Here we go again! ;)

Sorry for the verbosity; I need to drop out for a while again, but there should
be some good stuff here.

At 02:55 PM 1/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:
"jacky_ligon" <jacky_ligon@...>
>not import the tuning tables! To me this is an outrage. FM7 has got
>some kind of funky 12 pitch retuning, with a slider that stretches
>the octave.

You forgot that it has a 1 cent resolution which is the most limiting aspect!

"jacky_ligon" <jacky_ligon@...>
Add my name to the list. It is a touchy subject, but one can see that
this is fueled by the popular media. That's why I've been on a
boycott of it since age 18.
This affirmed to me how so many folks are hopelessly brainwashed and
desensitized by the popular media.
Something to reflect about.

14/'92 for online access (spent all summer working to buy a used 14.4 modem; it
was like having DSL now) -- my descent/dissent began...
16/'94 point of no return truly began here... err, now I'm just playing catch
up.. ;)

Here is an interesting sign of the times among my peers. I hope this list
finds it as amusing as I did (hope it is not too off topic):
When the movie Fight Club premiered I enjoyed it, but was not shocked by the
content (not because I am desensitized; I haven't owned a TV or plugged into
that reality for over 3 years now). Many of my peers (almost all) and those
younger than myself were moved by this movie. I discussed this with many people
in the San Luis Obispo area (central coast of CA) and for most it was the first
time they were confronted with a message about living outside
commercial/consumer society. I thought this was a fluke; it must be San Luis
Obispo, a non-metropolitan area that relies on popular media to "get in touch"
with the rest of the world. Well, when I attended the microfest I stayed with a
group of senior students on the Harvey Mudd campus; seemingly bright people.
The discussion of this movie was raised and again the same reaction as the kids
in SLO; shock and amazement about possibly living outside consumer
culture. This amazed me; that and the lifestyle at Harvey Mudd resembled
Disneyland compared to my university experience (I guess an extra $120k buys
you that). Well, off I go to Europe where I stayed in hostels (Paris and
London) and held conversations with people from all over the world. I received
the same reaction by almost everyone my age or younger: shock at the
possibility of living outside consumer society. I actually was presented with a
perfect situation for my anthropological pondering in London (last stop on my
trip) where Fight Club was shown in the hostel and there was a diverse group
of kids watching it that never saw it before. After the movie I initiated a
discussion and guess what? Same reaction by those who had not seen the movie.
Funny thing is that there was a fellow there in the TV lounge who was studying
for a masters in anthropology from UCLA. We went out for beers and had a great
discussion. ;)

Now, I have lived outside a metropolitan area for about 6 years now and my time
in Europe was the longest I have been back to metropolitan areas. Besides
having a great time I noticed that all of those in my peer group despite
race/background/nationality were very similar; similar actions, similar
thoughts, similar hopes for the future. It was rather uncanny.

Try not to be so hard on the younger more pop/consumer culture inclined;
consider it something like the movie Matrix and build a bigger door; and
perhaps a bridge over the powers that be that enforce the hegemony. Liked this
article... http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/statement.html Go Kyle! His
recent Village Voice/Billy Joel article was great too...

"jpehrson2" <jpehrson@...>
At 01:58 AM 1/16/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Someone was mentioning the rather "dry" sound of my electronic
>efforts... and, to a degree, some of this is intentional.
>Even with _Sound Forge_ the reverb, even when light,
>sounds "hokey..." like something extraneous to the piece.
>to "reverb" sounds, but it all seems like something I would just as
>soon leave out, when I go for "precision listening..."

Here are a couple ways I think about reverb. The traditional/obvious: placing
sound within a simulated environment. The second is to color/shape the sound
object. You can do this by setting minimal early reflections and a short reverb
time (under 250ms). These settings in combination with predelay and the mix
level of the reverb can change the sound without placing it deep in a
simulated environment with a "perceptible" reverb tail. I am sure you can
achieve these results with many reverb units or plugins, but I didn't realize
this until I came across the Waves plugins. The Waves plugins give you a great
graphical aid to visualize what you are hearing. You are given a nice red line
that indicates the position of the predelay and the mix level controls
amplitude of this line. By placing it at the apex of the time response graph
you can create some interesting results. You can also apply multiple reverbs as
Jacky mentioned. Instead of different reverbs on different instruments here is
what I like to do: put one coloring/shaping the sound object followed by one
that places it in an environment. My favorite combination now is to color/shape
the sound object, place it with a binaural plugin (check www.spinaudio.com;
they have easy to use _cost effective_ solutions and several bundles just right
for the price; If any thing I highly recommend the 3D Motion Panner plugin for
$80), then place it within a simulated environment with a traditional use of
reverb.

