Comments on Cameleon 5000

I have found Cameleon very useful as it can also model an instrument
from any audio that you feed it with, e.g. sounds produced by
MetaSynth, CSound or other sources,

as well as recorded acoustic instruments.

The after-sales support has always been prompt and helpful for me.

It can run four sounds simultaneously for each instrument and mix
between them in controllable proportions dynamically.

It comes with a reasonable library of sounds and effects which you
can add to.

The microtuning capability seems to work well, and I usually use
Cameleon as an AU plug-in within Logic Pro 7 on G4, G5 and Intel Macs.

You can use a whole orchestra of Cameleon plug-ins on different
tracks; each with a different tuning if necessary.

About fifty LucyTuning values for Cameleon can be downloaded free from:

http://www.lucytune.com/midi_and_keyboard/pitch_bend.html

I used used ana.tun files which seem to work well

The new price discount looks like great value to me.

I paid full price for it a couple of years ago.

I understand that it will also function as a VST plug-in for non-Mac
users.

Charles Lucy lucy@...

----- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -----

For information on LucyTuning go to: http://www.lucytune.com

LucyTuned Lullabies (from around the world):
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

Skype user = lucytune

On 2 May 2007, at 02:11, MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Making Microtonal Music
> Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
>
> 1a.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off From: Gordon Rumson
> 1b.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off From: MDK
> 1c.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off From: Jon Szanto
> 1d.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off From: Rick McGowan
> 1e.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off From: Carl Lumma
> 2a.
> JI afterimage From: Magnus Jonsson
> 2b.
> Re: JI afterimage From: Kraig Grady
> 2c.
> Re: JI afterimage From: Daniel Thompson
> 2d.
> Re: JI afterimage From: Magnus Jonsson
> 2e.
> Re: JI afterimage From: Gene Ward Smith
> 2f.
> Re: JI afterimage From: Magnus Jonsson
> 2g.
> Re: JI afterimage From: Magnus Jonsson
> 3a.
> Re: tina - unit of interval measurement: 8539-edo From: Gene Ward
> Smith
> 4.1.
> Re: greatest living composer From: Gene Ward Smith
> 4.2.
> Re: greatest living composer From: Gene Ward Smith
> 4.3.
> Re: greatest living composer From: Gene Ward Smith
> 4.4.
> Re: greatest living composer From: Kraig Grady
> 4.5.
> Re: greatest living composer From: Carl Lumma
> 5a.
> Re: microtonal piano composition software From: Gene Ward Smith
> 6a.
> Re: Meditation and Variation From: Gene Ward Smith
> 6b.
> Re: Meditation and Variation From: Rozencrantz the Sane
> 6c.
> Re: Meditation and Variation From: daniel_anthony_stearns
> 6d.
> Re: Meditation and Variation From: daniel_anthony_stearns
> 6e.
> Re: Meditation and Variation From: Gene Ward Smith
> 6f.
> Re: Meditation and Variation From: Jon Szanto
> View All Topics | Create New Topic
> Messages
>
> 1a.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off
>
> Posted by: "Gordon Rumson" rumsong@... rumsong
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 7:48 am (PST)
>
> Greetings,
>
> This seems interesting. Can anyone comment on its effectiveness?
>
> Excuse my ignorance, but does .tun support mean microtonal capacity?
> I think so, but would be glad to be corrected.
>
> All best wishes,
>
> Gordon Rumson
>
> On 30-Apr-07, at 11:04 PM, Joe wrote:
>
> > Supports .tun files, additive synthesis, resynthesis, morphing...
> >
> > http://camelaudio.com/news.php?nID=113
> >
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 1b.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off
>
> Posted by: "MDK" mdk@... marvotron2000
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 4:15 pm (PST)
>
> Gordon Rumson wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > This seems interesting. Can anyone comment on its effectiveness?
>
> Its a great synth, definitely worth it at half price. I bought it
> at full price
> and still think its great :)
>
> The one feature i think is missing which would make it better for
> microtonal
> work is that you cant fix a particular tuning and then change the
> preset. The
> tuning is carried with the preset. A bit unfortunate but not a
> disaster.
>
> > Excuse my ignorance, but does .tun support mean microtonal capacity?
>
> Yes, you can generate .tun files from scala. Its not as
> straightforward as it
> could be, but it works. I think there is also a big pack of .tun
> files you can
> get from camel audio. A .tun file just contains a mapping from
> input midi note
> numbers into fractional midi note numbers, also all the .tun files
> I have seen
> have 2 parts where the second is the same mapping but with higher
> precision.
>
> martin.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 1c.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off
>
> Posted by: "Jon Szanto" jszanto@... jonszanto
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 4:28 pm (PST)
>
> Gordon/Martin,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >Yes, you can generate .tun files from scala. Its not as
> straightforward as it
> >could be, but it works.
>
> It's in the docs somewhere, basically you do a "set synth ##" to
> something (can't remember the number - Rick McG?) and then export
