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The Aardvarks' Parade

🔗kylegann1955 <kgann@...>

7/14/2009 12:44:42 PM

Hello, friends,

A new microtonal piece is up:

http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3

It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1 through 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that Warren Burt has also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:

http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html

Hope you enjoy it.

Yours,

Kyle

🔗Carlo Serafini <carlo@...>

7/14/2009 3:11:44 PM

I find it fascinating! All the microvariations from one repetition to another do not alter the basic motionless mood of the piece. This kind of pieces make me expect that sooner or later something will happen but instead the piece just keeps going until it ends.
Good strategy!

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> wrote:

> http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

7/14/2009 3:59:52 PM

I like it too. As for motionless -- there's no need to go anywhere if you're already there! (Hmmm, that might just sum up minimalism and post-minimalism.) Anyway, I'm a sucker for a good ostinato.

Kyle, I like that little "blues-note" gesture that recurs in the melody. I'm imagining a version performed by the Sun Ra Arkestra, in Indian costumes.

- Dave

Carlo Serafini wrote:
> I find it fascinating! All the microvariations from one repetition to another do not alter the basic motionless mood of the piece. This kind of pieces make me expect that sooner or later something will happen but instead the piece just keeps going until it ends.
> Good strategy!
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> wrote:
> >> http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/14/2009 4:44:23 PM

Hi Kyle;
I can not figure out what your description of ratios used means.
you might have to just spell them out or if someone can

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

kylegann1955 wrote:
>
>
> Hello, friends,
>
> A new microtonal piece is up:
>
> http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
>
> It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1 > through 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that > Warren Burt has also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:
>
> http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>
>
> Hope you enjoy it.
>
> Yours,
>
> Kyle
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/14/2009 5:00:32 PM

I see the relation to the farey series now. it is what falls between 1/1 and 2/1 as seen on page 10 of http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF
The same as octave reducing of the 1-13 farey series. A diamond

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

7/14/2009 5:01:21 PM

Look here, Kraig:

http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2005/11/superstition_be_damned.html

Kraig Grady wrote:
> Hi Kyle;
> I can not figure out what your description of ratios used means.
> > you might have to just spell them out or if someone can

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

7/14/2009 5:03:38 PM

Oh, I should have pointed here instead, even better:

http://www.kylegann.com/Triskaidekaphonia.html

Kraig Grady wrote:
> Hi Kyle;
> I can not figure out what your description of ratios used means.
> > you might have to just spell them out or if someone can

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/14/2009 5:13:48 PM

yes a wonderful fun piece. Like an aardvark chameleon changing color with every step (like described below)

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Carlo Serafini wrote:
>
>
> I find it fascinating! All the microvariations from one repetition to > another do not alter the basic motionless mood of the piece. This kind > of pieces make me expect that sooner or later something will happen > but instead the piece just keeps going until it ends.
> Good strategy!
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> > wrote:
>
> > http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/14/2009 5:17:45 PM

no this is not a diamond but a slice of one. what appears between 1/1 and 2/1

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Kraig Grady wrote:
>
>
> I see the relation to the farey series now. it is what falls between
> 1/1 and 2/1 as seen on page 10 of http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>
> The same as octave reducing of the 1-13 farey series. A diamond
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ > <http://anaphoria.com/>>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> this evaporates - an island once again
>
> kylegann1955 wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello, friends,
> >
> > A new microtonal piece is up:
> >
> > http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>
> >
> > It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1
> > through 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that
> > Warren Burt has also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:
> >
> > > http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html> >
> > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>>
> >
> > Hope you enjoy it.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/14/2009 5:30:06 PM

if one has this chart already page 18 of http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF shows how to convert the Lambdoma into the Farey series.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Kraig Grady wrote:
>
>
> no this is not a diamond but a slice of one. what appears between 1/1
> and 2/1
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ > <http://anaphoria.com/>>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> this evaporates - an island once again
>
> Kraig Grady wrote:
> >
> >
> > I see the relation to the farey series now. it is what falls between
> > 1/1 and 2/1 as seen on page 10 of http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>
> > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>>
> > The same as octave reducing of the 1-13 farey series. A diamond
> >
> > /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> > Mesotonal Music from:
> > _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ > <http://anaphoria.com/>
> > <http://anaphoria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/>>>
> >
> > _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> > Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
> > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>>
> >
> > ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> >
> > a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> > this evaporates - an island once again
> >
> > kylegann1955 wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello, friends,
> > >
> > > A new microtonal piece is up:
> > >
> > > http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>
> > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>>
> > >
> > > It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1
> > > through 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that
> > > Warren Burt has also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html> >
> > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>> >
> >
> > >
> > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html> >
> > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>>>
> > >
> > > Hope you enjoy it.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > >
> > > Kyle
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

🔗kylegann1955 <kgann@...>

7/14/2009 5:59:07 PM

Well damn, Kraig, I just can't come up with anything that you don't already have a chart for.

Thanks for all the nice comments. I always thought Ravel's Bolero should go somewhere too, but it just doesn't. My next trick will be to write a piece using the same tuning but changing chord roots now and then, which *is* possible with this series. For now it was enough just to get my ear familar with 13/7, 13/9, 13/10, and 13/12. I've officially graduated from an 11-limit composer to a 13-limit, I think!

Sounds like an unlucky portent. I feel guilty leaving Harry Partch behind.

Cheers,

Kyle

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> if one has this chart already page 18 of http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF
> shows how to convert the Lambdoma into the Farey series.
>
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> this evaporates - an island once again
>
>
> Kraig Grady wrote:
> >
> >
> > no this is not a diamond but a slice of one. what appears between 1/1
> > and 2/1
> >
> > /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> > Mesotonal Music from:
> > _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/
> > <http://anaphoria.com/>>
> >
> > _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> > Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/
> > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
> >
> > ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> >
> > a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> > this evaporates - an island once again
> >
> > Kraig Grady wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I see the relation to the farey series now. it is what falls between
> > > 1/1 and 2/1 as seen on page 10 of http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF
> > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>
> > > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>>
> > > The same as octave reducing of the 1-13 farey series. A diamond
> > >
> > > /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> > > Mesotonal Music from:
> > > _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> > > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/
> > <http://anaphoria.com/>
> > > <http://anaphoria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/>>>
> > >
> > > _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> > > Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria
> > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/
> > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
> > > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/
> > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>>
> > >
> > > ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> > >
> > > a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> > > this evaporates - an island once again
> > >
> > > kylegann1955 wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello, friends,
> > > >
> > > > A new microtonal piece is up:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3
> > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3
> > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>
> > > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3
> > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3
> > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>>
> > > >
> > > > It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1
> > > > through 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that
> > > > Warren Burt has also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html
> > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>
> >
> > >
> > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html
> > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html
> > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>
> >
> > >
> > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html
> > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>>>
> > > >
> > > > Hope you enjoy it.
> > > >
> > > > Yours,
> > > >
> > > > Kyle
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/14/2009 6:45:03 PM

well the chart is Erv's not mine and to explore the territory is quite different from exploring it as you have done here.
Most of the people i have known to build diamonds have taken it out to 13 limits. HP had done it on paper too.

[prelude to shameless plug] Terumi Narushima (wife of this writer) is fond of the lambdoma material. i posted before her piece which uses the lambdoma/farey series out to 18 places

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

kylegann1955 wrote:
>
>
> Well damn, Kraig, I just can't come up with anything that you don't > already have a chart for.
>
> Thanks for all the nice comments. I always thought Ravel's Bolero > should go somewhere too, but it just doesn't. My next trick will be to > write a piece using the same tuning but changing chord roots now and > then, which *is* possible with this series. For now it was enough just > to get my ear familar with 13/7, 13/9, 13/10, and 13/12. I've > officially graduated from an 11-limit composer to a 13-limit, I think!
>
> Sounds like an unlucky portent. I feel guilty leaving Harry Partch behind.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kyle
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, Kraig Grady > <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
> >
> > if one has this chart already page 18 of > http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>
> > shows how to convert the Lambdoma into the Farey series.
> >
> >
> > /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> > Mesotonal Music from:
> > _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ > <http://anaphoria.com/>>
> >
> > _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> > Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
> >
> > ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> >
> > a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> > this evaporates - an island once again
> >
> >
> > Kraig Grady wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > no this is not a diamond but a slice of one. what appears between 1/1
> > > and 2/1
> > >
> > > /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> > > Mesotonal Music from:
> > > _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> > > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ > <http://anaphoria.com/>
> > > <http://anaphoria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/>>>
> > >
> > > _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> > > Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
> > > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>>
> > >
> > > ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> > >
> > > a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> > > this evaporates - an island once again
> > >
> > > Kraig Grady wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I see the relation to the farey series now. it is what falls between
> > > > 1/1 and 2/1 as seen on page 10 of http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>
> > > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>>
> > > > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF> > <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF <http://anaphoria.com/lamb.PDF>>>
> > > > The same as octave reducing of the 1-13 farey series. A diamond
> > > >
> > > > /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> > > > Mesotonal Music from:
> > > > _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> > > > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island > <http://anaphoria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/>
> > > <http://anaphoria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/>>
> > > > <http://anaphoria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/> > <http://anaphoria.com/ <http://anaphoria.com/>>>>
> > > >
> > > > _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> > > > Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria
> > > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
> > > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
> > > > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
> > > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>>>
> > > >
> > > > ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> > > >
> > > > a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> > > > this evaporates - an island once again
> > > >
> > > > kylegann1955 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello, friends,
> > > > >
> > > > > A new microtonal piece is up:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>
> > > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>>
> > > > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>
> > > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>
> > > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3 > <http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3>>>>
> > > > >
> > > > > It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1
> > > > > through 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that
> > > > > Warren Burt has also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html> >
> > > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html> >
> > > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>>> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html> >
> > > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html> >
> > > > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html > <http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html>>>>
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope you enjoy it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yours,
> > > > >
> > > > > Kyle
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

7/14/2009 7:39:18 PM

Very interesting piece - and inspiring actually.

Thanks for sharing - and aardvarks are certainly cool.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:44 PM, kylegann1955 <kgann@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hello, friends,
>
> A new microtonal piece is up:
>
> http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3
>
> It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1 through
> 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that Warren Burt has
> also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:
>
>
> http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html
>
> Hope you enjoy it.
>
> Yours,
>
> Kyle
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/14/2009 7:39:27 PM

it should have said!!!!

well the chart is Erv's not mine and to mapping the territory is quite
different from exploring it as you have done here.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

7/15/2009 1:10:48 AM

Kyle,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> wrote:
> A new microtonal piece is up:

Hah. You again?

Very suave. The stately waddling (swaddling?) of the aardvarks is compelling; in a way, it reminds me a bit of those Harrison pieces, the "Joyous" and "Solemn" Processions.

And Harry would be glad you turned your back on yet another monolith. Almost as proud as he would have been of Obama's pitch at the game tonight...

Cheers,
Jon

🔗kylegann1955 <kgann@...>

7/15/2009 10:38:21 AM

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <jszanto@...> wrote:
>

> And Harry would be glad you turned your back on yet another monolith. Almost as proud as he would have been of Obama's pitch at the game tonight...

Ah, what wouldn't I have done to make Harry proud of me.

(Well, I can think of a couple of things, I guess.)

Cheers,

Kyle

🔗Prent Rodgers <prentrodgers@...>

7/17/2009 5:28:01 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially towards the end when you had a nice flirtation with overtones, moving out of just and back over a few minutes. What is the instrumentation?

Prent Rodgers

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3
>
>
> Hope you enjoy it.
>
> Yours,
>
> Kyle
>

🔗kylegann1955 <kgann@...>

7/17/2009 6:23:36 PM

Hi Prent,

Thanks for the comments. Umm, not sure what you mean about moving in and out of just. The instruments are all on Kontakt software, some of them heavily reverbed, except that in the last third I add a men's chorus - which is three tapes of myself, singing the melody while listening to the tuning on headphones. Maybe that's what you mean. I do feel like I'm getting a better feel for the technology, which is a big struggle for me. I just don't think the way people who design software do.

Yours,

Kyle

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Prent Rodgers" <prentrodgers@...> wrote:
>
> I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially towards the end when you had a nice flirtation with overtones, moving out of just and back over a few minutes. What is the instrumentation?
>
> Prent Rodgers
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "kylegann1955" <kgann@> wrote:
> >

🔗Prent Rodgers <prentrodgers@...>

7/18/2009 10:11:41 AM

Kyle,
I shouldn't have said "out of just". What I meant specifically was the way you play a set of low integer ratio chords above the fundamental, and then much higher integer ratio chords that are similar but much more challenging. Listen to the clip at 7:30 to 7:46 for one of many examples. Lovely.

I've excerpted the section to listen here:
http://ripnread.com/listen/Kyle%20Gann%20AardvarksParade%20excerpt.mp3

Prent Rodgers

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> wrote:
>Umm, not sure what you mean about moving in and out of just.
>
> Kyle
>
> <prentrodgers@> wrote:
> >
> > I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially towards the end when you had a nice flirtation with overtones, moving out of just and back over a few minutes.

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

7/18/2009 12:41:14 PM

It actually raises a long-standing debate / source of confusion
on the tuning lists: if I play any chord from a scale where the
pitches of the scale are all integer ratios of a fundamental,
does that mean the chord must be "just"?

