Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Re: [MMM] Re: New Holocene Music Up

> I mean, would you give away CDs of your music with the jacket and
> liner notes plastered with ads, and would you require your customers
> to possibly join a mailing list about penis enlargement first?
>
> -Carl

I wouldn't give away CDs in the first place. Such an
ecologically-wasteful medium of music distribution. In an age where
music can be recorded on computers, stored on computers, transferred
electronically between computers, listened to on computers, and even
downloaded onto credit-card-sized mini music computers for "on-the-go"
listening...well, manufacturing a bunch of pertro-plastic and paper
packages for what is usually the sole purpose of transferring my music
from my computer to your computer is unconscionable. Especially when
it requires physical labor and physical transportation of components
and products to make this transfer happen (they've gotta send me the
CDs, then I've gotta send the CDs to each individual one of my
listeners). F*** THAT!

And at any rate, given that there are many services on the internet
that often require one to provide an e-mail address to corporations
with "nefarious" purposes, I keep a strictly-junk e-mail account on
hand. Since it's easier for most people to acquire a junk e-mail
address than it is for me to purchase web hosting and (never mind
coding and maintaining a website), I view soundclick as a model of
pragmatism and efficiency.

Consider: I can host as many songs as I'd like, I keep the license, I
could charge for them if I wanted (I could also pay for an ad-free
site if I wanted), my music is entered in a searchable database that
would expose people who otherwise wouldn't find it, I can even assign
pictures and text explanations to the songs. I can do this for no
cost, and anyone with a computer and access to the internet can listen
to and even DOWNLOAD my music at no cost...it's all paid for by
advertisers, whom my savvy listeners are also capable of easily
circumventing with junk e-mail accounts and the free AdBlock plug-in
for the (also free) Mozilla Firefox.

Granted, it would be wonderful to have a private website full of rich
multimedia content with no ads or requisite mailing lists. But until
my artistic vision for such a site becomes so pressing that it
overcomes my pragmatism, I'm sticking with soundclick.

Besides, what guy doesn't want a larger penis, anyway? ;-)

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

At 01:08 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
>> I mean, would you give away CDs of your music with the jacket and
>> liner notes plastered with ads, and would you require your customers
>> to possibly join a mailing list about penis enlargement first?
>>
>> -Carl
>
>I wouldn't give away CDs in the first place. Such an
>ecologically-wasteful medium of music distribution.

Yes, but that's besides the point.

>And at any rate, given that there are many services on the internet
>that often require one to provide an e-mail address to corporations
>with "nefarious" purposes, I keep a strictly-junk e-mail account on
>hand.

As do I.

>Since it's easier for most people to acquire a junk e-mail
>address than it is for me to purchase web hosting and (never mind
>coding and maintaining a website), I view soundclick as a model of
>pragmatism and efficiency.

What about sites like archive.org, or any number of others
that don't suck that have been suggested around here over the
years?

>my music is entered in a searchable database that
>would expose people who otherwise wouldn't find it,

Finally: a feature. Having something on SoundClick doesn't
prevent you from also having it on a less obnoxious site, where
it could attract even more listeners.

>I can even assign
>pictures and text explanations to the songs.

OMG! Pictures AND text?!

-Carl

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Music is a form of theater. To limit its context to a computer is not really ideal. I still have a hard time taking anything i down load seriously. not t o mention the inferior quality. I have never gotten good response from anyone down loading any thing of mine. i could say never. I have gotten the opposite response from my CDs. there is the act of sitting at a computer to more often than not listen to it. something i would rather not do. you have all these things in front of you which i find distracting. There is also the lost of art work which is greatly reduced on a monitor. often this provides an important context for the music. I find it odd that there was so much complaining about CDs replacing vinyl yet MP3 are so much of a downgrade i am surprised even many of the same group is silent. but to each their own. If it works for you, go ahead.