> the scale in that format (I *think* it appends .tun). Manuel also
> showed me a swell batch command - type one command on a directory
> that is all .scl files, and it will convert each and everyone
> to .tun in one fell swoop. Or one swell foop, I can't remember
> which it is.
>
> If you ever need that last batch command, let me know, I have it
> written down _somewhere_...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 1d.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off
>
> Posted by: "Rick McGowan" rick@... rick_at_unicode
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 4:47 pm (PST)
>
> > It's in the docs somewhere, basically you do a "set synth ##"
> > to something (can't remember the number - Rick McG?) and then
> > export the scale in that format
>
> In the Edit menu...
>
> Edit -> Options...
>
> Go to the User Options panel. Look for "Synthesizer Tuning Options"
> and
> set it to 112 "Tun format for softsynths..."
>
> Then File menu...
>
> File -> Export synth tuning...
>
> and in the panel that comes up, choose pulldown to save as ".tun"
> file.
> Auto appends the .tun.
>
> Rick
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 1e.
> Re: cameleon 5000 on sale 50% off
>
> Posted by: "Carl Lumma" ekin@... clumma
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 4:57 pm (PST)
>
> Cameleon 5K is an awesome synth. I've used it, and spoken with
> the developer at some length.
>
> -Carl
>
> At 07:47 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:
> >Greetings,
> >
> >This seems interesting. Can anyone comment on its effectiveness?
> >
> >Excuse my ignorance, but does .tun support mean microtonal capacity?
> >I think so, but would be glad to be corrected.
> >
> >All best wishes,
> >
> >Gordon Rumson
> >
> >On 30-Apr-07, at 11:04 PM, Joe wrote:
> >
> >> Supports .tun files, additive synthesis, resynthesis, morphing...
> >>
> >> http://camelaudio.com/news.php?nID=113
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 2a.
> JI afterimage
>
> Posted by: "Magnus Jonsson" magnus@... zealmange
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 11:04 am (PST)
>
>
> I have been dabbling in meantone for a while but now I'm returning
> to a
> just intonation phase (actually extended pythagorean approximating the
> 7-limit and to some extent the 11-limit), and I noticed an interesting
> difference between them:
>
> When I play in just intonation for an hour or so, I have very vivid
> afterimages of the pitches and intervals used. It feels like my
> head is
> full of many music notes at once, like experiencing the JI rational
> grid
> almost directly. This feels very satisfying. I haven't noticed this
> effect
> in any variety of meantone.
>
> Could it be a phenomenon similar to visual afterimages? That JI
> will tend
> to stimulate very specific frequencies in the ear causing them to get
> fatigued?
>
> More interestingly, have you also experienced this?
>
> / Magnus
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (7)
> 2b.
> Re: JI afterimage
>
> Posted by: "Kraig Grady" kraiggrady@... banaphshu
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 3:48 pm (PST)
>
> The lack of ambiguity of the intervals allows for me each pitch to
> define itself in a structure which in turn becomes part of the
> expression.
> When i had worked with the eikosany for 15 years almost daily. Fatigue
> is not anything i have ever experienced, it is just the brain
> processing
> the phenomenon
> of a structure.
> a single pitch could take on a meaning because it would imply the
> whole
> or at least the neighborhood in which it resides.
> JI has as i have tried to point out is not just ( pardon the pun)
> about
> creating just chords or less beating intervals.
> It makes possible structural possibilities of musical meaning that are
> not in any way really possible in 12. In fact i do not think it has
> quite sunk in that there is this every real possible creation of
> musical
> meaning that really has little historical predecessors, except
> conceptionally. True the classical period attempted to use key schemes
> in quite this way and it did work until one ventured to too many keys
> where the ambiguous would undermine this type of comprehension.
>
> This is not to imply that art cannot or should not be ambiguous, it
> ability t o make ambiguity meaningful is one of the ways it surpasses
> science.
> but their are possibilities within an unambiguous tonal universe
> that i
> think we can barely comprehend at least how far the mind can actually
> take it
>
>
> To read Gene's earlier post how extended JI would lead him to a
> realization of a particular EDO, i think reflects
> how the mind will gravitate toward some system that involves melodic
> integrity.
> After all EDO are a particular forms of MOS in fact they are a
> condensation of often many of them.
> That Partch chose to fill out the gaps in the diamond in such a way
> that made melodic integrity possible over adding say 13 limit
> intervals.
> At least to me illustrates that melodic integrity is just as powerful
> as harmonic integrity in actual music making
> I will venture to say i think it is actually more powerful.
>
> Magnus Jonsson wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have been dabbling in meantone for a while but now I'm
> returning to a
> > just intonation phase (actually extended pythagorean
> approximating the
> > 7-limit and to some extent the 11-limit), and I noticed an
> interesting
> > difference between them:
> >
> > When I play in just intonation for an hour or so, I have very vivid
> > afterimages of the pitches and intervals used. It feels like my
> head is
> > full of many music notes at once, like experiencing the JI
> rational grid
> > almost directly. This feels very satisfying. I haven't noticed this
> > effect
> > in any variety of meantone.
> >
> > Could it be a phenomenon similar to visual afterimages? That JI
> will tend
> > to stimulate very specific frequencies in the ear causing them to
> get
> > fatigued?
> >
> > More interestingly, have you also experienced this?
> >
> > / Magnus
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/
> index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los
> Angeles
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (7)
> 2c.
> Re: JI afterimage
>
> Posted by: "Daniel Thompson" microtonaldan@... microtonaldan
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 5:33 pm (PST)
>
> > JI has as i have tried to point out is not just ( pardon the pun)
> about
> > creating just chords or less beating intervals.
> > It makes possible structural possibilities of musical meaning that
> are
> > not in any way really possible in 12...
>
> > This is not to imply that art cannot or should not be ambiguous, it
> > ability t o make ambiguity meaningful is one of the ways it
> surpasses
> > science.
> > but their are possibilities within an unambiguous tonal universe
> that i
> > think we can barely comprehend at least how far the mind can
> actually
> > take it.
>
> Well said. I often think that too much attention is paid to matters of
> practicality or convenience when discussing tuning systems. There are
> fascinating structures in just intonation that are well worth
> studying.
>
> I also enjoy the ambiguity of tempered systems and sometimes prefer
> it,
> but I don't believe that temperaments serve as a replacement of the
> kind of structure that exists in systems of just intonation. Instead,
> they provide different kinds of structure with their own aesthetic
> qualities.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (7)
> 2d.
> Re: JI afterimage
>
> Posted by: "Magnus Jonsson" magnus@... zealmange
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 5:44 pm (PST)
>
> Thanks Kraig for your interesting response. Your points about interval
> ambiguity and melodic integrity especially help to explain how a
> clearer
> mental image can be formed than in meantone which is inherently
> ambigious.
> And it is good to know I can safely work in JI without fearing to
> tire my
> ears :)
>
> I find extended pythagorean works very well for me as shorthand for
> JI and
> also in practice it sounds the same. I use a \ to denote "flat by a
> pyth
> comma" and / to denote "sharp by a pyth comma". I imagine Gene has
> similar
> advantages in his EDO of choice (what EDO is that?) too, especially
> if he
> is modulating a lot. I tend to not stray very far from my initial
> tonic.
>
> /Magnus
>
> On Tue, 1 May 2007, Kraig Grady wrote:
>
> > The lack of ambiguity of the intervals allows for me each pitch to
> > define itself in a structure which in turn becomes part of the
> expression.
> > When i had worked with the eikosany for 15 years almost daily.
> Fatigue
> > is not anything i have ever experienced, it is just the brain
> processing
> > the phenomenon
> > of a structure.
> > a single pitch could take on a meaning because it would imply the
> whole
> > or at least the neighborhood in which it resides.
> > JI has as i have tried to point out is not just ( pardon the pun)
> about
> > creating just chords or less beating intervals.
> > It makes possible structural possibilities of musical meaning
> that are
> > not in any way really possible in 12. In fact i do not think it has
> > quite sunk in that there is this every real possible creation of
> musical
> > meaning that really has little historical predecessors, except
> > conceptionally. True the classical period attempted to use key
> schemes
> > in quite this way and it did work until one ventured to too many
> keys
> > where the ambiguous would undermine this type of comprehension.
> >
> > This is not to imply that art cannot or should not be ambiguous, it
> > ability t o make ambiguity meaningful is one of the ways it
> surpasses
> > science.
> > but their are possibilities within an unambiguous tonal universe
> that i
> > think we can barely comprehend at least how far the mind can
> actually
> > take it
> >
> >
> > To read Gene's earlier post how extended JI would lead him to a
> > realization of a particular EDO, i think reflects
> > how the mind will gravitate toward some system that involves melodic
> > integrity.
> > After all EDO are a particular forms of MOS in fact they are a
> > condensation of often many of them.
> > That Partch chose to fill out the gaps in the diamond in such a way
> > that made melodic integrity possible over adding say 13 limit
> intervals.
> > At least to me illustrates that melodic integrity is just as
> powerful
> > as harmonic integrity in actual music making
> > I will venture to say i think it is actually more powerful.
> >
> > Magnus Jonsson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I have been dabbling in meantone for a while but now I'm
> returning to a
> >> just intonation phase (actually extended pythagorean
> approximating the
> >> 7-limit and to some extent the 11-limit), and I noticed an
> interesting
> >> difference between them:
> >>
> >> When I play in just intonation for an hour or so, I have very vivid
> >> afterimages of the pitches and intervals used. It feels like my
> head is
> >> full of many music notes at once, like experiencing the JI
> rational grid
> >> almost directly. This feels very satisfying. I haven't noticed this
> >> effect
> >> in any variety of meantone.
> >>
> >> Could it be a phenomenon similar to visual afterimages? That JI
> will tend
> >> to stimulate very specific frequencies in the ear causing them
> to get
> >> fatigued?
> >>
> >> More interestingly, have you also experienced this?
> >>
> >> / Magnus
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (7)
> 2e.
> Re: JI afterimage
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 5:56 pm (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Magnus Jonsson <magnus@...>
> wrote:
>
> > I find extended pythagorean works very well for me as shorthand for
> JI and
> > also in practice it sounds the same. I use a \ to denote "flat by a
> pyth
> > comma" and / to denote "sharp by a pyth comma". I imagine Gene has
> similar
> > advantages in his EDO of choice (what EDO is that?) too, especially
> if he
> > is modulating a lot. I tend to not stray very far from my initial
> tonic.
>
> I, notoriously, don't have a tuning system of choice.
> Herman Miller and I like to play the field, him on
> the low end and me on the high end. Your extended
> Pythagorean tuning system will probably in practice
> turn into schismatic or garibaldi (a 7-limit version)
> incidentally.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (7)
> 2f.
> Re: JI afterimage
>
> Posted by: "Magnus Jonsson" magnus@... zealmange
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 6:03 pm (PST)
>
> On Wed, 2 May 2007, Daniel Thompson wrote:
>
> >> but their are possibilities within an unambiguous tonal universe
> > that i
> >> think we can barely comprehend at least how far the mind can
> actually
> >> take it.
> >
> > Well said. I often think that too much attention is paid to
> matters of
> > practicality or convenience when discussing tuning systems. There
> are
> > fascinating structures in just intonation that are well worth
> studying.
>
> Agreed! Even limiting myself to "only" 12 pitches per octave (to
> stay sane
> behind the keyboard) the possibilities are fascinating! 95% of what
> I need
> can be covered by 12 notes. I don't see why JI should be that
> impractical
> these days. Even if a performer can't reproduce it perfectly JI
> provides a
> great framework to think in. And hopefully with that ambiguity gone
> the
> performers will learn quickly to intonate it correctly.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (7)
> 2g.
> Re: JI afterimage
>
> Posted by: "Magnus Jonsson" magnus@... zealmange
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 6:11 pm (PST)
>
> I wasn't aware of garibaldi, thanks. The differences seem subtle. I
> got
> renewed interest in schismatic tunings when I learned and grokked
> how well
> they do in the 7-limit well too.
>
> On Wed, 2 May 2007, Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Magnus Jonsson <magnus@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > I, notoriously, don't have a tuning system of choice.
> > Herman Miller and I like to play the field, him on
> > the low end and me on the high end. Your extended
> > Pythagorean tuning system will probably in practice
> > turn into schismatic or garibaldi (a 7-limit version)
> > incidentally.
> >
> >
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (7)
> 3a.
> Re: tina - unit of interval measurement: 8539-edo
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 11:20 am (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:
>
> > I only posted it here precisely because i believe that
> > this is a very useful *practical* discovery. The act of
> > creating microtonal music frequently involves dealing
> > with cents values or some other logarithmic interval
> > measurement, and my position is that tinas are far better
> > than cents.
>
> There is a practical aspect to using edos, for certain.
> When I wrote something in 13-limit JI that was going to
> be allowed to modulate all over the place, I notated
> it in 6079-et. This had the great practical value that
> I didn't get numerators and denominators growing
> progressively larger, and could simply use integers.
> I could also have used floating point numbers in terms
> of cents, but I found 6079 easier to deal with.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (13)
> 4.1.
> Re: greatest living composer
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 11:31 am (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
> <aaron@...> wrote:
>
> > That leaves out Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Schumann, Ives.
>
> Not really. Schumann wrote an opera, Genoveva, which
> is excellent despite the fact that it hasn't established
> itself in the repertoire. Harnoncourt has a recording
> of it where he makes absurd claims about how much
> better it is than Wagner, in fact.
>
> Some of Bach's secular cantatas are in effect operettas.
> The passions use the style of opera to tell their story,
> and are sometimes staged. One might, I suppose, also
> stage the Brahms secular cantata Rinaldo.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (59)
> 4.2.
> Re: greatest living composer
