Pop microtones

Boy, after 20 years of studying/playing microtonally, I gotta admit I'm not as optimistic as I was at first...for whatever reasons, most folks don't seem very interested in exploring tunings. And yes, for guitarists, you do have to have an axe made/refretted, so there's some $$$ involved...keyboardists can have it easier with the right instrument, and of course horn players can learn new fingering/lip techniques. But, I'm seeing, overall, that, unfortunately, people just don't seem that interested in doing something other than 12...and that's disappointing, especially given how bland most 12 tone music sounds these days. Especially with more advanced classical/jazz type folks, I had thought other tunings were a way into new fields of composition/improvising (which they are); but, for whatever reason, it ain't happening. Of course, it still can...and yes, cats like Jay I appreciate immensely, and there are indeed folks around the world who are looking into non 12 systems, and getting into new areas with their music...hope that continues on a bigger scale.

And yes, Vai used some microtones...but, what I'd love to see is a guy like him do a whole project in another tuning system; that's what's needed. Overall, it's the younger musicians that need to be reached, cause they are usually more open to new ideas, and have the time/energy to put into it. I've played with the Colorado Symphony a lot over the years, and have got to hear a lot of newer works for Symph...sorry to say, not much happening, as so much "new" music doesn't really sound new...12 eq has been milked pretty well after 200 years, different tuning concepts would greatly enrich that field...not to mention jazz/rock/blues, just about any style. Onward, it ain't over yet...best...Hstick

www.myspace.com/microstick

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With all due respect, this issue of religious conversion of the masses to
microtonal music has come up again and again on this list and I still don't
see the issue.

"different tuning concepts would greatly enrich that field...not to mention
jazz/rock/blues, just about any style"

Why is the use of microtonal inflections in this music ignored?

Why is the long history of western music's view of "dissonance", which
starts melodically before harmonic usage ignored?

Be serious - if you expect highly dissonant sonorities to become popular
soon I'm thinking the bus never comes for you. Heaven and earth moved to
include tritones as 7ths with regularity as a consonant chord in popular
music (re blues + rock) so why would one think differently?

If you want to write popular music you need to spoon feed these new notes.
Perhaps you can get away with working in 19 or 31 or JI if you are clever
and careful.

I've heard it said - to be popular - write the same old song with a new
twist. There is the formula for "crafting" the tables and chairs that is
popular music.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Neil Haverstick <microstick@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Boy, after 20 years of studying/playing microtonally, I gotta admit I'm not
> as optimistic as I was at first...for whatever reasons, most folks don't
> seem very interested in exploring tunings. And yes, for guitarists, you do
> have to have an axe made/refretted, so there's some $$$
> involved...keyboardists can have it easier with the right instrument, and of
> course horn
>

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At 11:22 AM 3/19/2010, Chris wrote:
>
>With all due respect, this issue of religious conversion of the masses to
>microtonal music has come up again and again on this list and I still don't
>see the issue.

I'm more interested in what Hans brought up, which is how to get
microtonal music that sounds good AND noticeably microtonal.

I remember Gary Morrison talking about this years ago on the
tuning list. His solution was to use a nonoctave scale (88-CET)
and prominently use things like 1/1 9/7 3/2 triads to get the
audience's attention. On an unfortunately note, I realize just now
that I don't have any of Gary's music in a digital format. He sent
me a tape, and though I did manage to archive many of my old
cassettes digitally, it looks like his fell through the cracks. :(

I think I've already told the story of one composer friend of mine
who carefully listened to the Blackwood etudes. His assessment
was that only one of the etudes achieved something significant
that couldn't be expressed in 12. I didn't agree with him, because
subtlety IS important in music, but in the grand scheme of things
I saw his point.

-Carl

Neil>."12 eq has been milked pretty well after 200 years"
What I see now is people repeating more-or-less the same melodies and chord progressions, but with different phrasing, timbres (both instruments and effects), lyrics, and arrangements (instruments).

Hence the new "pop" music is often either rhythm or lyrics based...the art of writing fresh melodic "hooks" in 12TET has become very hard as what any new musician does is usually more-or-less 70% the melody/chord-progression of an old one, 20% rearranged themes/motifs from other musicians, and 10% fresh ideas.
There are IMVHO "fresh" 12TET musicians, but they often keep that way due to clever use of things like phrasing and orchestration. I find myself listening to "underground" electronica because at least the timbres and beat alterations are often brand-new and cutting-edge even if the tuning and melodies behind them wreak of "been-done-before-'ed-ness".

I still keep thinking the way to get pop musicians into microtonal is to make a pedal that will retune any digital audio signal on-the-fly to micro-tonal...thus enabling guitarists and such to re-tune without buying new instruments or (quite often) learning new fingering. If we make it very easily accessible, people will come.

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There is nothing on earth preventing people from singing microtonal hooks.

And I strongly disagree that "all has been written" in 12 tet - it just
isn't so.

Sampling hits from the late 60's to early 70's almost guarantees radio play
for your mash up.

It is an industry evil.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:

>
>
> N
>
> I still keep thinking the way to get pop musicians into microtonal is to
> make a pedal that will retune any digital audio signal on-the-fly to
> micro-tonal...thus enabling guitarists and such to re-tune without buying
> new instruments or (quite often) learning new fingering. If we make it very
> easily accessible, people will come.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

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Chris>"There is nothing on earth preventing people from singing microtonal hooks."
In acapella...of course not. But as soon as you have to play poly-phonically and even one other instrument you play with (and, come on, how many hit songs are monophonic?)...you're often in trouble because said instrument (IE a guitar or flute) is stuck in 12TET and you are stuck pretty near 12TET trying to harmonize with it well.

To make it really work, IMVHO, you need to re-tune all instruments to the said-new micro-tonal scale. Hence, unless all your instruments are, say, electronic and support Scala file imports, having something to put them in the same new tuning IE an "on the fly retuning pedal" or something similar would be needed...so far as I can tell.

Mike,

Think "blues" - microtonal usage within 12tet

On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 2:19 AM, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:

>
>
> Chris>"There is nothing on earth preventing people from singing microtonal
> hooks."
> In acapella...of course not. But as soon as you have to play
> poly-phonically and even one other instrument you play with (and, come on,
> how many hit songs are monophonic?)...you're often in trouble because said
> instrument (IE a guitar or flute) is stuck in 12TET and you are stuck pretty
> near 12TET trying to harmonize with it well.
>
> To make it really work, IMVHO, you need to re-tune all instruments to the
> said-new micro-tonal scale. Hence, unless all your instruments are, say,
> electronic and support Scala file imports, having something to put them in
> the same new tuning IE an "on the fly retuning pedal" or something similar
> would be needed...so far as I can tell.
>
>

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