An addendum to the Sermonette...

Chris, you wrote:

"Fair enough, but I think it's unfair to condemn the entire genre of
"sound art" to the fate of 12-tone modernism...You're not dismissing
novelty itself here, but the music you think has no value beyond it."

I *am* dismissing novelty. Whatever value is left after that wears off,
is left for history to decide, not moi. And history really is the final
arbiter.

Let me put it this way: Kyle quoted someone to the effect of, "...the
problem with 12-tone music was not what it added to our vocabulary but
what it tried to subtract..." You can hardly subtract much more from
"sound art" and still call it music. And after a while, a good deal of
it begins to sound like one composer's ouvre -- the way serialism, heavy
metal or Italian opera does. (There's a joke in there, if you look hard
enough.) Of course, that's just my uninformed opinion again.

Shoenberg's school of musical thought -- very much like minimalism and
other trends -- had some important things to say (thus, had "value");
but beyond that point, its brightest students began to have messianic
delusions and became ideologues. They were completely certain that they
were Historical Prophets of The New Wave, but nearly everything that
came after Uncles Arnold, Alban and Anton quickly lost musical interest
and relevancy to everyone else. There's a very important lesson here for
all of us.

"I still feel torn between these two paths, and different pieces come
out on different sides."

Now we come to the heart of your objections to my perceived slights. In
truth, the problem lies inside your very own self, Chris. You are quite
conflicted about your "two paths", and want to hold both dear until you
come to a final decision --and you will, trust me. It's said one cannot
serve two Masters...

"But in the end, the perceived 'humanity' or lack of it is only an
illusion: whether a melody or soundscape, *I* am still the one who
creates something and then says "Yes! I'd like to share that with
others!" THAT's the real humanity of music,"

And after sharing, you'll find those who praise and those who criticize.
It comes with the territory. It's wise to take both praise and criticism
with a grain of salt and a shotglass full of good humor. If it makes you
feel any better, my own music is pretty much doomed to oblivion -- it's
not got enough novelty, by which I mean it's deficient in ear-splitting
"xenharmony" or soporific drones. Out of sheer cussedness, I continue to
compose anyway. Go figure.

"...whether it's Beethoven or Niblock :)"

Is a Niblock something like a Deadbolt?

I have witness no real novelty in recent times that it seems to be thelast thing we need to worry about. the problem is that music has beenreduced to fashion, what used to be styles. We have now more differentisolated towers (this includes the crossover tower) that subvert thevery meaning of music into group expression.

-----Original Message-----
From: J.Smith [mailto:jsmith9624@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:23 AM
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MMM] An addendum to the Sermonette...

Chris, you wrote:

"Fair enough, but I think it's unfair to condemn the entire genre of
"sound art" to the fate of 12-tone modernism...You're not dismissing
novelty itself here, but the music you think has no value beyond it."

I *am* dismissing novelty. Whatever value is left after that wears off,
is left for history to decide, not moi. And history really is the final
arbiter.

Let me put it this way: Kyle quoted someone to the effect of, "...the
problem with 12-tone music was not what it added to our vocabulary but
what it tried to subtract..." You can hardly subtract much more from
"sound art" and still call it music. And after a while, a good deal of
it begins to sound like one composer's ouvre -- the way serialism, heavy
metal or Italian opera does. (There's a joke in there, if you look hard
enough.) Of course, that's just my uninformed opinion again.

Shoenberg's school of musical thought -- very much like minimalism and
other trends -- had some important things to say (thus, had "value");
but beyond that point, its brightest students began to have messianic
delusions and became ideologues. They were completely certain that they
were Historical Prophets of The New Wave, but nearly everything that
came after Uncles Arnold, Alban and Anton quickly lost musical interest
and relevancy to everyone else. There's a very important lesson here for
all of us.

"I still feel torn between these two paths, and different pieces come
out on different sides."

Now we come to the heart of your objections to my perceived slights. In
truth, the problem lies inside your very own self, Chris. You are quite
conflicted about your "two paths", and want to hold both dear until you
come to a final decision --and you will, trust me. It's said one cannot
serve two Masters...

"But in the end, the perceived 'humanity' or lack of it is only an
illusion: whether a melody or soundscape, *I* am still the one who
creates something and then says "Yes! I'd like to share that with
others!" THAT's the real humanity of music,"

And after sharing, you'll find those who praise and those who criticize.
It comes with the territory. It's wise to take both praise and criticism
with a grain of salt and a shotglass full of good humor. If it makes you
feel any better, my own music is pretty much doomed to oblivion -- it's
not got enough novelty, by which I mean it's deficient in ear-splitting
"xenharmony" or soporific drones. Out of sheer cussedness, I continue to
compose anyway. Go figure.

"...whether it's Beethoven or Niblock :)"

Is a Niblock something like a Deadbolt?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Chris, you wrote:
>
> "Fair enough, but I think it's unfair to condemn the entire genre of
> "sound art" to the fate of 12-tone modernism...You're not dismissing
> novelty itself here, but the music you think has no value beyond it."
>
> I *am* dismissing novelty. Whatever value is left after that wears off,
> is left for history to decide, not moi. And history really is the final
> arbiter.

But you already prophesied what history will decide regarding sound art...

"'New' explorations in the arts will always attract immediate notice
... But after the novelty wears off, and people find little resembling
'humanity' in such art --
nothing intimate and personal they can relate to -- they will fall away
from it. Such art endures only by way of its temporary novety."

> Shoenberg's school of musical thought -- very much like minimalism and
> other trends -- had some important things to say (thus, had "value");
> but beyond that point, its brightest students began to have messianic
> delusions and became ideologues. They were completely certain that they
> were Historical Prophets of The New Wave, but nearly everything that
> came after Uncles Arnold, Alban and Anton quickly lost musical interest
> and relevancy to everyone else. There's a very important lesson here for
> all of us.

Agreed, and that lesson is that those who try to predict what will
"endure" are usually mistaken... :)

Can you point out any minimalist ideologues? Most of them are making
the music that they want to hear, not the music that enlightened
audiences should teach themselves to appreciate.

> And after sharing, you'll find those who praise and those who criticize.
> It comes with the territory. It's wise to take both praise and criticism
> with a grain of salt and a shotglass full of good humor.

I haven't taken anything as personal criticism, but I am interested in
the dialogue surrounding musical trends, which is why I follow KG's
blog.

That's all I'll say on-list, sorry for being OT.

> Is a Niblock something like a Deadbolt?

No, Phil Niblock just a composer that writes music with little
humanity that people will soon fall away from... ;)

Chris Bryan