Reaper users on MMM?

Hey...

Carl mentioned Reaper. I'm in a quandary.

I want to do some composing and music production this spring, and I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade Sonar from 6.0 to 8.5, or to consider another platform like Reaper. I'd love to hear from people who have actually done full projects on Reaper as to their thoughts on workflow, the tools that come with it, etc.

I'm putting it on my workstation this week, but it may need more than just lower cost to beat out popping for a Sonar upgrade. Having V-Tune and Beat Detective are sounding pretty nice to me right now, but if I could find similar tools for Reaper... hmmm.

Cheers,
Jon

Hi Jon,

I think Reaper is easier to use. Sonar's a great product though.
But no need to wring hands, there's a free demo of Reaper. Have
you tried it?

-Carl

At 07:28 PM 2/7/2010, you wrote:
>Hey...
>
>Carl mentioned Reaper. I'm in a quandary.
>
>I want to do some composing and music production this spring, and I'm
>trying to decide whether to upgrade Sonar from 6.0 to 8.5, or to
>consider another platform like Reaper. I'd love to hear from people
>who have actually done full projects on Reaper as to their thoughts on
>workflow, the tools that come with it, etc.
>
>I'm putting it on my workstation this week, but it may need more than
>just lower cost to beat out popping for a Sonar upgrade. Having V-Tune
>and Beat Detective are sounding pretty nice to me right now, but if I
>could find similar tools for Reaper... hmmm.
>
>Cheers,
>Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
> I think Reaper is easier to use. Sonar's a great product though.
> But no need to wring hands, there's a free demo of Reaper. Have
> you tried it?

I've got it sitting on a flash drive, ready to install when I've got a spare bit of time. (I actually went and got it as soon as I read your post containing it) I love that it seems to have such a small footprint, etc. I'll report back, but was still wondering... nothing like hands-on for people to let you know if they've found problems, etc.

Cheers,
Jon

I absolutely hate sonar, looking for an alternative as well. I'd love to
hear any reviews on Reaper. From what I've seen, it's like UNIX, and sonar
is like windows vista or something. Looks like it has a bit of a learning
curve to it.

-Mike

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:28 PM, jonszanto <jszanto@cox.net> wrote:

>
>
> Hey...
>
> Carl mentioned Reaper. I'm in a quandary.
>
> I want to do some composing and music production this spring, and I'm
> trying to decide whether to upgrade Sonar from 6.0 to 8.5, or to consider
> another platform like Reaper. I'd love to hear from people who have actually
> done full projects on Reaper as to their thoughts on workflow, the tools
> that come with it, etc.
>
> I'm putting it on my workstation this week, but it may need more than just
> lower cost to beat out popping for a Sonar upgrade. Having V-Tune and Beat
> Detective are sounding pretty nice to me right now, but if I could find
> similar tools for Reaper... hmmm.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to say that Sonar 8.5 is an incredible upgrade. There is extreme
value this time around - not sure why but who cares. You get more tools and
new ways of making music like the Matrix view. There are many usability
features in handling VST VSTi and audio - for instance you don't have to
restart anymore when you muck with your audio settings.

I'm running 8.5 on both quad and dual core machines and it simply rocks.

I went from 7 to 8.5 and I'm simply blown away.

Reaper seems to be a nice product - but it is something that wants to be
what Sonar is IMHO. Since you are on the upgrade path your cost is
competitive verses the value you will receive, again, imho.

Chris

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 10:28 PM, jonszanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hey...
>
> Carl mentioned Reaper. I'm in a quandary.
>
> I want to do some composing and music production this spring, and I'm
> trying to decide whether to upgrade Sonar from 6.0 to 8.5, or to consider
> another platform like Reaper. I'd love to hear from people who have actually
> done full projects on Reaper as to their thoughts on workflow, the tools
> that come with it, etc.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> I absolutely hate sonar, looking for an alternative as well. I'd love to
> hear any reviews on Reaper.

Well, I don't *hate* Sonar, it is what I'm used to (hell, I date back to Cakewalk 3.0 or something, on Windows 3.1). But I've found, especially since starting this list, that different toolsets can have an interesting (and positive) effect on my compositional/production process. Sometimes working with a new app or platform causes me to go into areas I might otherwise not. We shall see.

Cheers,
Jon

Chris,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I have to say that Sonar 8.5 is an incredible upgrade.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. In the past I've been able to download, install, and run Sonar demos alongside my current install, and maybe I should try that. I'm a little concerned about the hardware, which is about 3-4 years old. If my creative juices get stoked enough, I might get a new computer this spring.

Cheers,
Jon

I've been a user of it for not as long as you, but long enough - Cakewalk
Pro Audio 8 or something is when I started. It was great around Sonar 2.0,
but then they added skins and I feel it just has gotten slower ever since.
It's good for what it's good for, but as you said, it isn't ideal for
compositional and production purposes - at least not for me.

