the new moog guitar

if it didn't cost three billion dollars, this would be a beautiful
instrument to de/re fret :

http://tinyurl.com/59fsxr

http://tinyurl.com/6rdvh6

It seems to be a guitar with an embedded ebow for each string

active magnetic feedback loop

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:30 PM, daniel_anthony_stearns <
daniel_anthony_stearns@...> wrote:

> if it didn't cost three billion dollars, this would be a beautiful
> instrument to de/re fret :
>
> http://tinyurl.com/59fsxr
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6rdvh6
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 12:30 PM 6/12/2008, you wrote:
>if it didn't cost three billion dollars, this would be a beautiful
>instrument to de/re fret :
>
> http://tinyurl.com/59fsxr
> http://tinyurl.com/6rdvh6

I was thinking the same thing. I was gonna post to tuning
but didn't think it was quite on-topic enough. To quote a
friend (who leads a band), "I have the most expensive guitar
of anyone I know, and it's still only 2/3 the price of
that one." Gotta love Moog though. They always make
_instruments_ and I'm sure this is no exception. -Carl

Here's another peripherally-related link:
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/06/11/hearing-sound.html

I've always been aware of a sensation of spaces
and objects through hearing, and then this one time
when I lost hearing in my left ear for a few
days (due to a spastic maneuver with a q-tip) I had
the constant sensation there was a wall right to the
left of me.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Chris
Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> It seems to be a guitar with an embedded ebow for each string

It's more like the Sustainiac/Sustainer, with two drivers that double
as pickups instead of one, and the controls for selecting neck vs.
bridge driver, harmonics, etc.

On a related more OT note, you may still be able to get Peter Blasser
to build a Namasitar for you, fretted for any tuning you want, for
about $600:

http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/namastitar/index.html

I don't think the strings sustain infinitely on the Namasitar, but
its onboard oscillator probably does.

no offense, but do you know what an ebow is?

I think it is the same thing you are referring too.
I doubt anyone could get past thier patent for magnetic manipulation of
strings
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:03 PM, paolovalladolid <phv40@...> wrote:

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Chris
> Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > It seems to be a guitar with an embedded ebow for each string
>
> It's more like the Sustainiac/Sustainer, with two drivers that double
> as pickups instead of one, and the controls for selecting neck vs.
> bridge driver, harmonics, etc.
>
> On a related more OT note, you may still be able to get Peter Blasser
> to build a Namasitar for you, fretted for any tuning you want, for
> about $600:
>
> http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/namastitar/index.html
>
> I don't think the strings sustain infinitely on the Namasitar, but
> its onboard oscillator probably does.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.sustainiac.com/stplus.htm

I thought the eBow had a patent on magnetically sustaining the strings
as well, but I guess not.

I think that the difference is that the eBow actually generates string
vibrations, but the sustainer simply keeps them going. To be honest,
I'm not really sure.

-Mike

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> no offense, but do you know what an ebow is?
>
> I think it is the same thing you are referring too.
> I doubt anyone could get past thier patent for magnetic manipulation of
> strings
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:03 PM, paolovalladolid <phv40@...> wrote:
>
>> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>,
>
>> "Chris
>> Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > It seems to be a guitar with an embedded ebow for each string
>>
>> It's more like the Sustainiac/Sustainer, with two drivers that double
>> as pickups instead of one, and the controls for selecting neck vs.
>> bridge driver, harmonics, etc.
>>
>> On a related more OT note, you may still be able to get Peter Blasser
>> to build a Namasitar for you, fretted for any tuning you want, for
>> about $600:
>>
>> http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/namastitar/index.html
>>
>> I don't think the strings sustain infinitely on the Namasitar, but
>> its onboard oscillator probably does.
>>
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Furthermore, from http://www.moogmusic.com/moogguitar/:

"Why add the Moog Guitar to your arsenal?

Because there is nothing else like it. It sustains like no other
sustainer. The mute mode has never been heard on any guitar.
Controlled sustain allows you to play single lines or polyphonic lines
without muting technique. Use the foot pedal to pull harmonics from
the guitar or control the frequency of the Moog ladder filter."

Use the foot pedal to pull harmonics from the guitar? Damn it, how?
I've been looking for a pedal like that for about 3 years.

-Mike

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> http://www.sustainiac.com/stplus.htm
>
> I thought the eBow had a patent on magnetically sustaining the strings
> as well, but I guess not.
>
> I think that the difference is that the eBow actually generates string
> vibrations, but the sustainer simply keeps them going. To be honest,
> I'm not really sure.
>
> -Mike
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>> no offense, but do you know what an ebow is?
>>
>> I think it is the same thing you are referring too.
>> I doubt anyone could get past thier patent for magnetic manipulation of
>> strings
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:03 PM, paolovalladolid <phv40@...> wrote:
>>
>>> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com <MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>,
>>
>>> "Chris
>>> Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > It seems to be a guitar with an embedded ebow for each string
>>>
>>> It's more like the Sustainiac/Sustainer, with two drivers that double
>>> as pickups instead of one, and the controls for selecting neck vs.
>>> bridge driver, harmonics, etc.
>>>
>>> On a related more OT note, you may still be able to get Peter Blasser
>>> to build a Namasitar for you, fretted for any tuning you want, for
>>> about $600:
>>>
>>> http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/namastitar/index.html
>>>
>>> I don't think the strings sustain infinitely on the Namasitar, but
>>> its onboard oscillator probably does.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> no offense, but do you know what an ebow is?
>
> I think it is the same thing you are referring too.
> I doubt anyone could get past thier patent for magnetic manipulation of
> strings
> Check out Sustaniac, Michael Brook and also the Fernandez Sustainer guitar.

--
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Chris
Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> no offense, but do you know what an ebow is?
>
> I think it is the same thing you are referring too.

I disagree.

You can move the Ebow along the string to vary dynamics and selection
of harmonics. You cannot do that with Sustainiac/Sustainer. On the
other hand, the Ebow cannot sustain more than one string at a time.

For these reasons, I consider the Ebow to be a totally different type
of tool than the Sustainiac/Sustainer. That is why some Sustainiac/
Sustainer users also have Ebows.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
Battaglia" <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.sustainiac.com/stplus.htm
>
> I thought the eBow had a patent on magnetically sustaining the
strings
> as well, but I guess not.
>
> I think that the difference is that the eBow actually generates
string
> vibrations, but the sustainer simply keeps them going. To be honest,
> I'm not really sure.

My Fernandes Sustainer could start drive a string without me plucking
anything if I turned the Drive knob all the way up. If the knob was
all the way down, the guitar functioned just liked any other guitar
(no Sustainer). With the knob close to all the way up, slight plucks
would kick in the Sustain. And obviously with the knob on the other
side, you have to pluck harder to get the string to ustain.

Man, so if the sustainiac/sustainer pickup already does all of this,
what exactly is so special about this Moog guitar? Is their sustaining
pickup more versatile than the existing ones? For $6500 I'd expect
they've thrown stuff in there that's never been done before, not just
taken existing things and raised the price on them.

Although to be honest, the harmonic pedal might be worth it just by itself.

-Mike

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:45 PM, paolovalladolid <phv40@...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
>
> Battaglia" <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.sustainiac.com/stplus.htm
>>
>> I thought the eBow had a patent on magnetically sustaining the
> strings
>> as well, but I guess not.
>>
>> I think that the difference is that the eBow actually generates
> string
>> vibrations, but the sustainer simply keeps them going. To be honest,
>> I'm not really sure.
>
> My Fernandes Sustainer could start drive a string without me plucking
> anything if I turned the Drive knob all the way up. If the knob was
> all the way down, the guitar functioned just liked any other guitar
> (no Sustainer). With the knob close to all the way up, slight plucks
> would kick in the Sustain. And obviously with the knob on the other
> side, you have to pluck harder to get the string to ustain.
>
>

For one thing, the Moog guitar has TWO string drivers instead of one
like the Sustainer/Sustainiac. One at neck position, the other at
bridge. And the ability to select between the two, and blend to
taste, plus whatever other control(s) I may be overlooking.

And as I mentioned before, one problem with the Sustainer is the low
strings quickly dominate the high ones when sustaining chords. Moog
claims to have solved this problem, but their solution requires
"special" strings. They can get around this though if they can work
out partnerships with multiple string manufacturers. The need for
special strings didn't stop the Chapman Stick or Steinberger
Transtrem Guitar from selling for example.

