Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic New MP3 file: "Ambiguous Political Statement"

My latest work. This one's shorter than "Waterloo", and took far less time to write. To nab the file directly, make sure you copy the entire URL:

http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43eb10e0mbaaec376/bc/Ambiguous+Political+Statement.mp3?BCI.OsIB0BdqGIk6

And all my work is at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier (and I still need to get my homepage set up again).

This composition, just under three and a half minutes long, is an orchestral work, also in 72-tet. Unlike the previous work, which approximates 11-limit JI, "Ambiguous" goes on to 17-limit with the brass fanfares at the beginning and end. The brass would probably have to be a choir of trombones (including sopranos which are rare nowadays), unless you can find enough trumpet players able to bend notes precisely. Same goes for French horns.

Along with brass, strings and percussion, it is scored for piccolo, flute, clarinet, bass clarinet, tenor saxophone, glockenspiel and church bells. These are in 24- or 12-equal.

I might have a third work in the works; it might take me a while so be patient... ~D.

🔗Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

ok..... this music really kicks butt

This is some of the best microtonal music I've ever heard.

Powerful music.

Thanks for sharing.

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 1:05 AM, Danny Wier <dawiertx@...> wrote:

> My latest work. This one's shorter than "Waterloo", and took far less
> time to write. To nab the file directly, make sure you copy the entire URL:
>
>
> http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43eb10e0mbaaec376/bc/Ambiguous+Political+Statement.mp3?BCI.OsIB0BdqGIk6
>
> And all my work is at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier (and I still
> need to get my homepage set up again).
>
> This composition, just under three and a half minutes long, is an
> orchestral work, also in 72-tet. Unlike the previous work, which
> approximates 11-limit JI, "Ambiguous" goes on to 17-limit with the brass
> fanfares at the beginning and end. The brass would probably have to be a
> choir of trombones (including sopranos which are rare nowadays), unless
> you can find enough trumpet players able to bend notes precisely. Same
> goes for French horns.
>
> Along with brass, strings and percussion, it is scored for piccolo,
> flute, clarinet, bass clarinet, tenor saxophone, glockenspiel and church
> bells. These are in 24- or 12-equal.
>
> I might have a third work in the works; it might take me a while so be
> patient... ~D.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

ditto

At 07:54 AM 8/24/2008, you wrote:
>ok..... this music really kicks butt
>
>This is some of the best microtonal music I've ever heard.
>
>Powerful music.
>
>Thanks for sharing.

>> And all my work is at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier (and I still
>> need to get my homepage set up again).
>>
>> This composition, just under three and a half minutes long, is an
>> orchestral work, also in 72-tet. Unlike the previous work, which
>> approximates 11-limit JI, "Ambiguous" goes on to 17-limit with the brass
>> fanfares at the beginning and end. The brass would probably have to be a
>> choir of trombones (including sopranos which are rare nowadays), unless
>> you can find enough trumpet players able to bend notes precisely. Same
>> goes for French horns.
>>
>> Along with brass, strings and percussion, it is scored for piccolo,
>> flute, clarinet, bass clarinet, tenor saxophone, glockenspiel and church
>> bells. These are in 24- or 12-equal.
>>
>> I might have a third work in the works; it might take me a while so be
>> patient... ~D.

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

Thanks Chris, and you too Carl. And I do specialize in "kick butt" music. I've played in a few metal bands, and I have a thing for video game music and action and horror movies, the better ones.

I've listened to both pieces over and over an insane number of times, and I can make some improvements, so these are definitely rough drafts. I'm still surprised I'm getting such good sound out of this mid-range Roland synth. It's hardly fair. ~D.

