New (completed) piece: "The Waterloo Rag"

MMMers,

I finished it, finally. It took nearly a month to write just over five minutes of music. I might have to "improve" it later, but I need to work on something else now.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier/

It's the last file on the list, in mp3 format. (I already posted this on Tuning-L; I had to kind of break my own no-crosspost rule.) ~D.

Great piece, Danny. Sorry I didn't say so when you posted the excerpt earlier. Seems like an instant classic to me.

- Dave

Danny Wier wrote:
> MMMers,
> > I finished it, finally. It took nearly a month to write just over five > minutes of music. I might have to "improve" it later, but I need to work > on something else now.
> > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier/
> > It's the last file on the list, in mp3 format. (I already posted this on > Tuning-L; I had to kind of break my own no-crosspost rule.) ~D.

Congratulations! Based on the excerpt we heard earlier,
I'm sure it's going to rock. -C.

At 01:17 PM 8/13/2008, you wrote:
>MMMers,
>
>I finished it, finally. It took nearly a month to write just over five
>minutes of music. I might have to "improve" it later, but I need to work
>on something else now.
>
>http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier/
>
>It's the last file on the list, in mp3 format. (I already posted this on
>Tuning-L; I had to kind of break my own no-crosspost rule.) ~D.

Loove the music. From a strictly production standpoint, I would
say...

* It needs way less reverb
* More power in the right hand, less in the left
* Higher mp3 bitrate
* a bit too fast in some parts for my taste

-Carl

At 01:17 PM 8/13/2008, you wrote:
>MMMers,
>
>I finished it, finally. It took nearly a month to write just over five
>minutes of music. I might have to "improve" it later, but I need to work
>on something else now.
>
>http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier/
>
>It's the last file on the list, in mp3 format. (I already posted this on
>Tuning-L; I had to kind of break my own no-crosspost rule.) ~D.
>
>------------------------------------

Carl Lumma wrote:
> Loove the music. From a strictly production standpoint, I would
> say...
>
> * It needs way less reverb
> * More power in the right hand, less in the left
> * Higher mp3 bitrate
> * a bit too fast in some parts for my taste
> Thanks for the advice, and I HATE it when I can't get any constructive criticism.

I agree with you about the reverb; I used a "large hall" type, but I'll need to re-record with the "medium hall". The recording is also bass-heavy, so you can't hear the right hand as much (change the reverb should help), and I need to re-define the velocity of forte, piano and so on. The bitrate issue is self-explanatory.

About the tempo: I need to get it to sound more "human", rather than a mechanical half note = 120 all the way through. I haven't mastered working rubato in with a MIDI sequencer.

But I've listened to "Waterloo" several hundred times already, and I need a break, or I'll never want to hear it again. I really need to get busy with other things.

~D.

>But I've listened to "Waterloo" several hundred times already, and I
>need a break, or I'll never want to hear it again. I really need to get
>busy with other things.

Yes, I've reached that point on a few occasions with pieces.

-Carl

Danny,

This is a WAY late reply....

I'm crazy about this piece! Yes, it's an *instant* classic; on my
short list of the best microtonal music ever produced on these lists,
or anywhere else. And, it's sure to excite people who don't know
anything about tuning, too. I'm sure it would make Joplin proud, it's
certainly worthy of him, and more...compositionally, you've nailed
it---it sounds like every note has been carefully cared for and
polished lovingly. It's inspiring to listen to, and just plain
off-the-wall fun!

Other than that, I agree with Carl--less reverb, PLEASE!...I'd love a
almost completely bone dry 'honkey tonk crowded bar' ambience. The
"bathing in reverb" just isn't right....and I may be in the minority
in saying this, but a little bit crappier piano sound, like a
Nancarrow-esque bright and twangy 'busted upright', seems
aesthetically appropriate. I would even enjoy a few mistuned unisons
for spice. I want to hear the barroom brawling! As it stands, the
sound is too much like a classical concert hall for me. Maybe fixing
the reverb alone won't make that matter as much.

I love music which sounds simultaneously machine-like in it's
precision, but also somehow 'broken'. This is right up that alley.

Bravo!

-AKJ.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Danny Wier <dawiertx@...> wrote:
>
> MMMers,
>
> I finished it, finally. It took nearly a month to write just over five
> minutes of music. I might have to "improve" it later, but I need to
work
> on something else now.
>
> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dawier/
>
> It's the last file on the list, in mp3 format. (I already posted
this on
> Tuning-L; I had to kind of break my own no-crosspost rule.) ~D.
>

Danny,

   Wow this is good!!!
So much spunk in this; so upbeat and enthusiastic...some of the velocity changes seem a bit extreme and forced...otherwise this sounds almost super-humanly smooth to my ears.
Bravo!!