Other stuff not in the Sustainer/Sustainiac that I recall(some which
you noticed, some maybe you didn't - don't feel bad, I'm all about
the info, nothing more):

- Built in Moog lowpass filter - classic ladder design

- Pedal interface for controlling filter and Harmonic Blends
parameter(s)

- Electronic muting

- Controlled Sustain mode which auto-mutes any string not being
played.

- You can vary the balance between positive and negative Vo Power
(one side is all muting, the other is all sustain).

- All these gizmos stuffed into a boutique guitar. Someone called
Zion Guitars (which makes the actual guitar, minus the electronics)
for a quote on a similar guitar without the Moog in it - $4500 was
the response, which is typical boutique luthier pricing. Guys like
Scott French and Saul Koll who charge "only" $2500 for some guitars
are considered to be on the cheap side of boutique.

Maybe a lower price could be gotten if Moog was able to get a deal
with Samick or some other Korean manufacturer. But that goes against
their whole aesthetic - making everything in American facilities and
such.

Paolo

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike
Battaglia" <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> Man, so if the sustainiac/sustainer pickup already does all of this,
> what exactly is so special about this Moog guitar? Is their
sustaining
> pickup more versatile than the existing ones? For $6500 I'd expect
> they've thrown stuff in there that's never been done before, not
just
> taken existing things and raised the price on them.
>
> Although to be honest, the harmonic pedal might be worth it just by
itself.
>
> -Mike
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 6:45 PM, paolovalladolid <phv40@...> wrote:
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@...m, "Mike
> >
> > Battaglia" <battaglia01@> wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.sustainiac.com/stplus.htm
> >>
> >> I thought the eBow had a patent on magnetically sustaining the
> > strings
> >> as well, but I guess not.
> >>
> >> I think that the difference is that the eBow actually generates
> > string
> >> vibrations, but the sustainer simply keeps them going. To be
honest,
> >> I'm not really sure.
> >
> > My Fernandes Sustainer could start drive a string without me
plucking
> > anything if I turned the Drive knob all the way up. If the knob
was
> > all the way down, the guitar functioned just liked any other
guitar
> > (no Sustainer). With the knob close to all the way up, slight
plucks
> > would kick in the Sustain. And obviously with the knob on the
other
> > side, you have to pluck harder to get the string to ustain.
> >
> >
>

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:52 PM, paolovalladolid <phv40@...> wrote:
> For one thing, the Moog guitar has TWO string drivers instead of one
> like the Sustainer/Sustainiac. One at neck position, the other at
> bridge. And the ability to select between the two, and blend to
> taste, plus whatever other control(s) I may be overlooking.
>
> And as I mentioned before, one problem with the Sustainer is the low
> strings quickly dominate the high ones when sustaining chords. Moog
> claims to have solved this problem, but their solution requires
> "special" strings. They can get around this though if they can work
> out partnerships with multiple string manufacturers. The need for
> special strings didn't stop the Chapman Stick or Steinberger
> Transtrem Guitar from selling for example.
>
> Other stuff not in the Sustainer/Sustainiac that I recall(some which
> you noticed, some maybe you didn't - don't feel bad, I'm all about
> the info, nothing more):
>
> - Built in Moog lowpass filter - classic ladder design
>
> - Pedal interface for controlling filter and Harmonic Blends
> parameter(s)
>
> - Electronic muting
>
> - Controlled Sustain mode which auto-mutes any string not being
> played.
>
> - You can vary the balance between positive and negative Vo Power
> (one side is all muting, the other is all sustain).
>
> - All these gizmos stuffed into a boutique guitar. Someone called
> Zion Guitars (which makes the actual guitar, minus the electronics)
> for a quote on a similar guitar without the Moog in it - $4500 was
> the response, which is typical boutique luthier pricing. Guys like
> Scott French and Saul Koll who charge "only" $2500 for some guitars
> are considered to be on the cheap side of boutique.
>
> Maybe a lower price could be gotten if Moog was able to get a deal
> with Samick or some other Korean manufacturer. But that goes against
> their whole aesthetic - making everything in American facilities and
> such.