-Carl

At 10:11 AM 7/18/2009, you wrote:
>Kyle,
>I shouldn't have said "out of just". What I meant specifically was the
>way you play a set of low integer ratio chords above the fundamental,
>and then much higher integer ratio chords that are similar but much
>more challenging. Listen to the clip at 7:30 to 7:46 for one of many
>examples. Lovely.
>
>I've excerpted the section to listen here:
>http://ripnread.com/listen/Kyle%20Gann%20AardvarksParade%20excerpt.mp3
>
>Prent Rodgers
>
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> wrote:
>>Umm, not sure what you mean about moving in and out of just.
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>> <prentrodgers@> wrote:
>> >
>> > I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially towards the end when you had a
>> > nice flirtation with overtones, moving out of just and back over a
>> > few minutes.
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/18/2009 3:45:59 PM

The chord would be just. I am not sure 'must' is needed in the question.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Carl Lumma wrote:
> >
> It actually raises a long-standing debate / source of confusion
> on the tuning lists: if I play any chord from a scale where the
> pitches of the scale are all integer ratios of a fundamental,
> does that mean the chord must be "just"?
>
> -Carl
>
> At 10:11 AM 7/18/2009, you wrote:
> >Kyle,
> >I shouldn't have said "out of just". What I meant specifically was the
> >way you play a set of low integer ratio chords above the fundamental,
> >and then much higher integer ratio chords that are similar but much
> >more challenging. Listen to the clip at 7:30 to 7:46 for one of many
> >examples. Lovely.
> >
> >I've excerpted the section to listen here:
> >http://ripnread.com/listen/Kyle%20Gann%20AardvarksParade%20excerpt.mp3 > <http://ripnread.com/listen/Kyle%20Gann%20AardvarksParade%20excerpt.mp3>
> >
> >Prent Rodgers
> >
> >--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, "kylegann1955" <kgann@...> > wrote:
> >>Umm, not sure what you mean about moving in and out of just.
> >>
> >> Kyle
> >>
> >> <prentrodgers@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially towards the end when you had a
> >> > nice flirtation with overtones, moving out of just and back over a
> >> > few minutes.
> >
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/18/2009 3:54:15 PM

http://www.visualcomplexity.com/vc/index.cfm?domain=Music

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

7/18/2009 4:05:06 PM

It depends how you think words should be used. Historically,
"just intonation" referred to scales. If you believe in the
continuity of that definition, then you're right: anything
played in a just scale is just intonation.

But this definition doesn't make sense in terms of how we hear.
If you want the term "just intonation" to mean something you
can hear, then it cannot be a property of scales, but must
instead be a property of chords. This definition is gaining
favor it recent times -- on the web for example. Under this
usage, there are no just scales. Instead the question is how
many just chords a scale contains.

-Carl

Kraig wrote:
>The chord would be just. I am not sure 'must' is needed in the question.

I wrote:
>> It actually raises a long-standing debate / source of confusion
>> on the tuning lists: if I play any chord from a scale where the
>> pitches of the scale are all integer ratios of a fundamental,
>> does that mean the chord must be "just"?

Prent wrote:
>>> I shouldn't have said "out of just". What I meant specifically was the
>>> way you play a set of low integer ratio chords above the fundamental,
>>> and then much higher integer ratio chords that are similar but much
>>> more challenging. Listen to the clip at 7:30 to 7:46 for one of many
>>> examples. Lovely.

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/18/2009 4:59:02 PM

The cultures that use JI are not chord based. The mid-East and India.
i have absolutely have no problem hearing these and nor does anyone therein. drone or not.

which i guess imply that if such a definition is gaining on the web it is misguided.
Harry Partch, Lou Harrison, Ben Johnston are not what i would call chord based composers.
nor myself.
I cannot think of any basis to make the claim their is no just scales.

also i cannot think of many chord based JI pieces.

These list have shown that the people who want temperament it is to play the same full chords in all keys. who uses ET for melodic reasons. This is where all the talk of chords are.

As in western music, this is how temperament came about. Even Ehrlich made this argument to prevent drift.