Now, if you don't mind, what scale(s) are you using for this "precision madness"?  I want to try... :-D

--- On Wed, 9/3/08, Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...> wrote:
From: Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>
Subject: [MMM] Re: New (completed) piece: "The Waterloo Rag"
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 11:22 AM

Danny,

This is a WAY late reply....

I'm crazy about this piece! Yes, it's an *instant* classic; on my

short list of the best microtonal music ever produced on these lists,

or anywhere else. And, it's sure to excite people who don't know

anything about tuning, too. I'm sure it would make Joplin proud, it's

certainly worthy of him, and more...compositiona lly, you've nailed

it---it sounds like every note has been carefully cared for and

polished lovingly. It's inspiring to listen to, and just plain

off-the-wall fun!

Other than that, I agree with Carl--less reverb, PLEASE!...I' d love a

almost completely bone dry 'honkey tonk crowded bar' ambience. The

"bathing in reverb" just isn't right....and I may be in the minority

in saying this, but a little bit crappier piano sound, like a

Nancarrow-esque bright and twangy 'busted upright', seems

aesthetically appropriate. I would even enjoy a few mistuned unisons

for spice. I want to hear the barroom brawling! As it stands, the

sound is too much like a classical concert hall for me. Maybe fixing

the reverb alone won't make that matter as much.

I love music which sounds simultaneously machine-like in it's

precision, but also somehow 'broken'. This is right up that alley.

Bravo!

-AKJ.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@ yahoogroups. com, Danny Wier <dawiertx@.. .> wrote:

>

> MMMers,

>

> I finished it, finally. It took nearly a month to write just over five

> minutes of music. I might have to "improve" it later, but I need to

work

> on something else now.

>

> http://briefcase. yahoo.com/ bc/dawier/

>

> It's the last file on the list, in mp3 format. (I already posted

this on

> Tuning-L; I had to kind of break my own no-crosspost rule.) ~D.

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danny: Sorry I haven't gotten to hook it up in East West yet. I got
your messages.

School just started for me, so I'm a little busy at the moment, but I
plan to do it. The piano one will be more difficult, but we'll see how
it goes.

-Mike

Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> Danny,
>
> This is a WAY late reply....
>
> I'm crazy about this piece! Yes, it's an *instant* classic; on my
> short list of the best microtonal music ever produced on these lists,
> or anywhere else. And, it's sure to excite people who don't know
> anything about tuning, too. I'm sure it would make Joplin proud, it's
> certainly worthy of him, and more...compositionally, you've nailed
> it---it sounds like every note has been carefully cared for and
> polished lovingly. It's inspiring to listen to, and just plain
> off-the-wall fun!
> Thanks, it was fun to write too. I actually had Eubie Blake more in mind than Joplin, so they should both hear it. They might wonder what kind of piano would get those weird pitches...
> Other than that, I agree with Carl--less reverb, PLEASE!...I'd love a
> almost completely bone dry 'honkey tonk crowded bar' ambience. The
> "bathing in reverb" just isn't right....and I may be in the minority
> in saying this, but a little bit crappier piano sound, like a
> Nancarrow-esque bright and twangy 'busted upright', seems
> aesthetically appropriate. I would even enjoy a few mistuned unisons
> for spice. I want to hear the barroom brawling! As it stands, the
> sound is too much like a classical concert hall for me. Maybe fixing
> the reverb alone won't make that matter as much.
> I just re-recorded it with "small hall" reverb, and at a higher bit rate (192 instead of 128). I'm still getting some noise in the mix.

I almost wrote in a few parts using "parallel commas", doubling certain pitches 16.7 cents high or low. I should do that for a future composition. I still prefer a bright grand piano sound (MIDI program 2); I did try using honky-tonk piano (4), but it sounded cheesy and clich� to me. I would have occasional 16.7-cent detuned notes for a "honky-tonk" effect; it would give a sort of dual personality to the piano - a classical grand that wishes it was in the Tin Pan Alley scene.

Since I'm always revising things I'm writing, a future revision may contain that effect. Anyway, glad you liked it - and keep up the good work with H-Pi. I may need a dedicated 72-tone keyboard someday...

~D.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Danny Wier <dawiertx@...> wrote:
>
> Anyway, glad you liked it - and keep up the good
> work with H-Pi. I may need a dedicated 72-tone keyboard someday...
>

Danny--you're confusing me, Aaron Krister Johnson, with Aaron Andrew
Hunt. I don't own H-Pi, he does! :)

-AKJ.

Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Danny Wier <dawiertx@...> wrote:
> >> Anyway, glad you liked it - and keep up the good >> work with H-Pi. I may need a dedicated 72-tone keyboard someday...
>>
>> >
> Danny--you're confusing me, Aaron Krister Johnson, with Aaron Andrew
> Hunt. I don't own H-Pi, he does! :)
> Blah, you two have such similar names! Plus I'm running on so little sleep, I'd get you both confused with myself. ~D.

