Bartok and Messiaen

Carl, you wrote:

"Two composers who probably have the stuff to make the
list but who I could just never crack are Bartok and
Messiaen. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mikrokosmos
and Concerto for orchestra and Allegro Barbaroso and
all that. But I can tell there's more to B's string
quartets than I'm getting out.

Likewise, some of Messiaen's organ stuff is completely
insane. I've seen at least one octatonic fugue that I
thought was beyond belief. He's actually the sort of
front man of a whole school of this insane French organ
stuff involving Durufle and Dupre. Anyway, I can tell
this stuff is top-notch music, having the maximum amount
of spiritual and mental stimulation you can fit into
notes and rests, but I can only extract about 10% of it.
Maybe later in life, when I have some more time to open
up to it..."

Agreed. Bartok and Messiaen are both of them highly underrated. Each
left his imprint on contemporary musical thought, each was devoted to
the pursuit of their visions, and both developed a rich and intensely
individual means of expression.

If we look at Messiaen's students especially we see he is the most influential composer of the 2nd half of the 20th century

J.Smith wrote:
>
>
> Carl, you wrote:
>
> "Two composers who probably have the stuff to make the
> list but who I could just never crack are Bartok and
> Messiaen. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mikrokosmos
> and Concerto for orchestra and Allegro Barbaroso and
> all that. But I can tell there's more to B's string
> quartets than I'm getting out.
>
> Likewise, some of Messiaen's organ stuff is completely
> insane. I've seen at least one octatonic fugue that I
> thought was beyond belief. He's actually the sort of
> front man of a whole school of this insane French organ
> stuff involving Durufle and Dupre. Anyway, I can tell
> this stuff is top-notch music, having the maximum amount
> of spiritual and mental stimulation you can fit into
> notes and rests, but I can only extract about 10% of it.
> Maybe later in life, when I have some more time to open
> up to it..."
>
> Agreed. Bartok and Messiaen are both of them highly underrated. Each
> left his imprint on contemporary musical thought, each was devoted to
> the pursuit of their visions, and both developed a rich and intensely
> individual means of expression.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

At 05:28 PM 4/29/2007, you wrote:
>If we look at Messiaen's students especially we see he is the most
>influential composer of the 2nd half of the 20th century

Looks that way.

-Carl

Kraig Grady wrote:

>If we look at Messiaen's students especially we see he is the most >influential composer of the 2nd half of the 20th century
>

I thought John Cage was the most influential composer of the 2nd half of the 20th century. ;)

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

who has he influenced really out side of rhetoric?
Chance operation? well there was the Cardew and free improv thing through AMM
that i think really is the influence, especially on the whole British thing that took off and spread here
he seems a great composer and quite skilled, but a bit of a philosophical cul-de-sac.

I mean Webern was quite influential, But that seemed like a real forced thing by acedemia
I never crave to hear him, and when i do, never desire to hear it again.

David Beardsley wrote:
>
> Kraig Grady wrote:
>
> >If we look at Messiaen's students especially we see he is the most
> >influential composer of the 2nd half of the 20th century
> >
>
> I thought John Cage was the most influential composer of the 2nd half of
> the 20th century. ;)
>
> -- > * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db <http://biink.com/db>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles