Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic New piece: Law Of Octaves

Hi all,

I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. It's another take on an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift Dhikr II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines between stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on the other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it. As always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.

- Dave
http://mysterybear.net

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Nice Piece as always!!

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Dave Seidel wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at
> http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. > <http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves.> It's another take on
> an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift Dhikr
> II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines between
> stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on the
> other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it. As
> always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all
> licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.
>
> - Dave
> http://mysterybear.net <http://mysterybear.net>
>
>

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

I see you used mp3gain on the mp3 file. Good man!

-Carl

At 12:15 PM 8/12/2008, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at
>http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. It's another take on
>an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift Dhikr
>II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines between
>stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on the
>other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it. As
>always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all
>licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.
>
>- Dave
>http://mysterybear.net

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I liked tho OGG!

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> I see you used mp3gain on the mp3 file. Good man!
>
> -Carl
>
> At 12:15 PM 8/12/2008, you wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at
> >http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. > <http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves.> It's another take on
> >an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift Dhikr
> >II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines between
> >stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on the
> >other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it. As
> >always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all
> >licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.
> >
> >- Dave
> >http://mysterybear.net <http://mysterybear.net>
>
>

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

Actually, I used it only to examine the gain, not to alter it -- I was able to get a reasonable level right out of Csound. The only post-processing steps were

1. r8brain to convert 96K/32 down to 44.1K/16
2. Audacity (using Lame) to convert to MP3.

I did in fact consult your earlier advice about levels, though, it's been very helpful.

- Dave

Carl Lumma wrote:
> I see you used mp3gain on the mp3 file. Good man!
> > -Carl
> > At 12:15 PM 8/12/2008, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at >> http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. It's another take on >> an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift Dhikr >> II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines between >> stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on the >> other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it. As >> always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all >> licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.
>>
>> - Dave
>> http://mysterybear.net
> > > ------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >

🔗Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...>

On the third hand is "asonance". I like the piece and how you've
presented it, with a Csound file and all.

One thing about the .csd - your anti-aliasing filter isn't functional!

When you have control over specific partials, as you do here,
you can prevent aliasing with simple "logic circuits". For example
Cps of the partial is cps*partial number, if that is > sr*.5,
amplitude equals 0. I do this longhand so to speak, but it's no sweat
due to copy and paste, and I'm always modulating individual partials
anyway.

IIRC, the Adsyn opcode requires an i rate # of partials, so if you
have a loop going to generate the partials you'd have to cook up some
kind of logic circuit for that- I can't remember if this actually
worksthough, because of conflicts between different kinds of rates,
hehe. But you could just calculate the highest frequency
that is going to occur and limit your number of partials that way.

Either way, you could use Adsyn to generate the fibonacci series
Nyquist-high, probably have to incorporate tables read with an offset
of one then added, the result written into the table Adsyn reads for
partial number (* of fundamental). I'd have to mull it over a bit but
anyway you see what I'm saying.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Dave Seidel <dave@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at
> http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. It's another
take on
> an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift
Dhikr
> II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines
between
> stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on
the
> other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it.
As
> always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all
> licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.
>
> - Dave
> http://mysterybear.net
>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

what is the difference in sound between aliasing and anti-aliasing?

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

Cameron Bobro wrote:
>
> On the third hand is "asonance". I like the piece and how you've
> presented it, with a Csound file and all.
>
> One thing about the .csd - your anti-aliasing filter isn't functional!
>
> When you have control over specific partials, as you do here,
> you can prevent aliasing with simple "logic circuits". For example
> Cps of the partial is cps*partial number, if that is > sr*.5,
> amplitude equals 0. I do this longhand so to speak, but it's no sweat
> due to copy and paste, and I'm always modulating individual partials
> anyway.
>
> IIRC, the Adsyn opcode requires an i rate # of partials, so if you
> have a loop going to generate the partials you'd have to cook up some
> kind of logic circuit for that- I can't remember if this actually
> worksthough, because of conflicts between different kinds of rates,
> hehe. But you could just calculate the highest frequency
> that is going to occur and limit your number of partials that way.
>
> Either way, you could use Adsyn to generate the fibonacci series
> Nyquist-high, probably have to incorporate tables read with an offset
> of one then added, the result written into the table Adsyn reads for
> partial number (* of fundamental). I'd have to mull it over a bit but
> anyway you see what I'm saying.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, Dave Seidel <dave@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at
> > http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. > <http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves.> It's another
> take on
> > an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift
> Dhikr
> > II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines
> between
> > stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on
> the
> > other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it.
> As
> > always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all
> > licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.
> >
> > - Dave
> > http://mysterybear.net <http://mysterybear.net>
> >
>
>

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 23:42 +1000, Kraig Grady wrote:
> what is the difference in sound between aliasing and anti-aliasing?

You hear aliasing when the high notes with a rich timbre all get gnarled
up. It can be done deliberately with FM synths but it's usually not
something you want. Anti-aliasing means you don't get aliasing. You
play the same note higher up and it sounds the same, but higher. If
it's done roughly you'll also find the timbre gets a bit smoother. But
if it's done properly you won't hear that because the partials you lose
are inaudible anyway.

Graham

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

Cameron-

This is a very good analysis of the aliasing issue. It's hard for me
to tell how well his filter is working by ear, the piece itself seems
to have such a complex digital sound nature, but as far as I know, the
code is correct.

But, as you say, with DSP, it's better to start with a band-limited
signal if at all possible, rather than filtering later. Csound has a
particular 'digital sterile' sound (of course, one might want this
sound) unless one takes care to use some warming tricks, and that
includes injecting noise, dynamic instability, and band-limiting into
the equations. And since this is not a real-time Csound file, one
could use the more cpu intensive 'vco' opcode which simulates some of
the warm band-limited characteristics of a true analog oscillator.

Anyway, cool sounds, Dave...and I'm curious to do an A/B comparison of
the results if you choose to try another anti-aliasing approach.

-AKJ

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Cameron Bobro"
<misterbobro@...> wrote:
>
> On the third hand is "asonance". I like the piece and how you've
> presented it, with a Csound file and all.
>
> One thing about the .csd - your anti-aliasing filter isn't functional!
>
> When you have control over specific partials, as you do here,
> you can prevent aliasing with simple "logic circuits". For example
> Cps of the partial is cps*partial number, if that is > sr*.5,
> amplitude equals 0. I do this longhand so to speak, but it's no sweat
> due to copy and paste, and I'm always modulating individual partials
> anyway.
>
> IIRC, the Adsyn opcode requires an i rate # of partials, so if you
> have a loop going to generate the partials you'd have to cook up some
> kind of logic circuit for that- I can't remember if this actually
> worksthough, because of conflicts between different kinds of rates,
> hehe. But you could just calculate the highest frequency
> that is going to occur and limit your number of partials that way.
>
> Either way, you could use Adsyn to generate the fibonacci series
> Nyquist-high, probably have to incorporate tables read with an offset
> of one then added, the result written into the table Adsyn reads for
> partial number (* of fundamental). I'd have to mull it over a bit but
> anyway you see what I'm saying.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Dave Seidel <dave@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've just put up another piece, called "Law Of Octaves", at
> > http://mysterybear.net/article/28/law-of-octaves. It's another
> take on
> > an idea I've worked with previously in "Drift Dhikr" and "Drift
> Dhikr
> > II", but with a richer, more complex sound, exploring the lines
> between
> > stasis and change on the one hand, and consonance and dissonance on
> the
> > other hand (not sure about the third hand). I hope you enjoy it.
> As
> > always, the CSD is there, as well as MP3 and OGG renderings, all
> > licensed under a Creative Commons "Attribution" license.
> >
> > - Dave
> > http://mysterybear.net
> >
>

🔗Carl Lumma <carl@...>

🔗plopper6 <billwestfall@...>

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

Cameron, thanks for the great comments.

I think I understand what I did wrong with the anti-aliasing: the
point is, it's too late to try to use a filter because the aliasing
has already occurred at that point, is that correct?

To be honest, I'm not sure that code makes any real difference at all
in the sound of the piece, it was kind of an experiment. In the end,
the thing that made the most difference was reducing the partials in
the Fibonacci wave -- if you look at the code, you'll see that I
started with more, but commented them out one by one until I got the
degree of smoothness that I wanted.

- Dave

P.S. When are you going to post some more of your own music, dude? I
want to hear more!

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

Thanks for the comments, Aaron. As I just replied to Cameron, I
suspect that the filtering didn't really do much for the resulting
sound anyhow, and that it made more of a difference to reduce the
number of partials in the waveform.

I should point out that the OGG and MP3 renderings were both produced
through a two-step process:
1. using r8brain to convert from 96K/32 to 44.1/16
2. using Audacity to comvert to MP3 and OGG
The relevance to this discussion being that r8brain does dithering,
which does (as I understand it, which isn't all that far) introduce a
certain kind of noise. I also use one of Csound's better reverb
opcodes (reverbsc) for its warming properties.

- Dave

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> Cameron-
>
> This is a very good analysis of the aliasing issue. It's hard for me
> to tell how well his filter is working by ear, the piece itself seems
> to have such a complex digital sound nature, but as far as I know, the
> code is correct.
>
> But, as you say, with DSP, it's better to start with a band-limited
> signal if at all possible, rather than filtering later. Csound has a
> particular 'digital sterile' sound (of course, one might want this
> sound) unless one takes care to use some warming tricks, and that
> includes injecting noise, dynamic instability, and band-limiting into
> the equations. And since this is not a real-time Csound file, one
> could use the more cpu intensive 'vco' opcode which simulates some of
> the warm band-limited characteristics of a true analog oscillator.
>
> Anyway, cool sounds, Dave...and I'm curious to do an A/B comparison of
> the results if you choose to try another anti-aliasing approach.
>
> -AKJ

🔗Dave Seidel <dave@...>

I'm not sure, it depends on what you mean by "choppy". There's a lot
of beating as a result of the glissandi, which was deliberate. And
also There's a certain amount of roughness from using something more
than a plain sine wave.

- Dave

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "plopper6" <billwestfall@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Dave Seidel <dave@> wrote:
> The sound seems choppy compared to other things you have posted. Just
> curious if it was deliberate or some artifact of the tools you used
> this time?
>

🔗Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Seidel" <dave@...> wrote:
>
> Cameron, thanks for the great comments.
>
> I think I understand what I did wrong with the anti-aliasing: the
> point is, it's too late to try to use a filter because the aliasing
> has already occurred at that point, is that correct?

Yes, the aliases are already there in the audible range. But with an
sr of 96k though you'd have to have a pretty high fundamental for a
34-harmonic tone to alias- even a 1000 Hz fundamental wouldn't
generate aliasing (up to 1411 Hz fundamental to be more precise).

The sound of radical tone generation, like FM on complex carriers, or
wave terrain synthesis, is a whole different ball of wax when there
is no aliasing, but you have to go to 192k or 384k sampling rate, LOL.

>
> To be honest, I'm not sure that code makes any real difference at
all
> in the sound of the piece, it was kind of an experiment. In the
end,
> the thing that made the most difference was reducing the partials in
> the Fibonacci wave -- if you look at the code, you'll see that I
> started with more, but commented them out one by one until I got the
> degree of smoothness that I wanted.
>
> - Dave
>
> P.S. When are you going to post some more of your own music, dude?
I
> want to hear more!

Well I'm uploading some stuff to our server at the moment, first a
little microtonal chord sequence.