Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest

HERE WE GO!!!

The votes have been counted and double checked. And so we come to the final results. I propose before the money is paid out to wait one week, in that week people can put in their protest if I still missed a few errors in double checking the votes. Of course, the votes as they stand in my database file cannot be changed anymore, I only take on protest if I made a miscalculation or missed a vote for somebody in my file.

With that said the standing is as follows:

THE WINNER OF THE SOON $35 COMPO IS:

With 33 points, the $20 is for:

#19 Behind the sun, by Solo

With 31 points the $10 is for:

#17 Saba Storm, by Ozman Yarman

With 24 points the $5 is for:

#14 Nahkranoth-INT-1d10, by Nahkranoth

With that the money has been decided, but of course, we may never forget the other contestants

4th place: 14 points
#05 Erm Bubbles, by Screaming Egg Notion

5th place: 12 points
#09 Inside Xerxes, by Ceekayed

6th place: 10 points
#03 The Crazy Jazzbox of Funk, by Jikoo

7th place: 8 points (won tie-break by being first one to get 5 points)
#15 Loops of Lawn, by Daniel Jackson

8th place: 8 points
#02 Somewhere in 3009, by Louigi Verona

9th place: 6 points (won tie-break by getting 5 points most)
#04 Used all of the $35, by Eat Me

10th place: 6 points
#18 Step on it, by Din

11th place: 5 points
#08 Yume, by Phaze Zero

12th place: 4 points
#10 Freaks we are, by DJ Alces

13th place: 3 points
#11 A la source by Paul Legovitch

14th place: 2 points
#12 Dark Magic Mind, by Black Tiger

15th place: 1 point
#16 Hexentanz by IV65536

And then there are 4 entries who didn't get any points at all.
I still want them to have a warm applause, as even though they didn't get any votes, they took the trouble to participate with good entries, so they too deserve the honor.

#01 7-klapper, by: Jonas the Plugexpert
#07 I'll be there soon, by Likuid (TiS)
#06 Breaking the Broken, by Zan (TiS)
#13 Hot Sim Module by DJ Kujata (TiS)

I'll soon post a screenshot of my database, so you can see if I counted all votes correctly

Thanks to everyone who entered this compo, and to all who voted.
Too bad 4 votes have been rejected due to an invalid format and 14 because of fraud. That's too bad, but still we got a clear ranking.

If you see your own vote missing in my database, then it means the vote never reached me (or that is was removed/rejected in the reason stated above), and can not be counted. As said the votes as I have them are final, I only accept protest for counting/calculation errors.

Thank you

Jeroen Broks a.k.a. Tricky

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/194/screenshotvotessooncomp.png

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

A composition contest with $20, $10, $5 dollar prizes.

And a microtonal piece won.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:59 PM, dan <dasdasdva@...> wrote:

>
>
> hmmm,sorry I've been involved in other things lately and haven't been
> paying much attention to the online forums.......but out of curiosity, what
> was this anyway?
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > *Official Results are IN!
>
> >
> > *First place is Saba Storm by Ozan Yarman
> >
> > Second place is Freaks we are by dj Alces
> >
> > Third place is Behind The Sun by solo
> >
> > All data including the actual email votes for the contest can be found
> here:
> >
> > http://2009contest.soonlabel.com/contest/
> >
> > There were a large number of irregular and duplicate votes - all
> involving
> > Saba Storm.
> > However removal of these votes did not change the 1st place position.
> >
> > The next time I do a contest... IF I do one again, a solution for this
> will
> > be found.
> > In the end all votes that followed the requested format needed to be
> > honored.
> >
> > I will contact the winners for distribution of the prize money.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

who judged....what were the terms of entry.....etc?
thanks, just curious

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> A composition contest with $20, $10, $5 dollar prizes.
>
> And a microtonal piece won.
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 6:59 PM, dan <dasdasdva@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > hmmm,sorry I've been involved in other things lately and haven't been
> > paying much attention to the online forums.......but out of curiosity, what
> > was this anyway?
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@> wrote:
> > >
> > > *Official Results are IN!
> >
> > >
> > > *First place is Saba Storm by Ozan Yarman
> > >
> > > Second place is Freaks we are by dj Alces
> > >
> > > Third place is Behind The Sun by solo
> > >
> > > All data including the actual email votes for the contest can be found
> > here:
> > >
> > > http://2009contest.soonlabel.com/contest/
> > >
> > > There were a large number of irregular and duplicate votes - all
> > involving
> > > Saba Storm.
> > > However removal of these votes did not change the 1st place position.
> > >
> > > The next time I do a contest... IF I do one again, a solution for this
> > will
> > > be found.
> > > In the end all votes that followed the requested format needed to be
> > > honored.
> > >
> > > I will contact the winners for distribution of the prize money.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

I am not to be held responsible for you not reading my entire post.
It amazes me that you seem to be claiming a better understanding of a
contest which I ran and did not involve you.

All of the data is available for your perusal at

http://2009contest.soonlabel.com/contest/

Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money -
of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.

Chris

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Graham Breed <gbreed@...> wrote:

>
>
> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> > No offense - but what you said is basically nonsense.
>
> Er, is it? Then maybe you can explain how it differs from
> your statement "There were a large number of irregular and
> duplicate votes".
>
> Graham
>
>
> > On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Graham Breed <gbreed@...<gbreed%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> dan wrote:
> >>> who judged....what were the terms of entry.....etc?
> >>> thanks, just curious
> >> The award was decided by popular vote. Official sources
> >> have declared Ozan Yarman to be the victor, but opposition
> >> leaders point to irregularities in the ballot. Independent
> >> monitors have yet to deliver their verdict.
> >>
> >> Graham
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

>> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money -
>> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
>Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!

General comment, how is micro-tonalism going to succeed if artists within it keep doubting and attacking each other like this?!
IMVHO "killing the 'bad people' in an art" is never a good way to make something better.

Graham, seriously...if you think you can do a better job than Ozan, please enter the next contest and do (or attempt to do) so.
IMVHO, there is no problem with competition, but there's a huge problem with the idea of shooting down someone's attempt at doing something you have not even tried to do yourself. It seems obvious to me we should be trying to better each other's efforts in terms of improving our music and raising the bar, not trying to drop it on each other.

________________________________
From: Graham Breed <gbreed@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 5:13:27 AM
Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> I am not to be held responsible for you not reading my entire post.
> It amazes me that you seem to be claiming a better understanding of a
> contest which I ran and did not involve you.

I did read your post. I don't claim to understand anything
better than you.

> All of the data is available for your perusal at
>
> http://2009contest. soonlabel. com/contest/

How nice!

> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money -
> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.

Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!

Now, are you going to tell us why you insulted me?

Graham

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

Michael (myself) wrote:
> Easy example, Carl; you agree Ozan made a good effort, right?
>Then why should anyone start flaming him by saying things like it's a
>crying shame he got an award (which is essentially what Graham said)?

Carl>WHERE did Graham say ANYTHING like that??
----------------------------------------
Well Carl, look below:

Graham> "Er, is it? Then maybe you can explain how it differs from
your statement "There were a large number of irregular and duplicate votes".

Chris> "All of the data is available for your perusal athttp://2009contest. soonlabel. com/contest/""

Graham> "How nice!"

Chris> "Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money - of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago."

Graham> "Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!"

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but it sure sounds like (from said above posts) Graham is being flamboyantly sarcastic (especially considering he apparently never apologized)...saying it's a shame Ozan won and that it seems like he won by cheating IE the irregular votes were not accounted for ethically.

So it sure looks like Chris gave out all the info he could (note, the link explains how duplicates were eliminated from the final vote), and yet somehow that effort apparently "wasn't enough".

Regardless of if (or how much) I may have misinterpretted Graham, I say let's give Chris and Jereon AKA Tricky some effort for setting up and judging the contest with so much effort toward fairness and Ozan for putting microtonality at the top of it. :-)

__,_._,__

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

Unfortunately, in-fighting seems to be the greatest/least common denominator of most niche groups/forums. Sometimes it's almost kinda sorta healthy, but traditionally it's petty and particularly hard to stomach or fathom if you're a step or two outside the magnetic vacuum of it all. Anyway, sorry to see this question turned ugly---

In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
> Carl>"Has everybody lost their minds? Aaaaah!"
> Well, what's so crazy about my point "don't insult people for their lack of ability to do things you haven't made the effort to do yourself?"
> My point is, some of the elitism going around here is both annoying and hypocritical and certainly not helping anything "move forward".
>
> Easy example, Carl; you agree Ozan made a good effort, right? Then why should anyone start flaming him by saying things like it's a crying shame he got an award (which is essentially what Graham said)? I just wish the hypocritical fighting would stop...we artists should be SUPPORTING each other, right?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Carl Lumma <carl@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 12:33:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest
>
>
> Michael wrote:
> >Graham, seriously... if you think you can do a better job than Ozan,
>
> Has everybody lost their minds? Aaaaah!
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

🔗christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...>

I seriously doubt I will offer entry to any future SoOn contest to the microtonal people. Not only did they not take advantage of a great cross-over opportunity I've received lots of grief for offering it. (Not everyone to be sure - but.... to the good folks look at it from my perspective. )

Except for many emails and private messages concerning the fairness of the votes no one in the module scene gave me grief. The 2nd and 3rd place winners have requested that I keep the prize money because they didn't enter for the money.

And to be honest it was the success it was by my posting daily or more and answering questions to some 9 music sites - which was a pain in the behind. I'm not going to work like that for people like Graham to try to pick a fight. I'd like to point out that excepting one post about spam on 1 site, which was retracted after an explanation, no one else gave me grief except right here in microtonal land.

Just like the conversation concerning the rights to songs played on 81/80 too many of you are full of yourselves if I am to be blunt. Making music should be a fun endeavor that takes serious study - not a serious endeavor that requires huge egos and people whose joy in life is to deflate those egos.

I've really had it - I've tried to tough it out both here and in [tuning] and frankly the amount of knowledge I'm gathering is vastly out weighed by the petty fights, swearing, and egotistical rants. I no longer allow the groups to be sent to my inbox.

And Ozan argued with me incessantly in email even after politely being asked to drop it. About things as important as Tricky misspelling his name in the original announcement. Even after I distributed the money - which I did within minutes of receiving his "bill" in paypal demanding payment - he continued to argue about nonsense. What I gather is that he wants some sort of legitimization of his victory. As far as I am concerned it WAS ligit - but apparently it is not in Ozan's mind. Interpret that as you will.

And finally - Prent Rodgers I challenge you to make music in 12 equal as good as these entries. Frankly I find your use of slides contrite and just a way to obfuscate the microtonality which isn't working. And one more thing in mind - to the crisis of Carl posting his contest judging notes - if you don't want to hear critiques of your music than I strong suggest NOT posting it on the internet.... its only common sense.

Thank you and I hope some of you seriously consider psychiatric help.

Chris

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...> wrote:
>
> >> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money -
> >> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
> >Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
>
> General comment, how is micro-tonalism going to succeed if artists within it keep doubting and attacking each other like this?!
> IMVHO "killing the 'bad people' in an art" is never a good way to make something better.
>
> Graham, seriously...if you think you can do a better job than Ozan, please enter the next contest and do (or attempt to do) so.
> IMVHO, there is no problem with competition, but there's a huge problem with the idea of shooting down someone's attempt at doing something you have not even tried to do yourself. It seems obvious to me we should be trying to better each other's efforts in terms of improving our music and raising the bar, not trying to drop it on each other.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Graham Breed <gbreed@...>
> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 5:13:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest
>
>
> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> > I am not to be held responsible for you not reading my entire post.
> > It amazes me that you seem to be claiming a better understanding of a
> > contest which I ran and did not involve you.
>
> I did read your post. I don't claim to understand anything
> better than you.
>
> > All of the data is available for your perusal at
> >
> > http://2009contest. soonlabel. com/contest/
>
> How nice!
>
> > Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money -
> > of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
>
> Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
>
> Now, are you going to tell us why you insulted me?
>
> Graham
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

Dear members,

I am extremely sad to witness the emotional state Mr. Christopher
Vaisvil is undergoing. It is quite unfortunate that he feels this way
about the majority of the microtonal community and particularly myself
despite the good will I have extended towards him.

It is quite inconceivable that a person with a healthy state of mind
would react so harshly towards earnest concerns voiced out for the
betterment of possible future endeavours in the musical arena. What
Mr. Vaisvil defines as "my incessant arguing" was me sharing my
consternation with the voting process in case Mr. Vaisvil would
consider sponsoring a similar event in the future. The increasing tone
of my concerns reflected my distress after Mr. Chris Vaisvil implied
that the Turkish vote did not listen to the songs, therefore
insinuated that "The Saba Storm" won first place with fraud, and that I should drop the subject.