I wish I had a Mac so I could screw around with Logic, but I don't. If you
find a better production environment for Windows, let me know. Something to
help great a better creative environment.

At least it's better than Pro Tools, though.

-Mike

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:09 AM, jonszanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

>
>
> Mike,
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> >
> > I absolutely hate sonar, looking for an alternative as well. I'd love to
> > hear any reviews on Reaper.
>
> Well, I don't *hate* Sonar, it is what I'm used to (hell, I date back to
> Cakewalk 3.0 or something, on Windows 3.1). But I've found, especially since
> starting this list, that different toolsets can have an interesting (and
> positive) effect on my compositional/production process. Sometimes working
> with a new app or platform causes me to go into areas I might otherwise not.
> We shall see.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

you would probably want a new box - this is true.

If you want something totally different try Albeton Live => I personally
find it difficullt to use but it does have an interesting set of effects out
of the box - and my son swears by it.

Chris

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:12 AM, jonszanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

>
>
> Chris,
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have to say that Sonar 8.5 is an incredible upgrade.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. In the past I've been able to
> download, install, and run Sonar demos alongside my current install, and
> maybe I should try that. I'm a little concerned about the hardware, which is
> about 3-4 years old. If my creative juices get stoked enough, I might get a
> new computer this spring.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Live is one of the most innovative applications I've ever
seen. It is the future of user interfaces. You can see I
used it as part of the logo on Making Microtonal Tools:

http://groups.google.com/group/microtools

It has built-in tutorials that work awesome. The synths it
comes with are incredible. I don't know anything about its
microtonal support, alas, and at its heart it's still a
tracker, which is kinda limiting (still, trackers are very
powerful, and Live is their king, and I would love to hear
what some of the talented musicians here might do with it).

-Carl

At 04:59 AM 2/8/2010, you wrote:
>you would probably want a new box - this is true.
>
>If you want something totally different try Albeton Live => I personally
>find it difficullt to use but it does have an interesting set of effects out
>of the box - and my son swears by it.
>
>Chris
>

to be fair

Now that Sonar 8.5 has matrix view there isn't much I can't do in Sonar that
I could in live - outside of some excellent effects.

Also I must take issue with the tracker statement - perhaps Live started as
a tracker - however, the tracker interface is simply not there as of version
6. (Last I tried) - the piano roll is NOT a tracker interface - and it is
what you have in your logo. (and Sonar has piano roll - if you happen to be
talking about the vertical 'launch bar" that is what Sonar has now in Matrix
view)

The .scl file import for open modplug tracker (free!) is a bit buggy and I'm
working with the developers on this - however it does support its own
microtuning format just fine. So that is another alternative is a true
tracker interface is desired.

Please don't get the idea that I'm a fanatic for Sonar or OMPT - I'm just
relaying what I know about the applications.

Chris

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

>
>
> Live is one of the most innovative applications I've ever
> seen. It is the future of user interfaces. You can see I
> used it as part of the logo on Making Microtonal Tools:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/microtools
>
> It has built-in tutorials that work awesome. The synths it
> comes with are incredible. I don't know anything about its
> microtonal support, alas, and at its heart it's still a
> tracker, which is kinda limiting (still, trackers are very
> powerful, and Live is their king, and I would love to hear
> what some of the talented musicians here might do with it).
>
> -Carl
>
>
> At 04:59 AM 2/8/2010, you wrote:
> >you would probably want a new box - this is true.
> >
> >If you want something totally different try Albeton Live => I personally
> >find it difficullt to use but it does have an interesting set of effects
> out
> >of the box - and my son swears by it.
> >
> >Chris
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris wrote:

>Now that Sonar 8.5 has matrix view there isn't much I can't do in Sonar that
>I could in live - outside of some excellent effects.

I dunno. I use to work with Francis Preve, who's a Live demigod.
The workflows and routings that are possible and even natural in
Live are either just impossible in normal DAWs like Sonar, or it
would take you all day to figure them out.

>Also I must take issue with the tracker statement - perhaps Live started as
>a tracker - however, the tracker interface is simply not there as of version
>6. (Last I tried) - the piano roll is NOT a tracker interface - and it is
>what you have in your logo. (and Sonar has piano roll - if you happen to be
>talking about the vertical 'launch bar" that is what Sonar has now in Matrix
>view)

I haven't used Live since v5 I think. But what I have in my
logo is definitely the tracker. The piano roll you see there
is from the music viz application I pointed you to a few days ago.

And, if I'm not mistaken, the notation is from Hudson Lacerda's
Neo-old, done I believe in his microABC tool.