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 11:41 am (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> > I should listen to his string quartets more. I've listened to
> > his symphonies extensively, and concluded I didn't like them.
>
> What does "extensively" mean? His final twelve London set
> are all top-notch, but he was writing top-notch for a long
> time, and I'm very fond of, eg, Symphony 45, "Farewell",
> which some people would undoubtedly like better than say
> Symphony 99, just because it's not the same style.
>
> > He's also got a very famous trumpet concerto.
>
> He's got a lot of famous stuff. Peter Schickele said
> that people always say his greatest music was in his
> masses, but they never say masses of what. But--masses,
> oratorios, string quartets, symphonies, all are treasure
> troves.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (59)
> 4.3.
> Re: greatest living composer
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 11:45 am (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > i quite enjoy that there are so many greatest living composers!
>
> Why not? You could be one too.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (59)
> 4.4.
> Re: greatest living composer
>
> Posted by: "Kraig Grady" kraiggrady@... banaphshu
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 3:30 pm (PST)
>
> It is something i can only aspire too,
> History is filled with too many who can do things i can not do.
> I think a great composers does something that really can not be
> repeated by others.
> If we listen to Stravinsky version of Tchaikovsky for instance, it is
> amazing of how well he can do that language.
> He even adds to it.
> Still there is a side of meaning of Peter he cannot touch.
> Picasso is a great example of one who took so many of his
> contemporaries
> and left them in the dust, I don't think he did this
> for this reason.
> He was just stimulated by visual stimuli and he took in everything and
> i do not think he would deny the source
>
> If your ear is taking you into a realm where you are hearing in an EDO
> above 6000, I will say this is not a very repeatable act.
> Especially if taken in hindsight.
> This is different than in it being done in a contrived fashion.
>
> Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, Kraig Grady
> <kraiggrady@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > i quite enjoy that there are so many greatest living composers!
> >
> > Why not? You could be one too.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/
> index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los
> Angeles
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (59)
> 4.5.
> Re: greatest living composer
>
> Posted by: "Carl Lumma" ekin@... clumma
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 4:57 pm (PST)
>
> >> That leaves out Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Schumann, Ives.
> >
> >Not really. Schumann wrote an opera, Genoveva, which
> >is excellent despite the fact that it hasn't established
> >itself in the repertoire. Harnoncourt has a recording
> >of it where he makes absurd claims about how much
> >better it is than Wagner, in fact.
> >
> >Some of Bach's secular cantatas are in effect operettas.
> >The passions use the style of opera to tell their story,
> >and are sometimes staged. One might, I suppose, also
> >stage the Brahms secular cantata Rinaldo.
>
> I don't know what makes an opera, but it certainly must
> include Bach's secular cantatas. For purposes of this
> thread, if you have any recordings of at least one
> orchestra piece and one keyboard piece, you're a composer
> in my book. One piece for choir and orchestra, secular
> or not, and one string quartet, would be nice-to-haves.
>
> -Carl
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (59)
> 5a.
> Re: microtonal piano composition software
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 11:49 am (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, sound that <toes@...> wrote:
>
> > i'm open to any suggestions, comments and bashings.
>
> My suggestion is make the scales less limited.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (2)
> 6a.
> Re: Meditation and Variation
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 11:56 am (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> <rozencrantz@...> wrote:
>
> of the Just
> > Bohlen-Pierce scale, quantized to 2182-edo (Studio Factory's tuning
> > resolution)
>
> How in hell did they come up with 2182?? Aside from the
> fact that it sucks, it doesn't have divisibility
> properties which give me any kind of clue:
> 2182 = 2 * 1091.
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 6b.
> Re: Meditation and Variation
>
> Posted by: "Rozencrantz the Sane" rozencrantz@... lmtbl
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 2:14 pm (PST)
>
> That's the second time you've ignored my piece in favor of nitpicking
> about the method. I find it hard to believe that of all of the things
> wrong with it that's the one that bothers you the most.
>
> On 5/1/07, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> > <rozencrantz@...> wrote:
> >
> > of the Just
> > > Bohlen-Pierce scale, quantized to 2182-edo (Studio Factory's
> tuning
> > > resolution)
> >
> > How in hell did they come up with 2182?? Aside from the
> > fact that it sucks, it doesn't have divisibility
> > properties which give me any kind of clue:
> > 2182 = 2 * 1091.
>
> --Tristan
> http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 6c.