What is consistent is the straw man (person if you insist) JI music that people imagine that doesn't exist.
all this is defined by people not involved in it. i can only imagine who.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Carl Lumma wrote:
> >
> It depends how you think words should be used. Historically,
> "just intonation" referred to scales. If you believe in the
> continuity of that definition, then you're right: anything
> played in a just scale is just intonation.
>
> But this definition doesn't make sense in terms of how we hear.
> If you want the term "just intonation" to mean something you
> can hear, then it cannot be a property of scales, but must
> instead be a property of chords. This definition is gaining
> favor it recent times -- on the web for example. Under this
> usage, there are no just scales. Instead the question is how
> many just chords a scale contains.
>
> -Carl
>
> Kraig wrote:
> >The chord would be just. I am not sure 'must' is needed in the question.
>
> I wrote:
> >> It actually raises a long-standing debate / source of confusion
> >> on the tuning lists: if I play any chord from a scale where the
> >> pitches of the scale are all integer ratios of a fundamental,
> >> does that mean the chord must be "just"?
>
> Prent wrote:
> >>> I shouldn't have said "out of just". What I meant specifically was the
> >>> way you play a set of low integer ratio chords above the fundamental,
> >>> and then much higher integer ratio chords that are similar but much
> >>> more challenging. Listen to the clip at 7:30 to 7:46 for one of many
> >>> examples. Lovely.
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/18/2009 5:01:21 PM

This is pure fabrication. where and by who?

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Carl Lumma wrote:
> >
> This definition is gaining
> favor it recent times -- on the web for example. Under this
> usage, there are no just scales. Instead the question is how
> many just chords a scale contains.
>
>
> .
>
>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

7/18/2009 5:40:31 PM

At 04:59 PM 7/18/2009, you wrote:
>The cultures that use JI are not chord based.

"Just intonation" is a European term.

Evidence that *any* culture uses it in a systematic way
is lacking.

>The mid-East and India.
>i have absolutely have no problem hearing these and nor does anyone
>therein. drone or not.

In a typical performance of Indian music, one can hear all
sorts of intervals, most of which are not JI in any meaningful
sense. At various points throughout the performance -- esp.
when they're playing the unembellished theme at the beginning
and end -- 5:4 ratios closer to just than are available in
12-tone equal temperament can clearly be heard. But unlike
National Socialism, this doesn't constitute an ethos.

Much closer are the choral traditions of Western music, though
the JI is usually carried out "under the table" and does not
have an adequate representation in music theory or training.

>which i guess imply that if such a definition is gaining on
>the web it is misguided.

If you want JI to be something over which the ear can be jury,
then it must be a property of chords, not of scales. I could
provide examples, but what would be the point of doing so for
the 10,000th time?

>I cannot think of any basis to make the claim their is no just scales.

You are also renowned for being unable to accept anything that
has been said on these lists over the past decade, which does
not fit (however forced) into a shoebox of difference tones and
recurrent sequences.

-Carl

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/18/2009 6:42:35 PM

you might as well argue that the idea that no one in the world is attempting to keep a beat cause when you measure it we find that very few musicians can do what what a robot machine can do. So no one wants to hear a beat is the logic.
The point is they are keeping the beat.
True not all musicians are as good .the best ones in these cultures will be more JI than the ones that are not as good. just like the best musicians might have a tighter tempo than others

you are completely pathetic Carl. I ask you where and who and you attack me.
You go around writing all the over the web which if anyone has an agenda it is you.
Only a megalomaniac would even consider telling others what they are doing is JI or not. you have more say that Harry Partch, Erv Wilson, Ben Johnston, Lou Harrison. who the hell are you. None of the people who use it have any say.

if i defend myself from people who tell me that i could do what i do in this tuning or what i need to do to be innovative in their POV. so be it. I have never told anyone on this list to use certain tunings or what they should not do.
nor have i attacked anyone specific work put forth on this list. nor what style is relevant or not. i have solutions to my own problems. you can come up with any conclusion you want about what i do. but it does not go with my own experience. any of the recurrent triads in any of these scale s will sound relatively as consonant as any of the others within that scale.
what have you or anyone that can explain that. and i play more than the vibraphone in these tunings. i have never said that difference tones explains everything, but any theory must take them in not ignore them. in fact when i have bothered going into the details, i have mentioned how i could not take it beyond a certain place. i have no grand difference tone theory