It was disconcerting enough that Mr. Vaisvil, after all this,
complained that even I was not satisfied with the results. Now he says
that the results are legitimate. I only wish he made this point very
clear from the beginning in his announcement. But Instead of easing
the worries, I fear he has exacerbated them. His latest attitude does
not in the least help lessen the tension.

Frankly, I do not believe I deserve any of Mr. Vaisvil's reactions. I
do not believe Graham or Prent or Michael deserves this outburst. And
the latest inadvertent portrayal of my person as a greedy, covetous
scoundral demanding payment for deeds implied as undeserved, even for
such trifling a sum as 20 USD, is blood-curdling. In my mind, I only
had the intention to facilitate the payment process for Mr. Vaisvil
after he requested my paypal account information. I never used Paypal
before to receive a transaction, and in requesting payment from Mr.
Chris Vaisvil for what he said he owed me, I was the one paying for
the transaction charges. Besides, I did not keep the money, not one
dime, for I have donated it to charity after witnessing Mr. Vaisvil's
most perplexing demeanor.

Again, I wish to express my sadness about all that happened.

I hope I have elucidated my position and vindicated my fairness.

Cordially,
Oz.

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

On Nov 12, 2009, at 5:15 PM, christopherv wrote:

> I seriously doubt I will offer entry to any future SoOn contest to
> the microtonal people. Not only did they not take advantage of a
> great cross-over opportunity I've received lots of grief for
> offering it. (Not everyone to be sure - but.... to the good folks
> look at it from my perspective. )
>
> Except for many emails and private messages concerning the fairness
> of the votes no one in the module scene gave me grief. The 2nd and
> 3rd place winners have requested that I keep the prize money because
> they didn't enter for the money.
>
> And to be honest it was the success it was by my posting daily or
> more and answering questions to some 9 music sites - which was a
> pain in the behind. I'm not going to work like that for people like > Graham to try to pick a fight. I'd like to point out that excepting
> one post about spam on 1 site, which was retracted after an
> explanation, no one else gave me grief except right here in
> microtonal land.
>
> Just like the conversation concerning the rights to songs played on
> 81/80 too many of you are full of yourselves if I am to be blunt.
> Making music should be a fun endeavor that takes serious study - not
> a serious endeavor that requires huge egos and people whose joy in
> life is to deflate those egos.
>
> I've really had it - I've tried to tough it out both here and in
> [tuning] and frankly the amount of knowledge I'm gathering is vastly
> out weighed by the petty fights, swearing, and egotistical rants. I
> no longer allow the groups to be sent to my inbox.
>
> And Ozan argued with me incessantly in email even after politely
> being asked to drop it. About things as important as Tricky
> misspelling his name in the original announcement. Even after I
> distributed the money - which I did within minutes of receiving his
> "bill" in paypal demanding payment - he continued to argue about
> nonsense. What I gather is that he wants some sort of legitimization
> of his victory. As far as I am concerned it WAS ligit - but
> apparently it is not in Ozan's mind. Interpret that as you will.
>
> And finally - Prent Rodgers I challenge you to make music in 12
> equal as good as these entries. Frankly I find your use of slides
> contrite and just a way to obfuscate the microtonality which isn't
> working. And one more thing in mind - to the crisis of Carl posting
> his contest judging notes - if you don't want to hear critiques of
> your music than I strong suggest NOT posting it on the internet....
> its only common sense.
>
> Thank you and I hope some of you seriously consider psychiatric help.
>
> Chris
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@...>
> wrote:
>>
>>>> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the
>>>> prize money -
>>>> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
>>> Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
>>
>> General comment, how is micro-tonalism going to succeed if artists
>> within it keep doubting and attacking each other like this?!
>> IMVHO "killing the 'bad people' in an art" is never a good way to
>> make something better.
>>
>> Graham, seriously...if you think you can do a better job than Ozan,
>> please enter the next contest and do (or attempt to do) so.
>> IMVHO, there is no problem with competition, but there's a huge
>> problem with the idea of shooting down someone's attempt at doing
>> something you have not even tried to do yourself. It seems
>> obvious to me we should be trying to better each other's efforts in
>> terms of improving our music and raising the bar, not trying to
>> drop it on each other.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Graham Breed <gbreed@...>
>> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 5:13:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest
>>
>>
>> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>> I am not to be held responsible for you not reading my entire post.
>>> It amazes me that you seem to be claiming a better understanding
>>> of a
>>> contest which I ran and did not involve you.
>>
>> I did read your post. I don't claim to understand anything
>> better than you.
>>
>>> All of the data is available for your perusal at
>>>
>>> http://2009contest. soonlabel. com/contest/
>>
>> How nice!
>>
>>> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the
>>> prize money -
>>> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
>>
>> Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
>>
>> Now, are you going to tell us why you insulted me?
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