Well I hope Moog sees the light. Who cares about what wood the neck
and body are made of if you could get THAT guitar for $3000 cheaper?
Man.

Also, it would be amazing if Moog sold the electronics to the guitar
so that you can fit them to an existing guitar as well. I sure hope
so.

-Mike

the ebow does not create the vibration - it sustains and possibly,
depending on how you play it, enhances it in a manner like feed back

I have owned one since the early 80's

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>
wrote:

> http://www.sustainiac.com/stplus.htm
>
> I thought the eBow had a patent on magnetically sustaining the strings
> as well, but I guess not.
>
> I think that the difference is that the eBow actually generates string
> vibrations, but the sustainer simply keeps them going. To be honest,
> I'm not really sure.
>
> -Mike
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...<chrisvaisvil%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > no offense, but do you know what an ebow is?
> >
> > I think it is the same thing you are referring too.
> > I doubt anyone could get past thier patent for magnetic manipulation of
> > strings
> > On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 4:03 PM, paolovalladolid <phv40@...<phv40%40hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com<MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com><MakeMicroMusic%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> >> "Chris
> >> Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > It seems to be a guitar with an embedded ebow for each string
> >>
> >> It's more like the Sustainiac/Sustainer, with two drivers that double
> >> as pickups instead of one, and the controls for selecting neck vs.
> >> bridge driver, harmonics, etc.
> >>
> >> On a related more OT note, you may still be able to get Peter Blasser
> >> to build a Namasitar for you, fretted for any tuning you want, for
> >> about $600:
> >>
> >> http://www.ciat-lonbarde.net/namastitar/index.html
> >>
> >> I don't think the strings sustain infinitely on the Namasitar, but
> >> its onboard oscillator probably does.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> the ebow does not create the vibration - it sustains and possibly,
> depending on how you play it, enhances it in a manner like feed back
>
> I have owned one since the early 80's

It sure does. If I hold it over a string, the string starts vibrating.

I've owned one just as long. If the EBow doesn't create the
vibration, what does?

--
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com

it says in the manual that it will amplify what is there, not create it

pretty much just fretting a string does it

I'm surprised you did not notice that
the device is made to feedback vibrations

if not - how can it find the frequency of the string?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:04 PM, David Beardsley <db@...> wrote:

> Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> > the ebow does not create the vibration - it sustains and possibly,
> > depending on how you play it, enhances it in a manner like feed back
> >
> > I have owned one since the early 80's
>
> It sure does. If I hold it over a string, the string starts vibrating.
>
> I've owned one just as long. If the EBow doesn't create the
> vibration, what does?
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> it says in the manual that it will amplify what is there, not create it
>
> pretty much just fretting a string does it
>
> I'm surprised you did not notice that
> the device is made to feedback vibrations
>
> if not - how can it find the frequency of the string?

I don't think I ever read the manual. I always thought the battery in the ebow
powered a magnet that excited the string. All I have to do is set the ebow on the string
and the string will eventually take off. It even happens on an acoustic guitar.

If I stop the string from vibrating with my hand and the ebow is on, the
string just takes off and starts vibrating. Maybe you need a fresh battery...
is that a real Ebow or a Sears Ebow?

--
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com

David Beardsley wrote:
> If I stop the string from vibrating with my hand and the ebow is on, the
> string just takes off and starts vibrating. > I mean after I let go of the string, the string just takes off. All Ebow...

--
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com

http://www.ebow.com/ebow/pg/minicd/EBowPlayersGuide.pdf

that might help you

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:11 PM, David Beardsley <db@...> wrote:

> David Beardsley wrote:
> > If I stop the string from vibrating with my hand and the ebow is on, the
> > string just takes off and starts vibrating.
> >
>
> I mean after I let go of the string, the string just takes off. All Ebow...
>
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris Vaisvil wrote:
> it says in the manual that it will amplify what is there, not create it
> Straight from the manual you just posted:

How the EBow Works

Powered by a 9 volt battery, the EBow produces a magnetic drive field which in
effect bows the guitar string. This field emanates from the blue LED end of the
DriveChannel and feeds directly into your guitar pickup when brought near it.

For maximum drive, the bowed string should run down the
middle of the DriveChannel and vibrate freely in this field.
Just hold the EBow in place and fret the vibrating string with your left hand.