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Carl Lumma wrote:
> >
> At 04:59 PM 7/18/2009, you wrote:
> >The cultures that use JI are not chord based.
>
> "Just intonation" is a European term.
>
> Evidence that *any* culture uses it in a systematic way
> is lacking.
>
> >The mid-East and India.
> >i have absolutely have no problem hearing these and nor does anyone
> >therein. drone or not.
>
> In a typical performance of Indian music, one can hear all
> sorts of intervals, most of which are not JI in any meaningful
> sense. At various points throughout the performance -- esp.
> when they're playing the unembellished theme at the beginning
> and end -- 5:4 ratios closer to just than are available in
> 12-tone equal temperament can clearly be heard. But unlike
> National Socialism, this doesn't constitute an ethos.
>
> Much closer are the choral traditions of Western music, though
> the JI is usually carried out "under the table" and does not
> have an adequate representation in music theory or training.
>
> >which i guess imply that if such a definition is gaining on
> >the web it is misguided.
>
> If you want JI to be something over which the ear can be jury,
> then it must be a property of chords, not of scales. I could
> provide examples, but what would be the point of doing so for
> the 10,000th time?
>
> >I cannot think of any basis to make the claim their is no just scales.
>
> You are also renowned for being unable to accept anything that
> has been said on these lists over the past decade, which does
> not fit (however forced) into a shoebox of difference tones and
> recurrent sequences.
>
> -Carl
>
>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

7/18/2009 11:01:13 PM

Kraig wrote:

>you might as well argue that the idea that no one in the world is
>attempting to keep a beat cause when you measure it we find that
>very few musicians can do what what a robot machine can do.

I wasn't referring to tuning accuracy issues, if that's what
you mean. I was referring to the way almost all rational
scales contain chords that do not pass classical tests of just
intonation (can't be tuned by ear, etc.).

As far as Indian music, it's a complex issue. There is so much
sliding of pitch, it's not clear how to describe what's going
on. Ask people like Can Akkoc, who've tried it. Simply saying
"they use just intonation" has zero explanatory power. There
is real work to be done to understand the intonation of this
music, but it's quite obvious they aren't masterfully hitting
exotic ratios on demand. The musicians aren't trained that way.
There is some theory on the 22-tone system, but like all extant
intonation theories, it was post-hoc. Paul Erlich and Daniel
Wolf have been trying to tell you for years that indigenous
cultures don't use JI, but you don't want to hear it.

>you are completely pathetic Carl. I ask you where and who and you
>attack me.

If you asked something that hasn't been beaten to death on the
lists, I missed it. For instance, I have several GB of mp3s
(most from this list) in "chord-based just intonation".

>you have more say that Harry Partch, Erv Wilson, Ben Johnston,
>Lou Harrison. who the hell are you. None of the people who use
>it have any say.

I thought you of all people were opposed to argument from
authority. Yes, if I catch Harry Partch or Erv Wilson making
a mistake, I'll point it out.

>I have never told anyone on this list to use certain tunings or
>what they should not do.

I don't think I have either, and it's not what I was doing in
this case. I was said there's a gotcha in the way people use
the phrase "just intonation" that has caused communication
problems in the past. I suggested two ways to resolve it.

>Only a megalomaniac would even consider telling others what they
>are doing is JI or not.

Again, I didn't say that, I just pointed out a difference in
terminology. But since you bring it up, I'll say a word to
anyone harboring quasi-religious attachments over whether some
music is in just intonation or not: It's time to stop polluting
the discussion with this B.S. There numerous denominations of
church where one can make a fool of oneself on a regular basis
while doing a relative minimum of harm to others. There's no
need to take it out on music theory.

>but it does not go with my own experience. any of the recurrent
>triads in any of these scale s will sound relatively as consonant
>as any of the others within that scale.
>what have you or anyone that can explain that.

Let's have examples of particular chords, say which timbres
we're using to audition them, take it to the tuning list,
and let's put things to the test.

>and i play more than the vibraphone in these tunings. i have
>never said that difference tones explains everything, but any
>theory must take them in not ignore them.

There have been dozens of threads where Paul and I have explained
and/or demonstrated that difference tones are a tiny factor in
almost all music settings. The model we have, which ignores them,
works fine 99% of the time. For the other 1%, it isn't hard to
plug them into the theory as it stands.