>And to be honest it was the success it was by my posting daily or more
>and answering questions to some 9 music sites - which was a pain in
>the behind. I'm not going to work like that for people like Graham to
>try to pick a fight.

I'm an outsider to this whole thing, but Chris, have you considered
the possibility that you misinterpreted Graham's message?

>And finally - Prent Rodgers I challenge you to make music in 12 equal
>as good as these entries. Frankly I find your use of slides contrite
>and just a way to obfuscate the microtonality which isn't working.

FWIW, in my opinion Prent's music is already better than any of
the Soon entries. I think the microtonality works well, and I think
his music would still be good in 12. I think this is true of his
music from the late '90s, before he started using slides, and I like
the slides. Too much electronic music is born of a keyboard or
keyboard mentality (the only instrument with discrete notes).
Either that, or pitch control is thrown out the window altogether.
Prent's slides aren't a huge leap away from keyboardism, but they
work OK for me. And generally his stuff has lightyears more going
on in it than tracker-based stuff.

One criticism of Prent's stuff is that it all kinda sounds the same.
Still, I've been very impressed by his ability to continually make
subtle refinements over the years.

That's not to say the Soon entries were bad - I don't mean that
at all.

I thought Ozan's piece was nice, though I found the thunder and
lightning a bit tacky (OK, it does fit the theme). Importantly,
while I welcome Dr Oz, I hope he doesn't completely abandon the
qanun, or the piano or Western orchestra. In fact I know I'm not
the only hoping to hear more of the 79-tone qanun.

-Carl

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

Not that anyone asked my opinion, or that it even means much of anything whatsoever..... And though I admit i've only followed this thread casually, and didn't even know about until a few days ago, from what i have seen I really can't blame Chris for letting loose.

That said, i also think it's a shame that it all has to get so personal....and even though i've almost had to bite my own tongue off not to do so, I'm somewhat happy looking back to say that in the decade plus that I've contributed to these many forums and their many offshoots and broken brethren, I've never once ever insulted anyone else's music-----even in the course of sometimes bitter disagreements that ground right to the core of what one personally believes and holds near-and dear.

In a situation like this one, it is of course hard to know all the facts, and it is ALWAYS easy to get overexcited and defensive, especially in these types of back-and-forths which inevitably results in interpersonal meltdowns and escalating nastiness and indignation....

FWiW, I personally very much appreciate and applaud Chris and his looser, DIY community-based approach and attitude, and I hope he keeps his optimism despite the present calamity and the less than satisfying experience of having run this particular contest.... I mean it seems to me that it's seldom easy to navigate a larger body of people and their varied interests/expectations et al, but knowing that in advance might help one stay focused towards an intended and given end, especially in the case that thick-skin is neither a camouflage option nor a self-preserving, congenital disposition.