Igliashon Jones wrote:
>
> > I mean, would you give away CDs of your music with the jacket and
> > liner notes plastered with ads, and would you require your customers
> > to possibly join a mailing list about penis enlargement first?
> >
> > -Carl
>
> I wouldn't give away CDs in the first place. Such an
> ecologically-wasteful medium of music distribution. In an age where
> music can be recorded on computers, stored on computers, transferred
> electronically between computers, listened to on computers, and even
> downloaded onto credit-card-sized mini music computers for "on-the-go"
> listening...well, manufacturing a bunch of pertro-plastic and paper
> packages for what is usually the sole purpose of transferring my music
> from my computer to your computer is unconscionable. Especially when
> it requires physical labor and physical transportation of components
> and products to make this transfer happen (they've gotta send me the
> CDs, then I've gotta send the CDs to each individual one of my
> listeners). F*** THAT!
>
> And at any rate, given that there are many services on the internet
> that often require one to provide an e-mail address to corporations
> with "nefarious" purposes, I keep a strictly-junk e-mail account on
> hand. Since it's easier for most people to acquire a junk e-mail
> address than it is for me to purchase web hosting and (never mind
> coding and maintaining a website), I view soundclick as a model of
> pragmatism and efficiency.
>
> Consider: I can host as many songs as I'd like, I keep the license, I
> could charge for them if I wanted (I could also pay for an ad-free
> site if I wanted), my music is entered in a searchable database that
> would expose people who otherwise wouldn't find it, I can even assign
> pictures and text explanations to the songs. I can do this for no
> cost, and anyone with a computer and access to the internet can listen
> to and even DOWNLOAD my music at no cost...it's all paid for by
> advertisers, whom my savvy listeners are also capable of easily
> circumventing with junk e-mail accounts and the free AdBlock plug-in
> for the (also free) Mozilla Firefox.
>
> Granted, it would be wonderful to have a private website full of rich
> multimedia content with no ads or requisite mailing lists. But until
> my artistic vision for such a site becomes so pressing that it
> overcomes my pragmatism, I'm sticking with soundclick.
>
> Besides, what guy doesn't want a larger penis, anyway? ;-)
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Igliashon Jones <igliashon@...>

> >And at any rate, given that there are many services on the internet
> >that often require one to provide an e-mail address to corporations
> >with "nefarious" purposes, I keep a strictly-junk e-mail account on
> >hand.
>
> As do I.

So what's the problem, then?

> What about sites like archive.org, or any number of others
> that don't suck that have been suggested around here over the
> years?

Frankly, I think archive.org sucks. I've actually tried to use it
before and the interface has been nothing but glitchy for me. And
frankly I find it less personalized and less aesthetically appealing
than soundclick. And the interface is far less streamlined.

> Finally: a feature. Having something on SoundClick doesn't
> prevent you from also having it on a less obnoxious site, where
> it could attract even more listeners.

Sure, I could start a MySpace. ;-) I suppose I could start a ZeBOX
page, perhaps someone experienced with the service could advise me
about it? But that is the only feasible/comparable alternative of
which I'm aware.

> OMG! Pictures AND text?!

More than you can do at archive.org.

By the way, Carl, where's YOUR music hosted?

🔗Igliashon Jones <igliashon@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> Music is a form of theater. To limit its context to a computer is not
> really ideal. I still have a hard time taking anything i down load
> seriously. not t o mention the inferior quality.

Perhaps your music is a form of theater; mine is not. With rare
exception, almost nothing I write could feasibly be performed in an
interesting manner. I think music as a recorded medium and music as a
performed medium are two distinctly different arts. And while I'll
admit the quality of mp3s is inferior, it's nothing compared to
cassette tape. And at least it cannot degrade over time.

>I have never gotten
> good response from anyone down loading any thing of mine.
>I have gotten the opposite response from my CDs. there is the act
> of sitting at a computer to more often than not listen to it.

Who says downloaded music must be listened to at a computer? For the
price of maybe 10 CDs, you could buy a portable music player like an
iPod and listen to your downloaded music anywhere you want.

>There is also the lost of art work which is greatly
> reduced on a monitor. often this provides an important context for
>the music.