I would like to hear if there are other ways people are using reverb.
As an example of this check out that dance track, ::shudder::. The hihat in
particular along with the synths are using option 2. Option 2 is real effective
as it you have other things in the mix that have a larger reverb signature then
mask out the coloring/shaping you did on other parts. In the case of the dance
track the component that does this is the "analog tweaky" sound, otherwise
known by some as that "Aphex Twiney" sound. ;)

>Use EQ with caution too. This can wreck your final mix. Many times
>what works best is to normalize your tracks to about -.3 dBs then add
>some subtle limiting (like compression, but different), to maximize
>the overall level of the music. Limit with caution, try to have about
>a -.3 to -6peak to average (for example), so as to not flatten out
>your dynamics.

EQ is a really wonderful tool, especially if you have the big toys (analog EQ!
I have yet to try a high end digital EQ). I was able to use the Manley Massive
Passive EQ on that dance track and I must say I was floored at the expressive
and _subtle_ way it could alter/color the sound. I processed everything
through the Manley. I just wished there was a version of the Manley that had
midi control so you could use it dynamically. It made that hihat just cut
through like a surgical knife compared to what I had before the pass. The
Manley is in the $4k range.. : .( <- that is a tear above my frown and not a
mole...

I would recommend against normalization if you can avoid using it. It is better
to record (if you are multitracking) each audio source at full resolution then
adjust the levels down in the mix so that you don't clip your environment as
adding multiple tracks together in a mixer will become larger in total
resolution.

I truly want to hear more and better recordings from this area of music. Here
is my current trick to mastering with the toolset that I own, and I do not
believe it is documented with Nuendo or other native mixing environments. I
learned this by trial and error and empirical investigation. My only warning is
that this is a destructive and irreversible process, so once you do this don't
get it mastered again. With this process as long as you keep a saved copy of
your session you can do what you please later with a remaster, etc.

For the record normalization is destructive as well,
but not in a "musical" direction.

Nuendo and I assume Sonar and other native environments have an internal
resolution of 32 bit float (large amount of headroom above 24/bit resolution of
most A/D converters.) Besides, all the cheap A/D, IE under $1k currently don't
have the resolution that a pro unit does. My Aardvark Q10 and others in its
category, IE the Maudio Delta series, etc. have a dynamic range of about 100db,
full CD resolution is 96db, you do the math are you really getting that extra 8
bits worth, I think not! I am really anticipating the Mytek stereo A/D unit
(A/D only) that is going to be available Q2 this year at $1k; its dynamic range
is 120db; top converters from say dbTechnologies get 127db, they also cost $6k;
but these units are what the pro mixers/mastering engineers are using to get
results; the Cranesong Hedd-192 is also highly recommended; $3k) clipping
occurs at the output gain stage; which in Nuendo is located in the master
effects section. There are 6 slots for plugins before the master gain and 2
afterwards. This means that you _can_ "virtually clip" every channel in the VST
mixer. This also means that it is possible to record all your audio tracks at
full resolution and either combine them at that level or mix up (virtually clip
the channel) or down slightly to create the sound stage that you are trying to
achieve. Volume in a mix is effective as a way of placing something closer or
further away (see mixing article below).

So, you are now going above the 24 bit level of the mix by virtually clipping
channels on the mixer; you _are_ going to clip the output at the master gain
stage unless you do something to get the level below 0db. On the master bus
before the master gain place a limiter. The Waves L1 is recommended as it is
the best software one I have come across. Here are recommended settings I use
in this situation all the time. Keep the threshold at 0db, output level at
-.06; never more than -.03 but this depends on your material. and the release
at .03 to .06. Here is an explanation for all of this. When you virtually clip
you are mixing above 0db. The L1 is effective for 0 to 3.5db of gain reduction
(more than 3.5db and you risk squashed audio, distortion, etc.) to 6db. sitting
at 3.5 is appropriate (for electronic material this is fine; this might not fair
so well for everything). This means that you can virtually clip your mix
"safely" up to +3.5db. The limiter will catch _most_ of the overs and reduce
the gain to .06, but keep the apparent loudness. The reason for having the output
level at .06 is that the limiter will not catch all of the peaks and some will
come through and you don't want those going over 0db; my Aardvark Q10 has a
nice interface that shows when I am clipping. The release is important too as
you want a fast release in this situation otherwise you will color the sound
(more like a compressor; a limiter is an extreme compressor after all). A
larger release than .06 will start coloring the sound. Jacky mentioned some
stats to look at after limiting to see if you pushed it too far. The
one I check is average RMS (which in Nuendo is found in Audio->Statistics: I
try to sit a mix at around -14db average RMS. If you hit -10db average RMS you
are really squashing the material; anything above that is probably distorting
badly or you are running some new top secret prototype of the Waves L3; heaven
help us all!)