> Re: Meditation and Variation
>
> Posted by: "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> daniel_anthony_stearns@... daniel_anthony_stearns
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 2:40 pm (PST)
>
> Or....to quote Leamas in The Spy Who Came in from the Cold
> (substituting "spies" for "microtonalist"):
>
> What the hell do you think spies are? Moral philosophers measuring
> everything they do against the word of God or Karl Marx? They're not!
> They're just a bunch of seedy, squalid bastards like me: drunkards,
> queers, hen-pecked husbands, civil servants playing cowboys and
> Indians to brighten their rotten little lives. Do you think they sit
> like monks in a cell, balancing right against wrong? They're not.
> They're just a bunch of seedy, squalid bastards like me. Little men,
> drunkards, queers, hen-pecked husbands, civil servants playing
> cowboys and Indians to brighten their rotten little lives.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> <rozencrantz@...> wrote:
> >
> > That's the second time you've ignored my piece in favor of
> nitpicking
> > about the method. I find it hard to believe that of all of the
> things
> > wrong with it that's the one that bothers you the most.
> >
> > On 5/1/07, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> > > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> > > <rozencrantz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > of the Just
> > > > Bohlen-Pierce scale, quantized to 2182-edo (Studio Factory's
> tuning
> > > > resolution)
> > >
> > > How in hell did they come up with 2182?? Aside from the
> > > fact that it sucks, it doesn't have divisibility
> > > properties which give me any kind of clue:
> > > 2182 = 2 * 1091.
> >
> > --Tristan
> > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> >
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 6d.
> Re: Meditation and Variation
>
> Posted by: "daniel_anthony_stearns"
> daniel_anthony_stearns@... daniel_anthony_stearns
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 2:47 pm (PST)
>
> believe it.......or, to quote Leamas in The Spy Who Came in from the
> Cold *(substituting spies for microtonalist)
>
> *what the hell do you think spies are? Moral philosophers measuring
> everything they do against the word of God or Karl Marx? They're not!
> They're just a bunch of seedy, squalid bastards like me: drunkards,
> queers, hen-pecked husbands, civil servants playing cowboys and
> Indians to brighten their rotten little lives. Do you think they sit
> like monks in a cell, balancing right against wrong? They're not.
> They're just a bunch of seedy, squalid bastards like me. Little men,
> drunkards, queers, hen-pecked husbands, civil servants playing
> cowboys and Indians to brighten their rotten little lives.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> <rozencrantz@...> wrote:
> >
> > That's the second time you've ignored my piece in favor of
> nitpicking
> > about the method. I find it hard to believe that of all of the
> things
> > wrong with it that's the one that bothers you the most.
> >
> > On 5/1/07, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> > > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> > > <rozencrantz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > of the Just
> > > > Bohlen-Pierce scale, quantized to 2182-edo (Studio Factory's
> tuning
> > > > resolution)
> > >
> > > How in hell did they come up with 2182?? Aside from the
> > > fact that it sucks, it doesn't have divisibility
> > > properties which give me any kind of clue:
> > > 2182 = 2 * 1091.
> >
> > --Tristan
> > http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com
> >
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 6e.
> Re: Meditation and Variation
>
> Posted by: "Gene Ward Smith" genewardsmith@...
> genewardsmith
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 5:45 pm (PST)
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> <rozencrantz@...> wrote:
> >
> > That's the second time you've ignored my piece in favor of
> nitpicking
> > about the method.
>
> That's the second time you've whined because
> before listening to your piece, I commented
> on something in your post. Grow up!
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> 6f.
> Re: Meditation and Variation
>
> Posted by: "Jon Szanto" jszanto@... jonszanto
>
> Tue May 1, 2007 5:59 pm (PST)
>
> Gene,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >That's the second time you've whined because before listening to
> your piece, I commented on something in your post. Grow up!
>
> STFU
>
> Back to top
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (6)
> Recent Activity
> 2
> New Members
> Visit Your Group
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Wedding musician
> Musician resource
> Jazz musicians
> Local musician
> Musician referral
> Lip-Sync?
> Win a guitar & CD!
>
> See Good Charotte
>
> Contest on Bix!
>
> Yahoo! Mail
> Drag & drop
>
> With the all-new
>
> Yahoo! Mail Beta
>
> New business?
> Get new customers.
>
> List your web site
>
> in Yahoo! Search.
>
> Need to Reply?
> Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in
> the Daily Digest.
>
> Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web
> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Members | Calendar
>
> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch
> format to Traditional
> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings,