>Please don't get the idea that I'm a fanatic for Sonar or OMPT - I'm just
>relaying what I know about the applications.

No, I don't have that idea. It's great to have your opinion on
these things. You are, I'm sure, much better at it than I.

-Carl

Carl,

With all due respect I disagree - I've been tracking since '92 or 93.
The following is a modern tracker interface

http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=35970

The difference from Live is the vertical time lines where note names,
volume, panning, and effects are entered. The vertical columnar data is the
equivalent of a piano roll or music staff - with greater access to
controller data that controls the samples (or VST, VSTi nowadays)

All Live does, as far as I know, is launch samples and perhaps midi loops.
And launching samples and midi loops is what Sonar 8.5's matrix view does.

And like Live Sonar 8.5 can toss in effects and samples and even midi loops
/ snippets on the fly. I haven't tried recording live audio and midi during
a matrix view performance though I suspect that will work too.

In short - what I'm saying is Live and Sonar are much closer together and
trackers are different from Live.

PS - I'm sure Live can get complicated - Sonar now includes side bands? er
something where you can route data / effects to and from more than one
effect or output.

Again, there is a lot in Sonar 8.5 that is new. Perhaps they got shocking
sales research data? whatever the reason 8.5 is a huge upgrade. And
relatively inexpensive too.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

>
>
> Chris wrote:
>
> >Now that Sonar 8.5 has matrix view there isn't much I can't do in Sonar
> that
> >I could in live - outside of some excellent effects.
>
> I dunno. I use to work with Francis Preve, who's a Live demigod.
> The workflows and routings that are possible and even natural in
> Live are either just impossible in normal DAWs like Sonar, or it
> would take you all day to figure them out.
>
>
> >Also I must take issue with the tracker statement - perhaps Live started
> as
> >a tracker - however, the tracker interface is simply not there as of
> version
> >6. (Last I tried) - the piano roll is NOT a tracker interface - and it is
> >what you have in your logo. (and Sonar has piano roll - if you happen to
> be
> >talking about the vertical 'launch bar" that is what Sonar has now in
> Matrix
> >view)
>
> I haven't used Live since v5 I think. But what I have in my
> logo is definitely the tracker. The piano roll you see there
> is from the music viz application I pointed you to a few days ago.
>
> And, if I'm not mistaken, the notation is from Hudson Lacerda's
> Neo-old, done I believe in his microABC tool.
>
>
> >Please don't get the idea that I'm a fanatic for Sonar or OMPT - I'm just
> >relaying what I know about the applications.
>
> No, I don't have that idea. It's great to have your opinion on
> these things. You are, I'm sure, much better at it than I.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK, it's a loop-based sequencer with a vertical timeline.

-Carl

At 11:39 AM 2/8/2010, you wrote:
>Carl,
>
>With all due respect I disagree - I've been tracking since '92 or 93.
>The following is a modern tracker interface
>
>http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=35970
>
>The difference from Live is the vertical time lines where note names,
>volume, panning, and effects are entered. The vertical columnar data is the
>equivalent of a piano roll or music staff - with greater access to
>controller data that controls the samples (or VST, VSTi nowadays)
>
>All Live does, as far as I know, is launch samples and perhaps midi loops.
>And launching samples and midi loops is what Sonar 8.5's matrix view does.
>
>And like Live Sonar 8.5 can toss in effects and samples and even midi loops
>/ snippets on the fly. I haven't tried recording live audio and midi during
>a matrix view performance though I suspect that will work too.
>
>In short - what I'm saying is Live and Sonar are much closer together and
>trackers are different from Live.
>
>PS - I'm sure Live can get complicated - Sonar now includes side bands? er
>something where you can route data / effects to and from more than one
>effect or output.
>
>Again, there is a lot in Sonar 8.5 that is new. Perhaps they got shocking
>sales research data? whatever the reason 8.5 is a huge upgrade. And
>relatively inexpensive too.

I agree with that - and a very powerful one at that.
And Sonar 8.5 tries to capture some (a lot?) of that functionality.

I saw Melodyne editor with Direct Note Access on sale at guitar center (last
Friday's flyer) for <$300.
If that can do microtunings with relative ease that could be an interesting
alternative too.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

>
>
> OK, it's a loop-based sequencer with a vertical timeline.
>
> -Carl
>
>
> At 11:39 AM 2/8/2010, you wrote:
> >Carl,
> >
> >With all due respect I disagree - I've been tracking since '92 or 93.
> >The following is a modern tracker interface
> >
> >http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=35970
> >
> >The difference from Live is the vertical time lines where note names,
> >volume, panning, and effects are entered. The vertical columnar data is
> the
> >equivalent of a piano roll or music staff - with greater access to
> >controller data that controls the samples (or VST, VSTi nowadays)
> >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]