Re: Novaro & Carrillo

The short articles on Novaro's music in my files are from Heterofonia
and were written by Pedro Michaca Valenzuela and Emiliana de Zubeldia.
They appear to be
about his harmonic ideas, but limited to 12-EDO, though the reproduction
is so
poor that I'm not sure.

Valenzuela, Pedro Michaca 1973. La Pentafoni'a basada en la escala 5a.
de la
serie de los Armon'icos Heterofonia 5 (28): 5-9.

Valenzuela, Pedro Michaca 1973. La Heptafonia Basada en la Escala 7a. de
la
Serie de los Armonicos Naturales. Heterofonia 5(29):5-11.

Emiliana de Zubeldia. 1971. Analisis del Tiento. Heterofonia 3(15):24,
25,
Tiento is a piece by EdZ "de acuerdo con la teori'a de Augusto Novaro."

Emiliana de Zubeldia. 1971. Cinco Estudios de acuerdo con la teori'a
de Novaro. Heterofonia 3(14): 49.This is an ad fir the scores
(De venta en todos los repertorios de mu'sica).

Jose' Antonio Algaraz. 1975. A Propo'sito de Julia'n Carrillo.
Heterofonia 8(3) 20-23.

In Sistema General de Escritura Musical, Ediciones Sonido 13,
Mexico, 1957 there is a list of Carrillo's publications, 12-tone
pieces, and compositions of Sonido 13. Number 86 on the list
is "Solfeo en 50s. y 6os. de tono.
Number 85 is Solfeo in 30s. de tono.
#92 is Estudios para arpa de 30s. de tono.
#94 is Tratado de armonia para 3os.,5os. y 6os. de tono.
#100 Concierto para piano de tercios de tone con acompaniamiento
de orquesta en tonos y semitonos.
Everything else on the compositions list appears to be in 12-tet
or quarter, eighth and/or 16th tones.

I have no listings for his work from 1957 until his death in 1965,
though I have heard that he worked right up to the end.

--John

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date: 1/14/08 5:39 PM

We know that he was at bell labs at one point. And Erv seemed to be
able to trace him in P in the same general area at one time, but does
not seem like they met either.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, John Chalmers <JHCHALMERS@...>
wrote:
>
> The short articles on Novaro's music in my files are from Heterofonia
> and were written by Pedro Michaca Valenzuela and Emiliana de Zubeldia.
> They appear to be
> about his harmonic ideas, but limited to 12-EDO, though the reproduction
> is so
> poor that I'm not sure.
>
> Valenzuela, Pedro Michaca 1973. La Pentafoni'a basada en la escala 5a.
> de la
> serie de los Armon'icos Heterofonia 5 (28): 5-9.
>
> Valenzuela, Pedro Michaca 1973. La Heptafonia Basada en la Escala 7a. de
> la
> Serie de los Armonicos Naturales. Heterofonia 5(29):5-11.
>
> Emiliana de Zubeldia. 1971. Analisis del Tiento. Heterofonia 3(15):24,
> 25,
> Tiento is a piece by EdZ "de acuerdo con la teori'a de Augusto Novaro."
>
> Emiliana de Zubeldia. 1971. Cinco Estudios de acuerdo con la teori'a
> de Novaro. Heterofonia 3(14): 49.This is an ad fir the scores
> (De venta en todos los repertorios de mu'sica).
>
> Jose' Antonio Algaraz. 1975. A Propo'sito de Julia'n Carrillo.
> Heterofonia 8(3) 20-23.
>
> In Sistema General de Escritura Musical, Ediciones Sonido 13,
> Mexico, 1957 there is a list of Carrillo's publications, 12-tone
> pieces, and compositions of Sonido 13. Number 86 on the list
> is "Solfeo en 50s. y 6os. de tono.
> Number 85 is Solfeo in 30s. de tono.
> #92 is Estudios para arpa de 30s. de tono.
> #94 is Tratado de armonia para 3os.,5os. y 6os. de tono.
> #100 Concierto para piano de tercios de tone con acompaniamiento
> de orquesta en tonos y semitonos.
> Everything else on the compositions list appears to be in 12-tet
> or quarter, eighth and/or 16th tones.
>
> I have no listings for his work from 1957 until his death in 1965,
> though I have heard that he worked right up to the end.
>
> --John
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date:
1/14/08 5:39 PM
>