-Carl

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/18/2009 11:56:57 PM

you have figured out what i s right beyond any doubt or any chance of falsification.
that all the people before you who use JI scales or define them as such are wrong because you say so. Even if they are whole number ratios.
if they call them JI and have for at the time they have who are you to say they are wrong.
Because Paul said or you think he did?

there are no established facts. you have none. you have theories and these theories might be useful but you cannot insist that everyone before you they are wrong.
Why are you not telling Kyle Gann than his scale isn't a JI scale because it isn't based on chords.

you can say what ever you want about difference tones, my music is put together using them and absolutely you nor no one else can point out where it breaks down.
i can't prove it and you can't disprove it.

i can explain every slendro in Kunst's charts with 3 vibration per sec. by difference tones.

your characterization of my beliefs below are just as inaccurate and false i am not going to bother picking apart each

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

> Paul Erlich and Daniel
> Wolf have been trying to tell you for years that indigenous
> cultures don't use JI, but you don't want to hear it.
>

>
>
>
> >you have more say that Harry Partch, Erv Wilson, Ben Johnston,
> >Lou Harrison. who the hell are you. None of the people who use
> >it have any say.
>
> I thought you of all people were opposed to argument from
> authority. Yes, if I catch Harry Partch or Erv Wilson making
> a mistake, I'll point it out.
>

>
> >I have never told anyone on this list to use certain tunings or
> >what they should not do.
>
> I don't think I have either, and it's not what I was doing in
> this case. I was said there's a gotcha in the way people use
> the phrase "just intonation" that has caused communication
> problems in the past. I suggested two ways to resolve it.
>
> >Only a megalomaniac would even consider telling others what they
> >are doing is JI or not.
>
> Again, I didn't say that, I just pointed out a difference in
> terminology. But since you bring it up, I'll say a word to
> anyone harboring quasi-religious attachments over whether some
> music is in just intonation or not: It's time to stop polluting
> the discussion with this B.S. There numerous denominations of
> church where one can make a fool of oneself on a regular basis
> while doing a relative minimum of harm to others. There's no
> need to take it out on music theory.
>
> >but it does not go with my own experience. any of the recurrent
> >triads in any of these scale s will sound relatively as consonant
> >as any of the others within that scale.
> >what have you or anyone that can explain that.
>
> Let's have examples of particular chords, say which timbres
> we're using to audition them, take it to the tuning list,
> and let's put things to the test.
>
> >and i play more than the vibraphone in these tunings. i have
> >never said that difference tones explains everything, but any
> >theory must take them in not ignore them.
>
> There have been dozens of threads where Paul and I have explained
> and/or demonstrated that difference tones are a tiny factor in
> almost all music settings. The model we have, which ignores them,
> works fine 99% of the time. For the other 1%, it isn't hard to
> plug them into the theory as it stands.
>
> -Carl
>
>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

7/19/2009 12:21:13 AM

Kraig,

Consider the following pattern: You chime in on some discussion
to say 'Erv already did that' and post a link to a PDF. Four
times out of five, it's revealed that you didn't understand what
was being discussed and no, Erv hadn't done it. Then you
sheepishly apologize or otherwise disappear, only to do the same
thing a few weeks later. Sound familiar? It's the kind of thing
that should signal you to approach theory discussions with more
humility, but instead you just repeat the pattern, and lash out
like a wounded animal when anything comes close to threatening
your beliefs. Re-read the thread from tonight -- you freaked.
None of this serves your purpose.

-Carl

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/19/2009 12:39:58 AM

you are imaging things Carl.

I asked you where and who and all you have done is character assassination to cover your lies.
make up any past. just because you say it doesn't make it so.

where are who?

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Carl Lumma wrote:
> >
> Kraig,
>
> Consider the following pattern: You chime in on some discussion
> to say 'Erv already did that' and post a link to a PDF. Four
> times out of five, it's revealed that you didn't understand what
> was being discussed and no, Erv hadn't done it. Then you
> sheepishly apologize or otherwise disappear, only to do the same
> thing a few weeks later. Sound familiar? It's the kind of thing
> that should signal you to approach theory discussions with more
> humility, but instead you just repeat the pattern, and lash out
> like a wounded animal when anything comes close to threatening
> your beliefs. Re-read the thread from tonight -- you freaked.
> None of this serves your purpose.
>
> -Carl
>
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/19/2009 12:48:31 AM

this is pure hallucination on your part having no basis in reality.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

7/19/2009 12:51:12 AM

Shall I go back and find the threads for you so you can tally
them up? I would be happy to send them to you offlist for
your perusal. -Carl

At 12:48 AM 7/19/2009, Kraig wrote:
>this is pure hallucination on your part having no basis in reality.
>
>
>Carl Lumma wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kraig,
>>
>> Consider the following pattern: You chime in on some discussion
>> to say 'Erv already did that' and post a link to a PDF. Four
>> times out of five, it's revealed that you didn't understand what
>> was being discussed and no, Erv hadn't done it. Then you
>> sheepishly apologize or otherwise disappear, only to do the same
>> thing a few weeks later. Sound familiar? It's the kind of thing
>> that should signal you to approach theory discussions with more
>> humility, but instead you just repeat the pattern, and lash out
>> like a wounded animal when anything comes close to threatening
>> your beliefs. Re-read the thread from tonight -- you freaked.
>> None of this serves your purpose.
>>
>> -Carl
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

7/19/2009 1:07:33 AM

i am unsubscribing from both list.