Can anyone direct me to plans for a monochord that can be built by someone with limited to mediocre wood working skills?

I expect this has been discussed, so I am sorry for any duplication.

All best wishes,

Gordon Rumson

I have a plan for a simple one string cigar box guitar here:
http://doctoroakroot.com/index.html/articles/diddley_bow_2

> Greetings,
>
> Can anyone direct me to plans for a monochord that can be built by
> someone with limited to mediocre wood working skills?
>
> I expect this has been discussed, so I am sorry for any duplication.
>
> All best wishes,
>
> Gordon Rumson
>
>

--
http://DoctorOakroot.com - Rough-edged songs on homemade GIT-tars.

adding to previous:
Bill Colvig braced his with pipe and made the string length one meter. Easier for figuring out things.

Doctor Oakroot wrote:
>
> I have a plan for a simple one string cigar box guitar here:
> http://doctoroakroot.com/index.html/articles/diddley_bow_2 > <http://doctoroakroot.com/index.html/articles/diddley_bow_2>
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Can anyone direct me to plans for a monochord that can be built by
> > someone with limited to mediocre wood working skills?
> >
> > I expect this has been discussed, so I am sorry for any duplication.
> >
> > All best wishes,
> >
> > Gordon Rumson
> >
> >
>
> -- > http://DoctorOakroot.com <http://DoctorOakroot.com> - Rough-edged > songs on homemade GIT-tars.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Hi Gordon,

Although my friend Siem Terpstra is the greatest promoter of building
monochords around, I have a different tack.

If you have, or can find, an old autoharp, remove all but 2 strings and you
have a monochord. You can put math calculations under the strings. You
could even leave 3 strings. I've had mine for 30 years now. I will be bringing
it in to my college class on Monday to start things off.

Good luck!

Johnny Reinhard

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

aren't the strings a bit short- hence less accurate?

Afmmjr@... wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gordon,
>
> Although my friend Siem Terpstra is the greatest promoter of building
> monochords around, I have a different tack.
>
> If you have, or can find, an old autoharp, remove all but 2 strings > and you
> have a monochord. You can put math calculations under the strings. You
> could even leave 3 strings. I've had mine for 30 years now. I will be > bringing
> it in to my college class on Monday to start things off.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Johnny Reinhard
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new > AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

The autoharp yields the 4/1. Kraig, guess it depends on the purpose. If it
was given, I guess I missed it.

;)
J

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings,

Thanks to those who offered ideas on a monochord.

It's not quite what I'm looking for but I think I'll build the Diddleybow (one string cigar box guitar) with my son! So thank you for that! BTW did the Beatles every use anything like that? It would tie in with my son's current interest (he's seven).

I don't have an autoharp and I was hoping to avoid too much expense. Maybe one day I should get one though. Good idea.

There are a couple of sites that have some info, but not as much as I had expected. I guess it's really superseded technology!

Thanks again to all for their advice! Much appreciated!

All best wishes,

Gordon Rumson