New piece: Palimpsest

I have just published a piece called "Palimpsest" at http://mysterybear.net/article/23/palimpsest. Go to the site for "liner notes", MP3 and OGG renderings, and a zip file containing the blue project file and the Csound CSD file generated by blue.

This is a companion piece to the previous one (Owllight), and like Owllight was made with a whole bunch of sine waves, a little reverb, and a cellular automaton (in this case, Wolfram rule 57), but the mood is quite different (meditative rather than spooky). This piece is dedicated to Carter Scholz. Comments are always welcome.

- Dave Seidel
http://mysterybear.net

Dave,

Holy crap.

I thought this was really, really nice. I need to listen again with
better speakers, but the subtleties of the interaction between the
chords was absolutely entrancing.

Well done!

Chris Bryan

On 13/05/07, Dave Seidel <dave@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have just published a piece called "Palimpsest" at
> http://mysterybear.net/article/23/palimpsest. Go to the site for "liner
> notes", MP3 and OGG renderings, and a zip file containing the blue
> project file and the Csound CSD file generated by blue.
>
> This is a companion piece to the previous one (Owllight), and like
> Owllight was made with a whole bunch of sine waves, a little reverb, and
> a cellular automaton (in this case, Wolfram rule 57), but the mood is
> quite different (meditative rather than spooky). This piece is
> dedicated to Carter Scholz. Comments are always welcome.
>
> - Dave Seidel
> http://mysterybear.net
>
>

--
Rop tú mo baile,
a Choimdiu cride:
ní ní nech aile
acht Rí secht nime.

Thanks a lot, Chris! It works pretty well with headphones too. :-)

I'm going to get a chance to play this in a small amphitheater-type space this summer, by the side of a river. I'm not totally sure how well it will work in the open air, but it should be interesting, especially if I can get them to put up four sets of speakers around the audience.

- Dave

c.m.bryan wrote:
> Dave,
> > Holy crap.
> > I thought this was really, really nice. I need to listen again with
> better speakers, but the subtleties of the interaction between the
> chords was absolutely entrancing.
> > Well done!
> > Chris Bryan

On 13/05/07, Dave Seidel <dave@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot, Chris! It works pretty well with headphones too. :-)
>
> I'm going to get a chance to play this in a small amphitheater-type
> space this summer, by the side of a river. I'm not totally sure how
> well it will work in the open air, but it should be interesting,
> especially if I can get them to put up four sets of speakers around the
> audience.
>
> - Dave

I recently discovered Phil Niblock, I found it interesting that he
finds it important for his music to be played loudly on big speakers
in a nice space. This piece reminds me vaguely of that, with nice fat
timbres.

Chris

I love Phill's music, he is a major inspiration. I remember performing in his space as part of Lois V Vierk's ensemble in the 80's, and I contributed to Lois' "Simoom" album on his XI label. La Monte Young (another inspiration) prefers similar performance conditions, at least for his sine-wave installations at the Dream House.

- Dave

c.m.bryan wrote:
> I recently discovered Phil Niblock, I found it interesting that he
> finds it important for his music to be played loudly on big speakers
> in a nice space. This piece reminds me vaguely of that, with nice fat
> timbres.
> > Chris

I have found that just tuned chords have a way of setting up standing waves that can travel quite far and make their presence felt quite far.

Dave Seidel wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot, Chris! It works pretty well with headphones too. :-)
>
> I'm going to get a chance to play this in a small amphitheater-type
> space this summer, by the side of a river. I'm not totally sure how
> well it will work in the open air, but it should be interesting,
> especially if I can get them to put up four sets of speakers around the
> audience.
>
> - Dave
>
> c.m.bryan wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > Holy crap.
> >
> > I thought this was really, really nice. I need to listen again with
> > better speakers, but the subtleties of the interaction between the
> > chords was absolutely entrancing.
> >
> > Well done!
> >
> > Chris Bryan
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Thanks, Kraig, that's encouraging. The performance site is actually at the meeting of two rivers, so perhaps this will be pretty cool. Maybe we should have speakers pointed over the water....