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

a momentary antenna as i turn to water
this evaporates - an island once again

Kraig Grady wrote:
> >
>
> you have figured out what i s right beyond any doubt or any chance of
> falsification.
> that all the people before you who use JI scales or define them as such
> are wrong because you say so. Even if they are whole number ratios.
> if they call them JI and have for at the time they have who are you to
> say they are wrong.
> Because Paul said or you think he did?
>
> there are no established facts. you have none. you have theories and
> these theories might be useful but you cannot insist that everyone
> before you they are wrong.
> Why are you not telling Kyle Gann than his scale isn't a JI scale
> because it isn't based on chords.
>
> you can say what ever you want about difference tones, my music is put
> together using them and absolutely you nor no one else can point out
> where it breaks down.
> i can't prove it and you can't disprove it.
>
> i can explain every slendro in Kunst's charts with 3 vibration per sec.
> by difference tones.
>
> your characterization of my beliefs below are just as inaccurate and
> false i am not going to bother picking apart each
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ > <http://anaphoria.com/>>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/ > <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
> a momentary antenna as i turn to water
> this evaporates - an island once again
>
> > Paul Erlich and Daniel
> > Wolf have been trying to tell you for years that indigenous
> > cultures don't use JI, but you don't want to hear it.
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> > >you have more say that Harry Partch, Erv Wilson, Ben Johnston,
> > >Lou Harrison. who the hell are you. None of the people who use
> > >it have any say.
> >
> > I thought you of all people were opposed to argument from
> > authority. Yes, if I catch Harry Partch or Erv Wilson making
> > a mistake, I'll point it out.
> >
>
> >
> > >I have never told anyone on this list to use certain tunings or
> > >what they should not do.
> >
> > I don't think I have either, and it's not what I was doing in
> > this case. I was said there's a gotcha in the way people use
> > the phrase "just intonation" that has caused communication
> > problems in the past. I suggested two ways to resolve it.
> >
> > >Only a megalomaniac would even consider telling others what they
> > >are doing is JI or not.
> >
> > Again, I didn't say that, I just pointed out a difference in
> > terminology. But since you bring it up, I'll say a word to
> > anyone harboring quasi-religious attachments over whether some
> > music is in just intonation or not: It's time to stop polluting
> > the discussion with this B.S. There numerous denominations of
> > church where one can make a fool of oneself on a regular basis
> > while doing a relative minimum of harm to others. There's no
> > need to take it out on music theory.
> >
> > >but it does not go with my own experience. any of the recurrent
> > >triads in any of these scale s will sound relatively as consonant
> > >as any of the others within that scale.
> > >what have you or anyone that can explain that.
> >
> > Let's have examples of particular chords, say which timbres
> > we're using to audition them, take it to the tuning list,
> > and let's put things to the test.
> >
> > >and i play more than the vibraphone in these tunings. i have
> > >never said that difference tones explains everything, but any
> > >theory must take them in not ignore them.
> >
> > There have been dozens of threads where Paul and I have explained
> > and/or demonstrated that difference tones are a tiny factor in
> > almost all music settings. The model we have, which ignores them,
> > works fine 99% of the time. For the other 1%, it isn't hard to
> > plug them into the theory as it stands.
> >
> > -Carl
> >
> >
>
>

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

7/19/2009 1:46:11 PM

Hey, I'm just now getting a chance to listen to it now... excellent! I'll have to listen to it in full later tonight when I need to chill out.

I'm also fond of 13/10. I used it (actually, its 450-cent approximation) in something recently.

~D.

----- Original Message ----- From: "kylegann1955" <kgann@...>
To: <MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 14 July, 2009 14:44
Subject: [MMM] The Aardvarks' Parade

> Hello, friends,
>
> A new microtonal piece is up:
>
> http://www.kylegann.com/AardvarksParade.mp3
>
> It's my Triskaidekaphonia scale, all the ratios in the numbers 1 > through 13. Somebody told me it's called a Farey series, and that > Warren Burt has also used it (or one). I wrote about it here:
>
> http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2009/07/a_procession_of_earth_pigs.html
>
> Hope you enjoy it.
>
> Yours,
>
> Kyle