Here is the cool thing about native apps like Nuendo even over Pro Tools
(currently; though they should be releasing some big stuff soon; I gather). You
are unable to virtually clip the Pro Tools mixer; your mix between all its
components must not exceed the 24bit resolution of the mixer itself. Also, even
though there is the software L2 for Pro Tools which can get up to 7db of
reduction "safely" since the resolution in Nuendo is 32bit float over 24 bit in
Pro Tools you get that added benefit and processing is better natively. Digi
might have a thing or two to prove with its next roll out and I am curious to
see what they do... 48 bit fixed? 64? That will probably require a change in
the hardware/software and necessitate that all the software is rewritten (who
knows about backward compatibility...)

Another trick with what I have described is to have some sort of monitor before
the L1 on the master bus. Although you will see the gain reduction meter on the
L1 it does not hold maximum levels and is not exact. Try the super stereo
plugin that is available free (shareware) from the fellow below. It will give
you an accurate meter over 0db and also show other useful information such as
phase and give you a visual picture of the sound stage. For a learning
experience put another instance of super stereo after the limiter and watch
what it does to the visual image with and without the limiter engaged and
different output levels on the limiter.

For Cplugs.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/NickWhitehurst/

Here is a great little post from an anonymous, but famous pop mixer in regard
to sound stage.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/recpit/viewtopic.php?t=497
Fun little forum too where anything goes....

Jacky said:
>Liked your tune, even though I'm not that much of a fan of the "4-On-
>The-Floor" drumming style. Great sounds and recording!

Thanks.. I learned an enormous amount on recording with this outing; that is
what I am happy about. In regard to not liking "4 on the floor" style; well it
makes a lot of sense for DJing. It may not sound exciting in a passive
listening environment, but in an active environment it comes to life (and I am
not talking about just making a smooth mix). The form of the parts is simple
and passive, but this leads to a very active and dynamic functional use
mediated by the right hands. It is possible to "go under" and engage oneself in
a stream of consciousness state while DJing especially on a large sound system
and with a crowd who is into it on a separate level. I guess I could explain
this more as I think people often overlook the possibilities with DJing (then
again there are not that many virtuoso DJs out there; and a lot of the culture
is not mature and is starting to really be affected by the mainstream pop
culture syndrome).

>There are people who have spent as much time becoming recording engineers as
you have spent becoming a composer.
I am still in my labor-of-love phase, but I would be glad to work with any of
you on your projects as it gives me a challenge and I will learn a lot by
working to your unique spec. Recently I had the opportunity to master a choral
concert and it was a wonderful challenge and learning experience.

>Use a good pair of loud speakers, and if you want to get really serious about
your mixing, go ahead and spring for a good
set of "near field" monitors. Getting these was one of the best
investments I've made.

Yes, yes, yes... My current El Dorado in this direction will be attaining The
Tannoy System 800a monitors; at some point that is...

A good pair of headphones never hurts either; I love the Sennheiser line; the
pair I have are circumaural so you can have them on and still hear the monitors
through the headphones.

Well, unfortunately my university engagements are getting ahead of me now, so I
must pull on the reins then beat them with a stick. I am actually a gluten for
punishment. I think I am going to stay for 2 quarters beyond my commitment and
take 2 differential equations classes, a digital filters, and DSP course in
the EE department.

I'll pop by around June with something a little more interesting on the
composition/technical angle.

Oh I almost forgot... Check out Guiseppi Mendoza's Scale Browser at:
http://www.mendozadil.freeserve.co.uk/
It displays the contents of the SCALA database neatly. It also converts the DB
to formats readable by some soft synths (Pro-52 and Vaz). If you have a tuning
file format (Infinity/Reaktor, etc.) and would like support added send him the
file and he will probably update the program that day. Reaktor does have a 128
step retuning via the Event Table. From my understanding it is not directly a
tuning specific file, but is a table that is converted to represent a tuning
file when loaded in a certain context. This is all I know. If anyone uses this
drop Guiseppi a note. I don't know if he has been around these parts, but he is
into the microtonal world.

Best regards,
--Mike

PS. here is an interesting little sound file I created while dabbling recently.
In this instance there is a chain of 5 plugins (2 do the most work the others
are icing). The first is set to extreme values and is creating sound from
"no-input". IE I can put this combo in any VST host and create the same sounds
with the sequencer/environment in "stop" mode. I am linearly changing
parameters with the mouse for about 3 minutes. It is not a track, but it amuses
me and I am going to create something larger from this resource. At times it
gives sounds similar to pulsar synthesis/Pulsar Generator of Roads fame.
http://catharsis.egregious.net/tracks/no-input-playing-around.mp3