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> ok..... this music really kicks butt
>
> This is some of the best microtonal music I've ever heard.
>
> Powerful music.
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 1:05 AM, Danny Wier <dawiertx@... > <mailto:dawiertx@...>> wrote:
>
> My latest work. This one's shorter than "Waterloo", and took far less
> time to write. To nab the file directly, make sure you copy the
> entire URL:
>
> http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43eb10e0mbaaec376/bc/Ambiguous+Political+Statement.mp3?BCI.OsIB0BdqGIk6
>
> And all my work is at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier (and I
> still
> need to get my homepage set up again).
>
>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

At 12:25 AM 8/25/2008, you wrote:
>Thanks Chris, and you too Carl. And I do specialize in "kick butt"
>music. I've played in a few metal bands, and I have a thing for video
>game music and action and horror movies, the better ones.
>
>I've listened to both pieces over and over an insane number of times,
>and I can make some improvements, so these are definitely rough drafts.
>I'm still surprised I'm getting such good sound out of this mid-range
>Roland synth. It's hardly fair. ~D.

Actually it's the composition I like. I don't care much for
the synth. :)

-Carl

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

Carl Lumma wrote:
> At 12:25 AM 8/25/2008, you wrote:
> >> Thanks Chris, and you too Carl. And I do specialize in "kick butt" >> music. I've played in a few metal bands, and I have a thing for video >> game music and action and horror movies, the better ones.
>>
>> I've listened to both pieces over and over an insane number of times, >> and I can make some improvements, so these are definitely rough drafts. >> I'm still surprised I'm getting such good sound out of this mid-range >> Roland synth. It's hardly fair. ~D.
>> >
> Actually it's the composition I like. I don't care much for
> the synth. :)

Yeah, a better orchestra is definitely in the long-term plans. Got a few tens of thousands of dollars? ;)

~D.

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

>>> Thanks Chris, and you too Carl. And I do specialize in "kick butt"
>>> music. I've played in a few metal bands, and I have a thing for video
>>> game music and action and horror movies, the better ones.
>>>
>>> I've listened to both pieces over and over an insane number of times,
>>> and I can make some improvements, so these are definitely rough drafts.
>>> I'm still surprised I'm getting such good sound out of this mid-range
>>> Roland synth. It's hardly fair. ~D.
>>>
>>
>> Actually it's the composition I like. I don't care much for
>> the synth. :)
>
>Yeah, a better orchestra is definitely in the long-term plans. Got a few
>tens of thousands of dollars? ;)

I didn't like the piano either. :)

Fortunately, I have the fix for that problem, and it only
costs $368:
http://www.pianoteq.com

I'm still working on the orchestra bit...

-Carl

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

🔗hstraub64 <straub@...>

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

hstraub64 wrote:
> Kicks butt, indeed!
> And interesting, how naturally and, in a way, homogenously the change > between classical-sounding to oriental-sounding parts goes.
> I feel myself getting to like 72edo more and more...
> That has been my goal lately, besides exploiting 72 which just happens to be my favorite tuning right now: trying to fit Eastern ideas into (my version of) Western music while showing as much respect to the Eastern ideas as possible, including not faking everything in 12-equal.

Actually, if I ever get all these unfinished projects done, it'll mostly be 12-tone music with occasional to frequent use of quarter and third tones, and since the LCM of 3 and 4 is 12, the division of the ET whole tone into twelve equal parts follows logically. But I'm beginning to write music that isn't fundamentally dodecatonic, and using "maqamic" concepts in melody and harmony was an easy place to start for me.

I also happen to like the Bayati and Saba families *a lot*; these all begin with a neutral second and minor third. ~D.

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

I'll reply to everyone in one e-mail again. Sorry for the delay... been busy with something; I'm not always sure what.

To Carl: I wish I had four hundred bucks, but I can definitely use a much more realistic piano sound, so I need to check out the demo at least. I really want something like a Bosendorfer, since I have this obsession with really low pitches. If they ever make a piano with a nine-octave range (down to MIDI note 0), I'd like to see/hear it...

To Jon: if Video Games Live ever comes to Texas, I want to know. (I'm a fan of Uematsu myself.) And I have heard a few non-12-et notes in some games, usually those with more ambient soundtracks.