--
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com

with my original chrome ebow I need to do "something" to get it to go

even with a fresh battery - this is the manual for a new ebow

which my son has.... but I still like mine better

here is an example of what I did with it.....

a couple people liked it... but it is not microtonal - please forgive being
off topic
I will now shut up

http://www.traxinspace.com/song/39996

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>
wrote:

> http://www.ebow.com/ebow/pg/minicd/EBowPlayersGuide.pdf
>
> that might help you
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 11:11 PM, David Beardsley <db@...> wrote:
>
>> David Beardsley wrote:
>> > If I stop the string from vibrating with my hand and the ebow is on, the
>> > string just takes off and starts vibrating.
>> >
>>
>> I mean after I let go of the string, the string just takes off. All
>> Ebow...
>>
>> --
>> * David Beardsley
>> * http://biink.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> the ebow does not create the vibration - it sustains and possibly,
>> depending on how you play it, enhances it in a manner like feed back
>>
>> I have owned one since the early 80's
>
>It sure does.

Indeed.

-Carl

Man I just went completely sustainiac/moog crazy for the last hour. I
can't tell if the "harmonic pedal" actually can, in a predictable way,
generate harmonics from the strings or not. It might also just pull
random harmonics with no meaning out from the strings.

The first person to come up with a pedal that will let you go from the
fundamental to the octave partial to the fifth and etc all the way up
the harmonic series, especially for multiple notes... I'm buying
shares in the company. Defretted guitar + that kind of potential = the
ultimate JI instrument, imo.

-Mike

Can you sustain a specific harmonic with an ebow? Do you have to hold
it above a node or between 2 nodes?

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Battaglia"
<battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> Man I just went completely sustainiac/moog crazy for the last hour. I
> can't tell if the "harmonic pedal" actually can, in a predictable way,
> generate harmonics from the strings or not. It might also just pull
> random harmonics with no meaning out from the strings.
>
> The first person to come up with a pedal that will let you go from the
> fundamental to the octave partial to the fifth and etc all the way up
> the harmonic series, especially for multiple notes... I'm buying
> shares in the company. Defretted guitar + that kind of potential = the
> ultimate JI instrument, imo.
>
> -Mike
>

Well.... I guess I'm wrong.

If you notice though for a quick, and in my case, reasonable attack,
they suggest hammer ons or some such.

but,,, how does this negate my observation about the moog guitar?

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Carl Lumma <carl@...> wrote:

> >> the ebow does not create the vibration - it sustains and possibly,
> >> depending on how you play it, enhances it in a manner like feed back
> >>
> >> I have owned one since the early 80's
> >
> >It sure does.
>
> Indeed.
>
> -Carl
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com,
"daniel_anthony_stearns" <daniel_anthony_stearns@...> wrote:
>
> if it didn't cost three billion dollars, this would be a beautiful
> instrument to de/re fret :
>
> http://tinyurl.com/59fsxr
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6rdvh6
>

It's probably not as user friendly but you could get some
unexpected and interesting noises from those old little
funny shaped Fernandes toy guitars if you combined the
internal speaker and another amplifier.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Fernandes/
ZO-3/10/1
(http://tinyurl.com/6ozngt )

Clark

I know that the ebow guy did make one that covered all six strings,but didn't think it was commercially viable and didn't release them

/^_,',',',_ //^ /Kraig Grady_ ^_,',',',_
Mesotonal Music from:
_'''''''_ ^North/Western Hemisphere: North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>

_'''''''_ ^South/Eastern Hemisphere:
Austronesian Outpost of Anaphoria <http://anaphoriasouth.blogspot.com/>

',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',',

paolovalladolid wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, "Chris
> Vaisvil" <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > no offense, but do you know what an ebow is?
> >
> > I think it is the same thing you are referring too.
>
> I disagree.
>
> You can move the Ebow along the string to vary dynamics and selection
> of harmonics. You cannot do that with Sustainiac/Sustainer. On the
> other hand, the Ebow cannot sustain more than one string at a time.
>
> For these reasons, I consider the Ebow to be a totally different type
> of tool than the Sustainiac/Sustainer. That is why some Sustainiac/
> Sustainer users also have Ebows.
>
>