I am preparing a trip to Mexico this summer to visit the Carrillo
house which his granchild has turned into a museum and research
centre. I might as well kill two birds with one stone if you guys can
get me in touch anybody related to Novaro and his work
so I can get in touch well in advance.

I would also like to visit the library of the Conservatoire in Mexico
City and some of Carrillo's relatives who I have been in touch with
for a while.

As for the Carrillo and Novaro matter,
Two quotations from:

Jean-Charles François, 1990. 'Fixed Timbre, Dynamic Timbre'
Perspectives of New Music, Vol.28, Nol2 (Summer 1990), pp.112-118

1) "In music of the western tradition, before the electronic era,
timbre was considered secondary, as an ornamentation of pitch"

And so did Novaro who was supported by Carlos Chávez, who wrote
several articles against Carrillo. This might have
turn off Carrillo's ideas of supporting such an innovative young
composer who might have paid the price of this confrontation.
Novaro's lack of formal training might have also been a problem in
the Conservatoire and Carrillo was certainly surprised
he got a Guggeheim grant (which gave him a chance to develop his ideas)

Chávez was the other leading figure of Mexico's contemporary music at
the time, together with Carrillo. That is all it comes
to I would guess, but I should enquire a bit further, specially after
Novaro came back to Mexico completing his Guggeheim
research.

I have been informed by Ernesto Solís Winkler that Carrillo never
tried to monopolize the Sound 13 theories since Carrillo
always trained his students to play in all the microtonal systems and
promoted their musics too! For example the microtonal
works of Rafael Adame, Jerónimo Baqueiro and Elvira Larios were
played in 1924 together with his works for sound 13
which had also just been completed.

This might have all been a politic matter against the Carlos Chávez
group, but nothing to do with music.

As for the music of Julián Carrillo and I would also include here the
work of Johnny Reinhard,
the large division of the octave is not a matter of going as far for
the sake of comparison to the
others but for the sake of timbre.

2) A second quotation from the same article:

"Since it can be measured very precisely by ear, pitch is better
equipped in its capacity to articulate a logical language"

and in the case of Novaro, the language of ratios, but in the case of
Carrillo it was more a matter of a language for the perception.

Let me give you a 3rd quotation:

Cornelia Fales 2002. The Paradox of Timbre. Ethnomusicology, Vol.46,
No.1 (Winter, 2002). pp.56-95

3) "...while timbre is a dimension of central importance to
identifying sources. it is also the dimension that is most divergent
from the
sound in the physical world."

Julián Carrillo was indeed aware of the acoustics (physical world),
but a hundred years ahead of the discoveries
to come through electronic music in the area of timbre.

Now you get a continuum keyboard with a piano sound and you can do
even better than Carrillo in his Balbuceos piece (with chromatic
passages
if you can get 192 ET to work or any higher than that (maybe not
enough MIDI notes, right? ... so maybe we cannot even go beyond his
imagination predicted
yet 100 years after)

Carrillo did explore new timbres through his tunings and pitch theory
and there are indeed many other areas of timbre that
he neglected as we all do but the fact that he was ahead of the
electronics in this matter made him unique.

I respect a lot the work of Novaro as far as pitch is concerned, and
I am sure ithat if he had the technology available today he would
have taken care of timbre too!

QUESTION

Did Novaro absorved the ideas of Harry Partch during his visit to the
US and then combined them with Carrillo's ideas to end up with his
theories???

Now let's get things right. Carrillo considered
timbre to be the most important perception
and he indeed succeed in his field

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]