To dasdasdva: I probably am related to the Wiers in Massachusetts for all I know. The ones on my dad's side come from central Texas - and eventually northern Ireland and/or Scotland, I think - and the name is more often spelled Weir. (They never consistently anglicized Gaelic names at Ellis Island.)

~D.

🔗Prent Rodgers <prentrodgers@...>

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

Danny: I sent you an email regarding running this piece through
EastWest... Did you get it? I think it would sound pretty cool.

-Mike

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Prent Rodgers
<prentrodgers@...> wrote:
> Consider me a dittohead too. Great stuff
> Prent Rodgers
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:
>>
>> ditto
>>
>> At 07:54 AM 8/24/2008, you wrote:
>> >ok..... this music really kicks butt
>> >
>> >This is some of the best microtonal music I've ever heard.
>> >
>> >Powerful music.
>> >
>> >Thanks for sharing.
>
>

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

Oh, did you mean running it through EastWest yourself? I misread, and sure, we can do that. I just need to upload the MIDI files; I'll do that *soon*. ~D.

Danny Wier wrote:
> I got your e-mail, Mike, and my apologies for not writing back sooner. > By EastWest, you're talking about this, right? > http://www.soundsonline.com/End-of-Summer-Promotion-2008-p-221.html
>
> I don't have that kind of money right now, but I'll check out the > website. If I go professional with this, then I'll need to look into > virtual instruments. Thanks again... ~D.
>
> Mike Battaglia wrote:
> >> Danny: I sent you an email regarding running this piece through
>> EastWest... Did you get it? I think it would sound pretty cool.
>>
>> -Mike
>

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

I was saying that I have a copy of East West, and that if you wanted
to hear what your piece would sound like through it, given a MIDI file
I could put it into it for you. The sounds in East West are
-fantastic-, and I thought your piece would sound really good in it.

-Mike

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Danny Wier <dawiertx@...> wrote:
> I got your e-mail, Mike, and my apologies for not writing back sooner.
> By EastWest, you're talking about this, right?
> http://www.soundsonline.com/End-of-Summer-Promotion-2008-p-221.html
>
> I don't have that kind of money right now, but I'll check out the
> website. If I go professional with this, then I'll need to look into
> virtual instruments. Thanks again... ~D.
>
> Mike Battaglia wrote:
>> Danny: I sent you an email regarding running this piece through
>> EastWest... Did you get it? I think it would sound pretty cool.
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Battaglia"
<battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> I was saying that I have a copy of East West, and that if you wanted
> to hear what your piece would sound like through it, given a MIDI file
> I could put it into it for you. The sounds in East West are
> -fantastic-, and I thought your piece would sound really good in it.

Well, I'd be curious for one reason and one reason only: one of my pet
peeves is the situation where people think an entire orchestral sample
library somehow trumps another, when in actuality the degree to which
a piece comes off as reasonably (or remarkably) authentic to an
orchestra rendition is how the data *itself* is managed, not the
sample library it is poured into.

Take a piano player, or a guitarist, or a non-instrumentalist, and
have them enter a string orchestra phrase or fragment of music.
Compare it to someone who knows how a section of string players
behaves and can input and then tweak the data in an appropriate
manner. The difference is Always plain to the ear.

You just can't output a midi file to an orchestral sample orchestra,
whether it is Garritan, East/West, LSO, or any of the others, and
expect the silver bullet to pierce your score.

IMHO.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

That's all well and good in theory, but in theory, theory and practice
are the same, and in practice, they're different.

The sounds I've heard from EastWest are better than those in Garritan
IMO, and not as good as those in VSL. One reason is just the quality
of the samples and amount of multisampling (and work) is just higher
in EastWest, and another is that in high-end programs like VSL they
have extra 100-millisecond long samples that they tack on to represent
the subtle nuances in tone that real orchestral instruments will give
when playing legato lines. So if I'm on a flute and I go from C to D,
they'll have a tiny sample play between the two to connect the line
better. I believe EastWest does the same thing, but I don't think as
well as VSL.