- Dave

Kraig Grady wrote:
> I have found that just tuned chords have a way of setting up standing > waves that can travel quite far and make their presence felt quite far.
>

one thing i have found useful is the separate speakers a wave length of multiple away.
I am surprised more people haven't done this, or at least i don't know of it being done
i often do this in rooms where i will place my vibraphone this distance from the wall.
well my lowest bar representing the fundamental this distance.
i have also placed it at the golden mean with a different result.
i can't verbalize the difference but it is noticeable

Dave Seidel wrote:
>
> Thanks, Kraig, that's encouraging. The performance site is actually at
> the meeting of two rivers, so perhaps this will be pretty cool. Maybe
> we should have speakers pointed over the water....
>
> - Dave
>
> Kraig Grady wrote:
> > I have found that just tuned chords have a way of setting up standing
> > waves that can travel quite far and make their presence felt quite far.
> >
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Great idea, I will definitely consider that. I tune everything to 60Hz, so i should be able to come up with some guidelines that would work with any of my pieces.

The other advantage of tuning to 60Hz and writing harmonically static music is that nearly all of my pieces sound good with La Monte Young's "Tambouras of Pandit Pran Nath" CD. :-) I also listened to Palimpsest simultaneously with one of Pandit Pran Nath's own raga recordings and it was very interesting.

Kraig Grady wrote:
> one thing i have found useful is the separate speakers a wave length of > multiple away.
> I am surprised more people haven't done this, or at least i don't know > of it being done
> i often do this in rooms where i will place my vibraphone this distance > from the wall.
> well my lowest bar representing the fundamental this distance.
> i have also placed it at the golden mean with a different result.
> i can't verbalize the difference but it is noticeable

Dave,

{you wrote...}
>The other advantage of tuning to 60Hz and writing harmonically static music is that nearly all of my pieces sound good ...

... with the 60Hz hum coming out of your standard cheap rental PA system? (I don't know how many times I wish the music matched that inevitable hummmmmm....) :)

Cheers,
Jon

P.S. Nice piece. I should have said that at the top.

Thanks, Jon. Of course, your point is valid. I adopted the 60Hz tuning because of La Monte (who was the one who convinced Pandit Pran Nath to use it), and that was likely one of his reasons. If I ever have a performance opportunity in Europe, I will probably re-render the piece at 50Hz.

- Dave

Jon Szanto wrote:
> Dave,
> > {you wrote...}
>> The other advantage of tuning to 60Hz and writing harmonically static music is that nearly all of my pieces sound good ...
> > ... with the 60Hz hum coming out of your standard cheap rental PA system? (I don't know how many times I wish the music matched that inevitable hummmmmm....) :)
> > Cheers,
> Jon
> > P.S. Nice piece. I should have said that at the top.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Dave Seidel <dave@...> wrote:
>
> I have just published a piece called "Palimpsest" at
> http://mysterybear.net/article/23/palimpsest...

It's great. I wish it was longer though, I've had it cycling in Winamp
for more than an hour and it holds up really well.

You often hear bands in E for this reason also i think cause the hum is apart of both the tonic and dominant chord.
well somewhat close

Dave Seidel wrote:
>
> Thanks, Jon. Of course, your point is valid. I adopted the 60Hz tuning
> because of La Monte (who was the one who convinced Pandit Pran Nath to
> use it), and that was likely one of his reasons. If I ever have a
> performance opportunity in Europe, I will probably re-render the piece
> at 50Hz.
>
> - Dave
>
> Jon Szanto wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > {you wrote...}
> >> The other advantage of tuning to 60Hz and writing harmonically > static music is that nearly all of my pieces sound good ...
> >
> > ... with the 60Hz hum coming out of your standard cheap rental PA > system? (I don't know how many times I wish the music matched that > inevitable hummmmmm....) :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jon
> >
> > P.S. Nice piece. I should have said that at the top.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Jon Calter also tunes his B note with the 60 hz hum. So if his B is 480 hz and it's a 9/8, that make his A = 426.7 (480 * 8/9).

Joe

----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Seidel <dave@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 7:44:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MMM] New piece: Palimpsest

Thanks, Jon. Of course, your point is valid. I adopted the 60Hz tuning

because of La Monte (who was the one who convinced Pandit Pran Nath to

use it), and that was likely one of his reasons. If I ever have a

performance opportunity in Europe, I will probably re-render the piece

at 50Hz.

- Dave

Jon Szanto wrote:

> Dave,

>

> {you wrote...}

>> The other advantage of tuning to 60Hz and writing harmonically static music is that nearly all of my pieces sound good ...

>

> ... with the 60Hz hum coming out of your standard cheap rental PA system? (I don't know how many times I wish the music matched that inevitable hummmmmm.... ) :)

>

> Cheers,

> Jon

>

> P.S. Nice piece. I should have said that at the top.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joe wrote:

>Jon Calter also tunes his B note with the 60 hz hum. So if his B is 480 hz and it's a 9/8, that make his A = 426.7 (480 * 8/9).
>

No big surprise since Jon played with La Monte in the Forever Bad Blues Band.