This is only because we have been culturally conditioned to associate
albums of music with artistic packaging. Frankly, I enjoy the art of
CDs that I buy for about 5 minutes, maybe 10. Then the CD gets ripped
to my computer and tossed in carrying booklet to listen to in my car,
and the packaging gets recycled or maybe stuffed in a drawer. Perhaps
it gives some context in the beginning, but no more than I've ever
gotten from a well-done website. And if we have any environmental
conscience, the massive waste of CD packaging can not be considered
worth the little extra boost of artistic context it gives the music
(IMHO the music should stand on its own anyway...art does not need
music to give it context, why should the converse also not be the case?)

> but to each their own. If it works for
> you, go ahead.

When the environment is concerned, I cannot simply say "to each their
own". This is important. Music that relies on physical media for
distribution is not sustainable, it is not feasibly a part of
mankind's future (among many other things), and given that there are
so many sustainable alternatives available (which if properly used,
minimize the losses of not using CDs or other physical media),
continuing to support this obsolete medium is ethically questionable
(at best). Artistic license should not be a license for environmental
destruction.

Think about it.

> Igliashon Jones wrote:
> >
> > > I mean, would you give away CDs of your music with the jacket and
> > > liner notes plastered with ads, and would you require your customers
> > > to possibly join a mailing list about penis enlargement first?
> > >
> > > -Carl
> >
> > I wouldn't give away CDs in the first place. Such an
> > ecologically-wasteful medium of music distribution. In an age where
> > music can be recorded on computers, stored on computers, transferred
> > electronically between computers, listened to on computers, and even
> > downloaded onto credit-card-sized mini music computers for "on-the-go"
> > listening...well, manufacturing a bunch of pertro-plastic and paper
> > packages for what is usually the sole purpose of transferring my music
> > from my computer to your computer is unconscionable. Especially when
> > it requires physical labor and physical transportation of components
> > and products to make this transfer happen (they've gotta send me the
> > CDs, then I've gotta send the CDs to each individual one of my
> > listeners). F*** THAT!
> >
> > And at any rate, given that there are many services on the internet
> > that often require one to provide an e-mail address to corporations
> > with "nefarious" purposes, I keep a strictly-junk e-mail account on
> > hand. Since it's easier for most people to acquire a junk e-mail
> > address than it is for me to purchase web hosting and (never mind
> > coding and maintaining a website), I view soundclick as a model of
> > pragmatism and efficiency.
> >
> > Consider: I can host as many songs as I'd like, I keep the license, I
> > could charge for them if I wanted (I could also pay for an ad-free
> > site if I wanted), my music is entered in a searchable database that
> > would expose people who otherwise wouldn't find it, I can even assign
> > pictures and text explanations to the songs. I can do this for no
> > cost, and anyone with a computer and access to the internet can listen
> > to and even DOWNLOAD my music at no cost...it's all paid for by
> > advertisers, whom my savvy listeners are also capable of easily
> > circumventing with junk e-mail accounts and the free AdBlock plug-in
> > for the (also free) Mozilla Firefox.
> >
> > Granted, it would be wonderful to have a private website full of rich
> > multimedia content with no ads or requisite mailing lists. But until
> > my artistic vision for such a site becomes so pressing that it
> > overcomes my pragmatism, I'm sticking with soundclick.
> >
> > Besides, what guy doesn't want a larger penis, anyway? ;-)
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
<http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

Igliashon wrote...

>Perhaps your music is a form of theater; mine is not. With rare
>exception, almost nothing I write could feasibly be performed in an
>interesting manner.

I think Kraig was saying, even the act of listening to an mp3
is a kind of performance. In the LP days, you could expect your
listeners to be gathered around the hifi, probably next to a
nice fire. Computers haven't yet reached that spot in our lives.
Why, even a whipper-snapper such as yourself probably doesn't have
a dedicated digital music playing station in their living space.
Or do you?

>Who says downloaded music must be listened to at a computer? For the
>price of maybe 10 CDs, you could buy a portable music player like an
>iPod and listen to your downloaded music anywhere you want.

I may be alone in thinking that iPods, like Walkmen before them,
suck ass (and I work in hardware engineering at Apple). Who wants
to walk around in public with headphones on?? Jogging while
listening to music? Barf, batman.

First time I saw it in action was at college, on the way to and
from class. I was seriously freaked in a Harrison Bergeron sort
of way.