All I know is, if I use EWQL, things usually sound good right off the
bat, and if I use my Motif they don't. If I use my Motif, I'll be
layering a horn line with a saxophone and a sawtooth wave to try and
get a "real" trumpet sound or something. EWQL's usually sound pretty
decent right away. Ease of use is a priority for me.

-Mike

On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Battaglia"
>
> <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>>
>> I was saying that I have a copy of East West, and that if you wanted
>> to hear what your piece would sound like through it, given a MIDI file
>> I could put it into it for you. The sounds in East West are
>> -fantastic-, and I thought your piece would sound really good in it.
>
> Well, I'd be curious for one reason and one reason only: one of my pet
> peeves is the situation where people think an entire orchestral sample
> library somehow trumps another, when in actuality the degree to which
> a piece comes off as reasonably (or remarkably) authentic to an
> orchestra rendition is how the data *itself* is managed, not the
> sample library it is poured into.
>
> Take a piano player, or a guitarist, or a non-instrumentalist, and
> have them enter a string orchestra phrase or fragment of music.
> Compare it to someone who knows how a section of string players
> behaves and can input and then tweak the data in an appropriate
> manner. The difference is Always plain to the ear.
>
> You just can't output a midi file to an orchestral sample orchestra,
> whether it is Garritan, East/West, LSO, or any of the others, and
> expect the silver bullet to pierce your score.
>
> IMHO.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Battaglia"
<battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> That's all well and good in theory, but in theory, theory and practice
> are the same, and in practice, they're different.

But you didn't say anything that would convince me otherwise: the
sound of the samples is not the issue. The construction of melodic
lines, the concept of an ensemble sound, and the variations in bowing
(for example), all are part of the domain of how the data is recorded.
I would still be curious to hear the exact same midi file he used
played with your sample library *with no other alterations* and see if
it comes any closer to a convincing emulation of an orchestral
performance.

But I'm a hard customer: I play in an orchestra for a living.

🔗Danny Wier <dawiertx@...>

Jon Szanto wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Battaglia"
> <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> >> That's all well and good in theory, but in theory, theory and practice
>> are the same, and in practice, they're different.
>> >
> But you didn't say anything that would convince me otherwise: the
> sound of the samples is not the issue. The construction of melodic
> lines, the concept of an ensemble sound, and the variations in bowing
> (for example), all are part of the domain of how the data is recorded.
> I would still be curious to hear the exact same midi file he used
> played with your sample library *with no other alterations* and see if
> it comes any closer to a convincing emulation of an orchestral
> performance.
>
> But I'm a hard customer: I play in an orchestra for a living.

I think he meant he'd play the MIDI file through virtual instruments that use a much better sound quality than what I get from this low-budget Roland I use. You'll never get a perfect orchestra sound through anything but a perfect orchestra, but it's a few steps in the right direction.

This is a more professional thing for film composers, for example, when making "MIDI mockups" for soundtracks, to give directors a good idea of how to get the film and soundtrack to match up. You won't want to hire real musicians until you get the finished project. We didn't have this kind of technology more than a few years ago, so this kind of thing is a godsend.

I took him up on his offer, at least out of curiosity. This is just one part of a whole suite of works I'm planning on writing, so it'll be a while before I have a finished project and a score. Then I'll have to find musicians willing and/or crazy to want to play all this...

~D.

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

All this means as is producers and directors and anyone else who can have a say can micromanage scores more than ever before ( i can't do it, but i know what i want!). Previously they had to take what the composers had written:).
I remember one editor who complained the more they update editing equipment capabilities, the faster they expect it. God forbid any contemplate anything!!

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Danny Wier wrote:
>
>
>
> This is a more professional thing for film composers, for example, when
> making "MIDI mockups" for soundtracks, to give directors a good idea of
> how to get the film and soundtrack to match up. You won't want to hire
> real musicians until you get the finished project. We didn't have this
> kind of technology more than a few years ago, so this kind of thing is a
> godsend.
>
>
>

🔗Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...>

Being a big fan of visual animation, it only makes sense that I'm
enthusiastic about MIDI and other electronic music making. But I
apply the same kinds of artistic standards and... tastes? to music
"animation" as I do to visual.