I do it too. No biggie really...

--

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

I forget who brought him up but i want to thank them.
I have been listening almost continuously to the first 25 transcendental studies.
I find it very important work and on an artistic level shows just what can be done in terms of long term contributions.

One of the most interesting aspects of these pieces is its ability to create very abstract lines and shapes within highly polished sequences of ideas.
It is like kandinsky with constantly forming shapes and lines. or like following the pouring of lines in a Pollack
His harmonies quite invoke many of the coloristic expansions that Satie laid the ground work for.
While not microtonal, there is much of use toward using that type of material in the sense his work highlights greatly what can be done with pitch.
or even how melody can be applied and achieve quite abstract forms without turning its back on it.
It is music that takes great concentration yet involves the articulation of broad strokes
there is a great elegance to these works in using melodic ideas in a way we are not used to.
and so as a composer he quite accomplishes in expanding the musical language in a unique way.
It really is not like any other music i know.
If it has any shortfall it might be in it limited breath of expression. it all lies within a narrow range, but he is constantly digging deeper into it that for me i can quite overlook.

Anyway i greatly appreciate having his work called to my attention
--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Cool, thanks!

- Dave

plopper6 wrote:
> It's great. I wish it was longer though, I've had it cycling in Winamp > for more than an hour and it holds up really well.

I sounds nice. I think in the open space it would be even better.
Milan
> I'm going to get a chance to play this in a small amphitheater-type > space this summer, by the side of a river. I'm not totally sure how > well it will work in the open air, but it should be interesting, > especially if I can get them to put up four sets of speakers around the > audience.
> -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/792 - Release Date: 06/05/07 21:01

Many other ocuntries have a 50 Hz hum. In that case I guess you would tune G or G# to 400 Hz. It seems that Europe is a netural second (10/11) below 440 Hz and the US is a neutral second (12/11) above 440 Hz.

On Sun, 13 May 2007, David Beardsley wrote:

> Joe wrote:
>
>> Jon Calter also tunes his B note with the 60 hz hum. So if his B is 480 hz and it's a 9/8, that make his A = 426.7 (480 * 8/9).
>>
>
> No big surprise since Jon played with La Monte in the Forever Bad Blues
> Band.
>
> I do it too. No biggie really...
>
>
>

Thanks for the writeup, Kraig. I also feel like it was one of the
more promising names to come up recently. My off-list friend
rejected my comparison to Scriabin, saying Sorabji is much "more of
a contrapuntalist" -- more like a "modern Reger, but from India".
He loaned me an all-Sorabji disc by Aaron's J's favorite pianist,
Marc-Andre Hamelin. I should load that up for this week's commute.
-Carl

At 01:56 AM 5/14/2007, you wrote:
>I forget who brought him up but i want to thank them.
> I have been listening almost continuously to the first 25
>transcendental studies.
>I find it very important work and on an artistic level shows just what
>can be done in terms of long term contributions.
>
>One of the most interesting aspects of these pieces is its ability to
>create very abstract lines and shapes within highly polished sequences
>of ideas.
>It is like kandinsky with constantly forming shapes and lines. or like
>following the pouring of lines in a Pollack
> His harmonies quite invoke many of the coloristic expansions that Satie
>laid the ground work for.
> While not microtonal, there is much of use toward using that type of
>material in the sense his work highlights greatly what can be done with
>pitch.
>or even how melody can be applied and achieve quite abstract forms
>without turning its back on it.
> It is music that takes great concentration yet involves the
>articulation of broad strokes
> there is a great elegance to these works in using melodic ideas in a
>way we are not used to.
> and so as a composer he quite accomplishes in expanding the musical
>language in a unique way.
>It really is not like any other music i know.
> If it has any shortfall it might be in it limited breath of
>expression. it all lies within a narrow range, but he is constantly
>digging deeper into it that for me i can quite overlook.
>
>Anyway i greatly appreciate having his work called to my attention
>--
>Kraig Grady
>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
>The Wandering Medicine Show
>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Thanks for the vote of confidence, we will see how it goes.

