More 5 limit JI - a fugue this time

Here's a fugue in A minor (5JI):

http://dasiimusic.com/s18

(or if your pda can't handle that page, http://dasiimusic.com/pda and
enter s18 in the form).

I upgraded my synth building program so it can handle samples as well as
ADSR synthesis. The "instrument" on this one is a synth guitar patch
combined with a sampled cigar box guitar.

--
http://DoctorOakroot.com - "rough-edged songs on quirky homemade guitars..."

> Here's a fugue in A minor (5JI):
>
> http://dasiimusic.com/s18
>

If my ears are right, then this is a comma shifting version of 5-limit JI.
Sorry but to my ears this is not really natural or pleasant.

Have you ever tried 5-limit JI without comma shifts?

Marcel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 3 May 2010 05:59, Marcel de Velde <m.develde@...> wrote:
>> Here's a fugue in A minor (5JI):
>>
>> http://dasiimusic.com/s18
>
> If my ears are right, then this is a comma shifting version of 5-limit JI.
> Sorry but to my ears this is not really natural or pleasant.
>
> Have you ever tried 5-limit JI without comma shifts?
>
> Marcel

Or not..
Hmm, maybe it's not comma shifts I'm hearing, but something else that's strange.
What's your method for using 5-limit JI?

Marcel

Not sure what comma shifting is.

The scale was constructed by choosing intervals and retuning a reference
note to each scale step. Then the resulting notes are loaded into
Dimension LE to be used as a soft-synth.

The intervals were chosen to be "in tune" in C (major and minor)... so
some intervals are out of tune in A minor (notably D-A = 40/27 in the iv
chord).

This particular patch includes a sampled guitar and a synthesized guitar.
There's something wrong with my algorithm for resampling the sampled sound
that results in a buzz in Fs below middle C. I think it has to do with
dividing by 3, but haven't figured out how to fix it yet.

> On 3 May 2010 05:59, Marcel de Velde <m.develde@...> wrote:
>>> Here's a fugue in A minor (5JI):
>>>
>>> http://dasiimusic.com/s18
>>
>> If my ears are right, then this is a comma shifting version of 5-limit
>> JI.
>> Sorry but to my ears this is not really natural or pleasant.
>>
>> Have you ever tried 5-limit JI without comma shifts?
>>
>> Marcel
>
> Or not..
> Hmm, maybe it's not comma shifts I'm hearing, but something else that's
> strange.
> What's your method for using 5-limit JI?
>
> Marcel
>

--
http://DoctorOakroot.com - "rough-edged songs on quirky homemade guitars..."

> Not sure what comma shifting is.
>

Comma shifting is if you use 81/80 stepsizes sometimes (syntonic comma) to
keep chords pure.
But you don't do this (which is good imho)

>
> The scale was constructed by choosing intervals and retuning a reference
> note to each scale step. Then the resulting notes are loaded into
> Dimension LE to be used as a soft-synth.
>
> The intervals were chosen to be "in tune" in C (major and minor)... so
> some intervals are out of tune in A minor (notably D-A = 40/27 in the iv
> chord).
>

Ok so you use a fixed 12tone scale like 1/1 16/15 9/8 6/5 5/4 4/3 45/32 3/2
8/5 5/3 9/5 15/8 2/1 ?
I think it's great you use D-A = 40/27 in C major. I've been advocating this
myself on this list for some time now!
So that's not what I'm hearing as out of tune in your song.
(though I don't see 40/27 as a correct for a fourth when you're in the
relevant minor on A)
But I think the things that jump out are certain melodic stepsizes. Are you
using steps from 15/8 to 16/15 or 45/32 to 8/5 or something like that?
(256/225 stepsize)
If so, I think it's these that sound off to me.

Marcel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nice piece!

On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 11:16 PM, <doctor@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Here's a fugue in A minor (5JI):
>
> http://dasiimusic.com/s18
>
> (or if your pda can't handle that page, http://dasiimusic.com/pda and
> enter s18 in the form).
>
> I upgraded my synth building program so it can handle samples as well as
> ADSR synthesis. The "instrument" on this one is a synth guitar patch
> combined with a sampled cigar box guitar.
>
> --
> http://DoctorOakroot.com - "rough-edged songs on quirky homemade
> guitars..."
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

F# is 45/32 and G# is 8/5 and they occur in sequence in the opening
statement of the theme, so that's a 256/225. Why is that particularly
discordant?