Michael Sheiman wrote:
> Danny,
>
> Wow this is good!!!
> So much spunk in this; so upbeat and enthusiastic...some of the velocity changes seem a bit extreme and forced...otherwise this sounds almost super-humanly smooth to my ears.
> Bravo!!
>
> Now, if you don't mind, what scale(s) are you using for this "precision madness"? I want to try... :-D

Thanks, and I don't mind at all, though I'll have to give you the short version here; I don't even remember all of the rules right now.

Basically, you want octaves to be 72 commas (1/72-octave steps), fifths 24 and fourths 30 - those are the perfect consonances. Major thirds are almost always 23 steps, i.e. four ET semitones lowered by a comma (16.667 cents). Diatonic semitones are usually, but not always, 7 steps. After that, it gets complicated - major seconds can be 11 or 12 commas, minor thirds usually 19 but sometimes 18, the augmented fourth tritone 35 but the diminished fifth 37, chromatic semitones 4 or 5, neutral thirds 21, neutral seconds 9 or less commonly 10, and so on ad nauseam. The diesis, or the difference between two enharmonic tones and also a half sharp or flat, can either be 2 or 3 commas; the latter case would be the quarter tone.

The voicing of the minor seventh depends on the chord. A resolving seventh chord (e.g. the V7-I progression) is 0 23 42 60, the resolved (harmonic) seventh is 0 23 42 58, and the minor seventh chord is usually 0 19 42 61, but occasionally a rougher-sounding 0 18 42 60. You often have to watch out for the "comma pump" problem in certain chord progressions.

In scales containing sesquitones (augmented seconds), including the harmonic minor and maqam Hijaz, the step size is generally 16. The minor second is raised by a comma and the major third is lowered by a comma, producing the tetrachord 7 16 7 (cumulative: 7 23 30).

I also group the 72 pitches in the octave into 41 groups, and again into 31. I'm still working on that document that explains how I do this. Just visualize building a replica of your favorite architectural wonder using LEGO (TM) blocks - you get not-quite-precise approximations of Pythagorean and meantone. I'll have to stop here for now, but read about Miracle temperament in the meantime, if you haven't already.

~D.

There's no rush, and it's okay if you don't get the piano one done. I'm just curious about how it sounds with a better orchestral sound. ~D.

Mike Battaglia wrote:
> Danny: Sorry I haven't gotten to hook it up in East West yet. I got
> your messages.
>
> School just started for me, so I'm a little busy at the moment, but I
> plan to do it. The piano one will be more difficult, but we'll see how
> it goes.
>
> -Mike

Danny- I like this one MUCH better! Great! -Carl

>I just re-recorded it with "small hall" reverb, and at a higher bit rate
>(192 instead of 128). I'm still getting some noise in the mix.
>
>I almost wrote in a few parts using "parallel commas", doubling certain
>pitches 16.7 cents high or low. I should do that for a future
>composition. I still prefer a bright grand piano sound (MIDI program 2);
>I did try using honky-tonk piano (4), but it sounded cheesy and cliché
>to me. I would have occasional 16.7-cent detuned notes for a
>"honky-tonk" effect; it would give a sort of dual personality to the
>piano - a classical grand that wishes it was in the Tin Pan Alley scene.
>
>Since I'm always revising things I'm writing, a future revision may
>contain that effect. Anyway, glad you liked it - and keep up the good
>work with H-Pi. I may need a dedicated 72-tone keyboard someday...
>
>~D.

I loved this piece too, Danny. I listened when it was first posted.

One thing I thought of when listening was that it would be a
neat thing for the piece to exist in two versions: one that is only
computer-playable and one that is human-playable (since
there are some passages that there that are beyond the
capabilities of human hands). Obviously the human-playable
version would have to be simplified in some places, and probably
if it were a bit shorter that would be better.

And I think AKJ would b a great candidate for a performance!

Cheers,
Aaron
====

Aaron Hunt
H-Pi Instruments

Please note that I choose not to be involved in discussions of things H-Pi related outside
of the H-Pi forums,
</tuning/topicId_unknown.html#74905>
and I cordially invite everyone who is interested to please join and participate.
Forum: <http://www.h-pi.com/phpBB2/>
Blog: <http://www.h-pi.com/wordpress/>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Danny Wier <dawiertx@> wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, glad you liked it - and keep up the good
> > work with H-Pi. I may need a dedicated 72-tone keyboard someday...
> >
>
> Danny--you're confusing me, Aaron Krister Johnson, with Aaron Andrew
> Hunt. I don't own H-Pi, he does! :)
>
> -AKJ.
>