- Dave

aum wrote:
> I sounds nice. I think in the open space it would be even better.
> Milan
>> I'm going to get a chance to play this in a small amphitheater-type >> space this summer, by the side of a river. I'm not totally sure how >> well it will work in the open air, but it should be interesting, >> especially if I can get them to put up four sets of speakers around the >> audience.
>> > > >

Greetings,

You're welcome. Thank YOU for the very perceptive and very interesting comments. I have not heard these pieces specifically yet and so can't comment on the limitations of expression there. Perhaps these are more introspective pieces. Some of Sorabji's music can also be incredibly violent and harsh -- titanic struggles...

IMO Sorabji is certainly a fascinating composer.

I myself wonder if such a musical style can make use of microtonality...

All best wishes,

Gordon Rumson

On 14-May-07, at 2:56 AM, Kraig Grady wrote:

> I forget who brought him up but i want to thank them.
> I have been listening almost continuously to the first 25
> transcendental studies.
> I find it very important work and on an artistic level shows just what
> can be done in terms of long term contributions.
>
> One of the most interesting aspects of these pieces is its ability to
> create very abstract lines and shapes within highly polished sequences
> of ideas.
> It is like kandinsky with constantly forming shapes and lines. or like
> following the pouring of lines in a Pollack
> His harmonies quite invoke many of the coloristic expansions that > Satie
> laid the ground work for.
> While not microtonal, there is much of use toward using that type of
> material in the sense his work highlights greatly what can be done > with
> pitch.
> or even how melody can be applied and achieve quite abstract forms
> without turning its back on it.
> It is music that takes great concentration yet involves the
> articulation of broad strokes
> there is a great elegance to these works in using melodic ideas in a
> way we are not used to.
> and so as a composer he quite accomplishes in expanding the musical
> language in a unique way.
> It really is not like any other music i know.
> If it has any shortfall it might be in it limited breath of
> expression. it all lies within a narrow range, but he is constantly
> digging deeper into it that for me i can quite overlook.
>
> Anyway i greatly appreciate having his work called to my attention
> --> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/> index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los > Angeles

I have a hard time thinking of him as a countrapuntalist, mainly because i find he is creating so often broad strokes and contours.
Truly he places these against each other.
He uses counterpoint as method or entering a more abstract realm in the sense i do not find my own focus on singular thematic development, even though this is going on.
It is quite impressive to me that the counterpoint is more in the line of the texture that fills in a space, that rises falls , suddenly shifts somewhere else. Kind of like using a very rough roller that has been dried out a bit before it is place on the canvas.
But yes counterpoint is there as a deep link with a history that i don't think conceived to use it in the way he does. I am being highly highly subjective.
But It is always interesting what different people will abstract out of the same phenomenon
Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> Thanks for the writeup, Kraig. I also feel like it was one of the
> more promising names to come up recently. My off-list friend
> rejected my comparison to Scriabin, saying Sorabji is much "more of
> a contrapuntalist" -- more like a "modern Reger, but from India".
> He loaned me an all-Sorabji disc by Aaron's J's favorite pianist,
> Marc-Andre Hamelin. I should load that up for this week's commute.
> -Carl
>
> At 01:56 AM 5/14/2007, you wrote:
> >I forget who brought him up but i want to thank them.
> > I have been listening almost continuously to the first 25
> >transcendental studies.
> >I find it very important work and on an artistic level shows just what
> >can be done in terms of long term contributions.
> >
> >One of the most interesting aspects of these pieces is its ability to
> >create very abstract lines and shapes within highly polished sequences
> >of ideas.
> >It is like kandinsky with constantly forming shapes and lines. or like
> >following the pouring of lines in a Pollack
> > His harmonies quite invoke many of the coloristic expansions that Satie
> >laid the ground work for.
> > While not microtonal, there is much of use toward using that type of
> >material in the sense his work highlights greatly what can be done with
> >pitch.
> >or even how melody can be applied and achieve quite abstract forms
> >without turning its back on it.
> > It is music that takes great concentration yet involves the
> >articulation of broad strokes
> > there is a great elegance to these works in using melodic ideas in a
> >way we are not used to.
> > and so as a composer he quite accomplishes in expanding the musical
> >language in a unique way.
> >It really is not like any other music i know.
> > If it has any shortfall it might be in it limited breath of
> >expression. it all lies within a narrow range, but he is constantly
> >digging deeper into it that for me i can quite overlook.
> >
> >Anyway i greatly appreciate having his work called to my attention
> >--
> >Kraig Grady
> >North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island > <http://anaphoria.com/index.html <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>>
> >The Wandering Medicine Show
> >KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp > <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp>> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

> But It is always interesting what different people will abstract out of
>the same phenomenon

Yup!

-Carl