>This is only because we have been culturally conditioned to associate
>albums of music with artistic packaging. Frankly, I enjoy the art of
>CDs that I buy for about 5 minutes, maybe 10. Then the CD gets ripped
>to my computer and tossed in carrying booklet to listen to in my car,
>and the packaging gets recycled or maybe stuffed in a drawer. Perhaps
>it gives some context in the beginning, but no more than I've ever
>gotten from a well-done website. And if we have any environmental
>conscience, the massive waste of CD packaging can not be considered
>worth the little extra boost of artistic context it gives the music
>(IMHO the music should stand on its own anyway...art does not need
>music to give it context, why should the converse also not be the case?)

As a teenager, I wouldn't have traded the hours I spent pouring
over album art and liner notes for anything.

>When the environment is concerned, I cannot simply say "to each their
>own". This is important. Music that relies on physical media for
>distribution is not sustainable, it is not feasibly a part of
>mankind's future (among many other things),

What physical items are part of our future? Of course life on this
planet isn't sustainable, nor is life anywhere in the universe.

>given that there are
>so many sustainable alternatives available (which if properly used,
>minimize the losses of not using CDs or other physical media),

Computers use a fair amount of energy, and generate a lot of
waste. In fact, I've thrown out many more grams of computer
in my life than I have of CD.

>continuing to support this obsolete medium is ethically questionable
>(at best). Artistic license should not be a license for environmental
>destruction.

Is your guitar made of wood or petrochemicals?

Have you ever been to Shenzhen? iPods have left an interesting
mark on the area.

-Carl

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

>> >And at any rate, given that there are many services on the internet
>> >that often require one to provide an e-mail address to corporations
>> >with "nefarious" purposes, I keep a strictly-junk e-mail account on
>> >hand.
>>
>> As do I.
>
>So what's the problem, then?

I've long since given SoundClick my left kidney. I just think
it's stupid, is all.

>> Finally: a feature. Having something on SoundClick doesn't
>> prevent you from also having it on a less obnoxious site, where
>> it could attract even more listeners.
>
>Sure, I could start a MySpace. ;-)

All serious musicians should have one.

>I suppose I could start a ZeBOX
>page,

Please don't.

>By the way, Carl, where's YOUR music hosted?

I used to have some on mp3.com. At some point I think that
made it over to SoundClick, but I don't know where. For now
it's on my hard drive, until I get around to putting it up,
which will be on my own server. I also give away CDs at
burning man. Oh, the petrochemical humanity.

-Carl

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

At 01:23 PM 8/19/2007, you wrote:
>Music is a form of theater. To limit its context to a computer is not
>really ideal. I still have a hard time taking anything i down load
>seriously. not t o mention the inferior quality. I have never gotten
>good response from anyone down loading any thing of mine. i could say
>never. I have gotten the opposite response from my CDs. there is the act
>of sitting at a computer to more often than not listen to it. something
>i would rather not do. you have all these things in front of you which i
>find distracting. There is also the lost of art work which is greatly
>reduced on a monitor. often this provides an important context for the
>music. I find it odd that there was so much complaining about CDs
>replacing vinyl yet MP3 are so much of a downgrade i am surprised even
>many of the same group is silent. but to each their own. If it works for
>you, go ahead.

I've basically stopped listening to music outside my car,
which is unfortunate but perhaps fitting my curmudgeonly
middle-age. My car has only FM and CD. I'm making it a
point that my next car have a hard drive.

At home, I have a nice pair of small powered monitors
connected to my computer, but never any time to listen.
In the living room we have an Apple HiFi that we never use
other than when watching DVDs on the nearby iMac.

I'm somewhat cursed in that I hate CDs and have 2,000 of
them. The very idea of storing them, organizing them,
loading and unloading them from my car, or losing them to
fire or theft makes me cringe. I've long pondered getting
them converted to FLAC, but services to do so still charge
too much (over $1 per CD). So I wait...

-Carl

Re: [MMM] Re: New Holocene Music Up

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Igliashon Jones <igliashon@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Igliashon Jones <igliashon@...>

🔗Igliashon Jones <igliashon@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗plopper6 <billwestfall@...>