean, the pedals change the tension on
the strings, yes? Is this change uniform, or does it target certain
strings (I expect it changes only the notes that need to be raised or
lower from one diatonic key to the next)?

Thanks!

-Carl

Harp is tuned in C flat major, and it's possible to raise each of 7 notes by half tone or whole tone. All same notes in different octaves are altered by the same pedal movement.

So there's a lot of limitations concerning chromatic music, or even microtonality.

But I can imagine easily some special basic tuning with 7 notes sequence, not C flat major, and not the same in each octave even - and then those half or whole tone alterations... AFAIK nobody had such crazy idea yet...

Daniel Forro

On 6 Jul 2010, at 7:06 AM, Carl Lumma wrote:

>> I'm a classically-trained harpist, and lately I've been playing >> around
>> with microtonal tunings. . . I will post them as I make some >> recordings.
>
> Hi Ezekiel! I think you're the first harpist I've met on this list.
> I don't know much about harp, but I've always suspected it might make
> a natural microtonal instrument. I understand there are variations,
> but don't most harps have seven pedals, one for each diatonic key?
> How does the mechanism work? I imagine this could give one access to
> a lot of notes, in total. I mean, the pedals change the tension on
> the strings, yes? Is this change uniform, or does it target certain
> strings (I expect it changes only the notes that need to be raised or
> lower from one diatonic key to the next)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Carl

Daniel Forro wrote:

>Harp is tuned in C flat major, and it's possible to raise each of 7
>notes by half tone or whole tone. All same notes in different octaves
>are altered by the same pedal movement.
>
>So there's a lot of limitations concerning chromatic music, or even
>microtonality.

On contrary, it seems virtually unlimited! Well not quite, but
certainly very powerful.

-Carl

Hi Chris and hi EzekielI m new to this list too though I m also on the tunings list, and have not been posting due to my lack of math inclinations =>
Also Chris I was not aware that your interview gets downloaded as a file into my computer, I was waiting around to listen - then I found it sitting there in my download folder, silly me.
BTW will that tuner help locate non 12tet microtones on guitar too?

Catrina

http://cdbaby.com/cd/dominacatrina

http://www.youtube.com/user/HuLiXD

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Catrina,

"BTW will that tuner help locate non 12tet microtones on guitar too?"

well, yes you can tune to any arbitrary note... however

on a 12 ET fretted guitar your best bet is to tune some strings to a note
other than standard
OR use a slide of some type which avoids the frets entirely.

AS far as tuning differently

This gentlemanYuichi Onoue has an excellent solo
his tuning scheme
http://torigoya.main.jp/audio/mp3/24guitartuning.jpg

and video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdzBfTF5os4&feature=channel

His menagerie of home made instruments and techniques are here

http://torigoya.main.jp/en_index.html

And here is an example by Max Ridgeway who tuned some strings a quarter tone
different from the usual

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmgjVLLydzU

Another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUM99Gw0jr8&feature=related

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Chris,

Yuichi is very nice person, we had a great jam-session together in December in Tokyo. BTW he works for KORG as development engineer.

Daniel Forro

On 7 Jul 2010, at 4:03 AM, Chris Vaisvil wrote:

> Hi Catrina,
>
> "BTW will that tuner help locate non 12tet microtones on guitar too?"
>
> well, yes you can tune to any arbitrary note... however
>
> on a 12 ET fretted guitar your best bet is to tune some strings to > a note
> other than standard
> OR use a slide of some type which avoids the frets entirely.
>
> AS far as tuning differently
>
> This gentlemanYuichi Onoue has an excellent solo
> his tuning scheme
> http://torigoya.main.jp/audio/mp3/24guitartuning.jpg
>
> and video
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdzBfTF5os4&feature=channel
>
> His menagerie of home made instruments and techniques are here
>
> http://torigoya.main.jp/en_index.html
>
> And here is an example by Max Ridgeway who tuned some strings a > quarter tone
> different from the usual
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmgjVLLydzU
>
>
> Another
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUM99Gw0jr8&feature=related

Chris - Thank you for that! That looks like just the thing. If only it were in a portable tuner format, but I'm happy to now have something to use.

Carl - Yes, Daniel answered your question about harp mechanism. So the pedals are limited to 12-TET.

However - though classically trained, I've been doing my microtonal stuff on a celtic harp. Some of what I've tried has different tunings for each octave. . . sounds really interesting. One thing I played around with and made some improv recordings with, is tuning the strings to the orbits of the 7 planets of classical astrology - sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars, jupiter, saturn - it's amazing how the harp resonates when tuned in this way, and it really indicates how harmonically connected the planets' orbits are.

even more exciting - there are celtic double harps - with 2 parallel sets of strings - I plan on getting one after I finish a harp project I'm working on. Normally, each set of strings is tuned the same to get some great "echo" effects - but I plan on experimenting a lot with microtones and tuning the sets differently. So you could get up to 14 notes per octave.

-

Ezekiel wrote:

>Carl - Yes, Daniel answered your question about harp mechanism. So
>the pedals are limited to 12-TET.

Egad, why? Can't they be adjusted?

-Carl

I doubt, mechanics is set to half-tones shift, it was invented that way by Erard in 19th century... There are two steps in the pedal box for each pedal and pedal is locked there in position.
But maybe it could be modified to make smaller or bigger steps, or even different sizes for each pedal and each step :-)

Daniel Forro

On 7 Jul 2010, at 1:19 PM, Carl Lumma wrote:

> Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> Carl - Yes, Daniel answered your question about harp mechanism. So
>> the pedals are limited to 12-TET.
>
> Egad, why? Can't they be adjusted?
>
> -Carl

They can be adjusted, but it would be very time-consuming. so you'd have to be willing to commit to your tuning for awhile. and harpist would probably have to hire a harp technician - it would be like getting your piano retuned microtonally.

celtic harp has levers - one on each string, can modulate string 1/2 step sharp. also can be adjusted, and a bit easier (neither i, nor the average harpist even knows how to regulate a pedal harp, but levers are fairly simple).

best solution is double celtic harp IMO.
ezekiel

That's very interesting.

I have used those planet orbit tuning also in my work Harmony of Spheres... It's very simple, like a sound cluster getting more dense in time, as notes are added, and then everything goes back in reverse order to single note...
Could you send me please your tuning, I wonder if we have used the same? If I remember well I used similar values as Joachim Berendt. I have somewhere those frequencies and a Cent table how I have detuned from 12ET.
Besides I have used distance of each planet from the Sun for time organisation.

Daniel Forro

On 7 Jul 2010, at 1:09 PM, Ezekiel wrote:

> However - though classically trained, I've been doing my microtonal > stuff on a celtic harp. Some of what I've tried has different > tunings for each octave. . . sounds really interesting. One thing > I played around with and made some improv recordings with, is > tuning the strings to the orbits of the 7 planets of classical > astrology - sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars, jupiter, saturn - it's > amazing how the harp resonates when tuned in this way, and it > really indicates how harmonically connected the planets' orbits are.
>
> even more exciting - there are celtic double harps - with 2 > parallel sets of strings - I plan on getting one after I finish a > harp project I'm working on. Normally, each set of strings is > tuned the same to get some great "echo" effects - but I plan on > experimenting a lot with microtones and tuning the sets > differently. So you could get up to 14 notes per octave.