And that puts a "realistic" orchestra score with samples pretty
squarely onto the shitlist, afaic. Of course, if it is done in a
hyperrealist or styleized fashion, it can carve a place a place of
its own. DX7s and Clavinovas in a "classical" environment are great.
Some of the finest so-bad-its-wonderful synthetic "orchestral" sounds
which are permitted in the pantheon are the Mellotron and the analog
string machines. I have a Logan and dream of doing Verklärte Nacht in
JI with it some day... Verklämpt Aber Nackt?

Once I toiled through an ungodly mixing session- more than a month of
the musicians hanging over me obsessed with the powers of digital
editing in a "can't see the forest for the trees" way. Meanwhile
missing their fifteen minutes of fame as the whole country already
had a concert bootleg and was waiting for the album- when it came way
too late, noone cared anymore. In spite of having been paid what was
for the time and place an exceptionally fat sum, never again no way.
I'd rather serve beer or something.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
wrote:
>
> All this means as is producers and directors and anyone else who
can
> have a say can micromanage scores more than ever before ( i can't
do
> it, but i know what i want!). Previously they had to take what the
> composers had written:).
> I remember one editor who complained the more they update editing
> equipment capabilities, the faster they expect it. God forbid any
> contemplate anything!!
>
>
> /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> Mesotonal Music from:
> _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>
> _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://
anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
>
> ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
>
>
>
>
> Danny Wier wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a more professional thing for film composers, for
example, when
> > making "MIDI mockups" for soundtracks, to give directors a good
idea of
> > how to get the film and soundtrack to match up. You won't want to
hire
> > real musicians until you get the finished project. We didn't have
this
> > kind of technology more than a few years ago, so this kind of
thing is a
> > godsend.
> >
> >
> >
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I love Mellotrons!!!

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Cameron Bobro wrote:
>
> Being a big fan of visual animation, it only makes sense that I'm
> enthusiastic about MIDI and other electronic music making. But I
> apply the same kinds of artistic standards and... tastes? to music
> "animation" as I do to visual.
>
> And that puts a "realistic" orchestra score with samples pretty
> squarely onto the shitlist, afaic. Of course, if it is done in a
> hyperrealist or styleized fashion, it can carve a place a place of
> its own. DX7s and Clavinovas in a "classical" environment are great.
> Some of the finest so-bad-its-wonderful synthetic "orchestral" sounds
> which are permitted in the pantheon are the Mellotron and the analog
> string machines. I have a Logan and dream of doing Verklï¿½rte Nacht in
> JI with it some day... Verklï¿½mpt Aber Nackt?
>
> Once I toiled through an ungodly mixing session- more than a month of
> the musicians hanging over me obsessed with the powers of digital
> editing in a "can't see the forest for the trees" way. Meanwhile
> missing their fifteen minutes of fame as the whole country already
> had a concert bootleg and was waiting for the album- when it came way
> too late, noone cared anymore. In spite of having been paid what was
> for the time and place an exceptionally fat sum, never again no way.
> I'd rather serve beer or something.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > All this means as is producers and directors and anyone else who
> can
> > have a say can micromanage scores more than ever before ( i can't
> do
> > it, but i know what i want!). Previously they had to take what the
> > composers had written:).
> > I remember one editor who complained the more they update editing
> > equipment capabilities, the faster they expect it. God forbid any
> > contemplate anything!!
> >
> >
> > /^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
> > Mesotonal Music from:
> > _'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere:
> > North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/ > <http://anaphoria.com/>>
> >
> > _'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
> > Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://
> anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>
> >
> > ',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Danny Wier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a more professional thing for film composers, for
> example, when
> > > making "MIDI mockups" for soundtracks, to give directors a good
> idea of
> > > how to get the film and soundtrack to match up. You won't want to
> hire
> > > real musicians until you get the finished project. We didn't have
> this
> > > kind of technology more than a few years ago, so this kind of
> thing is a
> > > godsend.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>