I'll have to listen for it and see if I can hear what you're hearing.

>> Not sure what comma shifting is.
>>
>
> Comma shifting is if you use 81/80 stepsizes sometimes (syntonic comma) to
> keep chords pure.
> But you don't do this (which is good imho)
>
>>
>> The scale was constructed by choosing intervals and retuning a reference
>> note to each scale step. Then the resulting notes are loaded into
>> Dimension LE to be used as a soft-synth.
>>
>> The intervals were chosen to be "in tune" in C (major and minor)... so
>> some intervals are out of tune in A minor (notably D-A = 40/27 in the iv
>> chord).
>>
>
> Ok so you use a fixed 12tone scale like 1/1 16/15 9/8 6/5 5/4 4/3 45/32
> 3/2
> 8/5 5/3 9/5 15/8 2/1 ?
> I think it's great you use D-A = 40/27 in C major. I've been advocating
> this
> myself on this list for some time now!
> So that's not what I'm hearing as out of tune in your song.
> (though I don't see 40/27 as a correct for a fourth when you're in the
> relevant minor on A)
> But I think the things that jump out are certain melodic stepsizes. Are
> you
> using steps from 15/8 to 16/15 or 45/32 to 8/5 or something like that?
> (256/225 stepsize)
> If so, I think it's these that sound off to me.
>
> Marcel
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
http://DoctorOakroot.com - "rough-edged songs on quirky homemade guitars..."

DoctorOakroot>"F# is 45/32 and G# is 8/5 and they occur in sequence in the opening statement of the theme, so that's a 256/225. Why is that particularly discordant?"

Just taking a glance...if I understand correctly where F is from the root tone, I don't think the comma is the problem. F# is about 1.40625. Which isn't bad far as distance from the root, but compare that interval to an octave above the root (the same issue I mentioned on the tuning thread) of (2/1) / (45/32).
Now you see a interval of 1.422222 between 45/32 and an octave over the root tone...IE a 27/19-ish interval from the root tone on the next octave. And IMVHO 27/19 is not exactly the sweetest sounding interval. Even making F# something like 1.414 (so the interval in between that tone and the octave becomes about 1.414 as well since est. 1.414 = the square root of 2) I believe should be close enough to correct the issue.

,_._,___

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh, I tried transposing (in MIDI) to Cm with the same set of scale notes
and then transposed the audio file back to Am. It definitely sounds
better. Not surprising since I chose the intervals to be good for C major
or minor.

> F# is 45/32 and G# is 8/5 and they occur in sequence in the opening
> statement of the theme, so that's a 256/225. Why is that particularly
> discordant?
>
> I'll have to listen for it and see if I can hear what you're hearing.
>
>
>>> Not sure what comma shifting is.
>>>
>>
>> Comma shifting is if you use 81/80 stepsizes sometimes (syntonic comma)
>> to
>> keep chords pure.
>> But you don't do this (which is good imho)
>>
>>>
>>> The scale was constructed by choosing intervals and retuning a
>>> reference
>>> note to each scale step. Then the resulting notes are loaded into
>>> Dimension LE to be used as a soft-synth.
>>>
>>> The intervals were chosen to be "in tune" in C (major and minor)... so
>>> some intervals are out of tune in A minor (notably D-A = 40/27 in the
>>> iv
>>> chord).
>>>
>>
>> Ok so you use a fixed 12tone scale like 1/1 16/15 9/8 6/5 5/4 4/3 45/32
>> 3/2
>> 8/5 5/3 9/5 15/8 2/1 ?
>> I think it's great you use D-A = 40/27 in C major. I've been advocating
>> this
>> myself on this list for some time now!
>> So that's not what I'm hearing as out of tune in your song.
>> (though I don't see 40/27 as a correct for a fourth when you're in the
>> relevant minor on A)
>> But I think the things that jump out are certain melodic stepsizes. Are
>> you
>> using steps from 15/8 to 16/15 or 45/32 to 8/5 or something like that?
>> (256/225 stepsize)
>> If so, I think it's these that sound off to me.
>>
>> Marcel
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> http://DoctorOakroot.com - "rough-edged songs on quirky homemade
> guitars..."
>

--
http://DoctorOakroot.com - "rough-edged songs on quirky homemade guitars..."