daniel

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> I seriously doubt I will offer entry to any future SoOn contest to the microtonal people. Not only did they not take advantage of a great cross-over opportunity I've received lots of grief for offering it. (Not everyone to be sure - but.... to the good folks look at it from my perspective. )
>
> Except for many emails and private messages concerning the fairness of the votes no one in the module scene gave me grief. The 2nd and 3rd place winners have requested that I keep the prize money because they didn't enter for the money.
>
> And to be honest it was the success it was by my posting daily or more and answering questions to some 9 music sites - which was a pain in the behind. I'm not going to work like that for people like Graham to try to pick a fight. I'd like to point out that excepting one post about spam on 1 site, which was retracted after an explanation, no one else gave me grief except right here in microtonal land.
>
> Just like the conversation concerning the rights to songs played on 81/80 too many of you are full of yourselves if I am to be blunt. Making music should be a fun endeavor that takes serious study - not a serious endeavor that requires huge egos and people whose joy in life is to deflate those egos.
>
> I've really had it - I've tried to tough it out both here and in [tuning] and frankly the amount of knowledge I'm gathering is vastly out weighed by the petty fights, swearing, and egotistical rants. I no longer allow the groups to be sent to my inbox.
>
> And Ozan argued with me incessantly in email even after politely being asked to drop it. About things as important as Tricky misspelling his name in the original announcement. Even after I distributed the money - which I did within minutes of receiving his "bill" in paypal demanding payment - he continued to argue about nonsense. What I gather is that he wants some sort of legitimization of his victory. As far as I am concerned it WAS ligit - but apparently it is not in Ozan's mind. Interpret that as you will.
>
> And finally - Prent Rodgers I challenge you to make music in 12 equal as good as these entries. Frankly I find your use of slides contrite and just a way to obfuscate the microtonality which isn't working. And one more thing in mind - to the crisis of Carl posting his contest judging notes - if you don't want to hear critiques of your music than I strong suggest NOT posting it on the internet.... its only common sense.
>
> Thank you and I hope some of you seriously consider psychiatric help.
>
> Chris
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@> wrote:
> >
> > >> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money -
> > >> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
> > >Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
> >
> > General comment, how is micro-tonalism going to succeed if artists within it keep doubting and attacking each other like this?!
> > IMVHO "killing the 'bad people' in an art" is never a good way to make something better.
> >
> > Graham, seriously...if you think you can do a better job than Ozan, please enter the next contest and do (or attempt to do) so.
> > IMVHO, there is no problem with competition, but there's a huge problem with the idea of shooting down someone's attempt at doing something you have not even tried to do yourself. It seems obvious to me we should be trying to better each other's efforts in terms of improving our music and raising the bar, not trying to drop it on each other.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Graham Breed <gbreed@>
> > To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 5:13:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest
> >
> >
> > Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> > > I am not to be held responsible for you not reading my entire post.
> > > It amazes me that you seem to be claiming a better understanding of a
> > > contest which I ran and did not involve you.
> >
> > I did read your post. I don't claim to understand anything
> > better than you.
> >
> > > All of the data is available for your perusal at
> > >
> > > http://2009contest. soonlabel. com/contest/
> >
> > How nice!
> >
> > > Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the prize money -
> > > of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
> >
> > Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
> >
> > Now, are you going to tell us why you insulted me?
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

Daniel,

As far as I see it, nobody in this forum has done anything so terrible
as to deserve this harsh outburst from Chris. He has been aggravated
due to things said between me and him, and unreasonably so at that as
I see it. The crux of the matter is, he could not deal with the
burdens that naturally accompany such a competition. If he has
suffered grief, so has he given a portion of that grief to people who
voiced their opinions.

Cordially,
Oz.

✩ ✩ ✩
www.ozanyarman.com

On Nov 12, 2009, at 11:51 PM, dan wrote:

> Not that anyone asked my opinion, or that it even means much of
> anything whatsoever..... And though I admit i've only followed this
> thread casually, and didn't even know about until a few days ago,
> from what i have seen I really can't blame Chris for letting loose.
>
> That said, i also think it's a shame that it all has to get so
> personal....and even though i've almost had to bite my own tongue
> off not to do so, I'm somewhat happy looking back to say that in the> decade plus that I've contributed to these many forums and their
> many offshoots and broken brethren, I've never once ever insulted
> anyone else's music-----even in the course of sometimes bitter
> disagreements that ground right to the core of what one personally
> believes and holds near-and dear.
>
> In a situation like this one, it is of course hard to know all the
> facts, and it is ALWAYS easy to get overexcited and defensive,
> especially in these types of back-and-forths which inevitably
> results in interpersonal meltdowns and escalating nastiness and
> indignation....
>
> FWiW, I personally very much appreciate and applaud Chris and his
> looser, DIY community-based approach and attitude, and I hope he
> keeps his optimism despite the present calamity and the less than
> satisfying experience of having run this particular contest.... I
> mean it seems to me that it's seldom easy to navigate a larger body
> of people and their varied interests/expectations et al, but knowing
> that in advance might help one stay focused towards an intended and
> given end, especially in the case that thick-skin is neither a
> camouflage option nor a self-preserving, congenital disposition.
>
> daniel
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "christopherv"
> <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>>
>> I seriously doubt I will offer entry to any future SoOn contest to
>> the microtonal people. Not only did they not take advantage of a
>> great cross-over opportunity I've received lots of grief for
>> offering it. (Not everyone to be sure - but.... to the good folks
>> look at it from my perspective. )
>>
>> Except for many emails and private messages concerning the fairness
>> of the votes no one in the module scene gave me grief. The 2nd and
>> 3rd place winners have requested that I keep the prize money
>> because they didn't enter for the money.
>>
>> And to be honest it was the success it was by my posting daily or
>> more and answering questions to some 9 music sites - which was a
>> pain in the behind. I'm not going to work like that for people like
>> Graham to try to pick a fight. I'd like to point out that excepting
>> one post about spam on 1 site, which was retracted after an
>> explanation, no one else gave me grief except right here in
>> microtonal land.
>>
>> Just like the conversation concerning the rights to songs played on
>> 81/80 too many of you are full of yourselves if I am to be blunt.
>> Making music should be a fun endeavor that takes serious study -
>> not a serious endeavor that requires huge egos and people whose
>> joy in life is to deflate those egos.
>>
>> I've really had it - I've tried to tough it out both here and in
>> [tuning] and frankly the amount of knowledge I'm gathering is
>> vastly out weighed by the petty fights, swearing, and egotistical
>> rants. I no longer allow the groups to be sent to my inbox.
>>
>> And Ozan argued with me incessantly in email even after politely
>> being asked to drop it. About things as important as Tricky
>> misspelling his name in the original announcement. Even after I
>> distributed the money - which I did within minutes of receiving his
>> "bill" in paypal demanding payment - he continued to argue about
>> nonsense. What I gather is that he wants some sort of
>> legitimization of his victory. As far as I am concerned it WAS
>> ligit - but apparently it is not in Ozan's mind. Interpret that as
>> you will.
>>
>> And finally - Prent Rodgers I challenge you to make music in 12
>> equal as good as these entries. Frankly I find your use of slides
>> contrite and just a way to obfuscate the microtonality which isn't
>> working. And one more thing in mind - to the crisis of Carl posting
>> his contest judging notes - if you don't want to hear critiques of
>> your music than I strong suggest NOT posting it on the internet....
>> its only common sense.
>>
>> Thank you and I hope some of you seriously consider psychiatric help.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Michael <djtrancendance@>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the
>>>>> prize money -
>>>>> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
>>>> Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
>>>
>>> General comment, how is micro-tonalism going to succeed if artists
>>> within it keep doubting and attacking each other like this?!
>>> IMVHO "killing the 'bad people' in an art" is never a good way to
>>> make something better.
>>>
>>> Graham, seriously...if you think you can do a better job than
>>> Ozan, please enter the next contest and do (or attempt to do) so.
>>> IMVHO, there is no problem with competition, but there's a huge
>>> problem with the idea of shooting down someone's attempt at doing
>>> something you have not even tried to do yourself. It seems
>>> obvious to me we should be trying to better each other's efforts
>>> in terms of improving our music and raising the bar, not trying to
>>> drop it on each other.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Graham Breed <gbreed@>
>>> To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 5:13:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [MMM] Re: Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
>>>> I am not to be held responsible for you not reading my entire post.
>>>> It amazes me that you seem to be claiming a better understanding
>>>> of a
>>>> contest which I ran and did not involve you.
>>>
>>> I did read your post. I don't claim to understand anything
>>> better than you.
>>>
>>>> All of the data is available for your perusal at
>>>>
>>>> http://2009contest. soonlabel. com/contest/
>>>
>>> How nice!
>>>
>>>> Have at it. The contest is over except for distribution of the
>>>> prize money -
>>>> of which Ozan was just paid seconds ago.
>>>
>>> Yes, it's a shame but never mind that. How nice!
>>>
>>> Now, are you going to tell us why you insulted me?
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Results for the $35 SoOn composition contest

🔗christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗Michael <djtrancendance@...>

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

🔗christopherv <chrisvaisvil@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗dan <dasdasdva@...>

🔗Ozan Yarman <ozanyarman@...>

🔗prentrodgers <prentrodgers@...>