Greatest Living Composer

I suppose by "greatest composer", I mean:

1) Is, or nearly is, a household name.

2) "Experts" (i.e., performers, theorists, musicologists, us, etc.) find something rich and deep in the music, and/or seem to be be able to (and WANT to) write and discuss it endlessly.

3) Normal people like the music, or can learn to in just a few listenings, and don't need to "study" it to get into it.

So, yes, "greatness" includes some banal aspects. It also includes deeper ones.

Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)

**********

Another part of me is happy that it's hard to answer this question. I think it will be a nice time in music history when there aren't any more "Beethovens" around . . .when there isn't a "pyramid" structure, with one or 2 duud/ettes at the top.

For that reason, I like communities like this one, where we are all just making music and sharing it, and it's not some career-boosting ego-fest with one-ups-mans-ship up the wazoo. I mean, sometimes it's a little bit of that here, but compared to academia, it's nothing.

CB

> 1) Is, or nearly is, a household name.
i find this completely counterintuitive. popularity is not sign of greatness.
> 2) "Experts" (i.e., performers, theorists, musicologists, us, etc.) > find
> something rich and deep in the music, and/or seem to be be able to > (and
> WANT to) write and discuss it endlessly.
i guess if you were to have criteria (for the record i'm completely against this kind of thing) this isn't the worst you could have.
> 3) Normal people like the music, or can learn to in just a few
> listenings, and don't need to "study" it to get into it.
normal people are like robots, what moves them is whatever was programmed to move them. not a good gauge for anything valuable.

> So, yes, "greatness" includes some banal aspects. It also includes > deeper
> ones.
...
> Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)
i don't really care very much for either of them, but that is just my particular culture.
> Another part of me is happy that it's hard to answer this question. I
> think it will be a nice time in music history when there aren't any > more
> "Beethovens" around . . .when there isn't a "pyramid" structure, > with one
> or 2 duud/ettes at the top.
timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think we'll ever shake this structure. if there's anything we can do, it is to challenge the idea of music belonging to masters and put it back in the hands of people, by making it ourselves and by encouraging others to make it. not for laud or profit, but for the sake of communing with something ancient and beautiful in order to learn about both the universe and ourselves.
> For that reason, I like communities like this one, where we are all > just
> making music and sharing it, and it's not some career-boosting ego-> fest
> with one-ups-mans-ship up the wazoo. I mean, sometimes it's a > little bit
> of that here, but compared to academia, it's nothing.
here here!

-et-
>
> CB
>
>

(BTW I took the question as just who do you like the most today.
not seriously)
Glad you mentioned Igor and in the same statement as Beethoven cause i really think the comparison is true!
Still a fountain head i get more out of than anyone. It is hard to find a note in his music that imagination hasn't touched.
Admittedly I will say, " i wouldn't have thought of that" sometimes going through his scores. sometimes i will just look at single page.
Even his 'parlor music' i find has something in it.

Christopher Bailey wrote:
>
> I suppose by "greatest composer", I mean:
>
> 1) Is, or nearly is, a household name.
>
> 2) "Experts" (i.e., performers, theorists, musicologists, us, etc.) find
> something rich and deep in the music, and/or seem to be be able to (and
> WANT to) write and discuss it endlessly.
>
> 3) Normal people like the music, or can learn to in just a few
> listenings, and don't need to "study" it to get into it.
>
> So, yes, "greatness" includes some banal aspects. It also includes deeper
> ones.
>
> Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)
>
> **********
>
> Another part of me is happy that it's hard to answer this question. I
> think it will be a nice time in music history when there aren't any more
> "Beethovens" around . . .when there isn't a "pyramid" structure, with one
> or 2 duud/ettes at the top.
>
> For that reason, I like communities like this one, where we are all just
> making music and sharing it, and it's not some career-boosting ego-fest
> with one-ups-mans-ship up the wazoo. I mean, sometimes it's a little bit
> of that here, but compared to academia, it's nothing.
>
> CB
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

most these people did not make music not as a career, at least not in the sense we see now.
which despite all the background chatter is worse than i ever seen it in my life.
In fact people right out of school they seem to go for that first,
not even taken a couple of years to sort it all out and see how things lay.
perhaps the cost has made that an impossibility

And oh the myth of democracy has taken the shape that everyone is equal which originally meant only in rights.

Kurt Vonnegut had a ballet scene in his one tv production where the best dancers had to wear ball and chains and the best looking ones had to have bags over their head.
all in the name of the ideal of equality.
How often i have seen a group of artists that when ever anyone of them manages to get a bigger show, less of them will go to it.
they take turns doing this to each other.

As far as ego , the real ego to watch out for are not personal egos but group egos.
the Nazi's were big on egoless individuals for a higher cause.
the more individualegos there are the less this type of thing can happen

I read this just last night
Ezra Pound quoting in the opening of canto XXXIII

Quincey nov.13 1815
Is that despotism
or absolute power...unlimited sovereignty,
is the same in a majority of a popular assembly,
an aristocratical council, an oligarchical junto,
and a single emperor, equally arbitrary, bloody,
and in every respect diabolical. Where it has resided
has never failed to destroy all records, memorials,
all histories which it did not like, and to corrupt
those it was cunning enough to preserve...........

Ethan Tripp wrote:
>
> >
> timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think we'll
> ever shake this structure. if there's anything we can do, it is to
> challenge the idea of music belonging to masters and put it back in
> the hands of people, by making it ourselves and by encouraging others
> to make it. not for laud or profit, but for the sake of communing
> with something ancient and beautiful in order to learn about both the
> universe and ourselves.
> > For that reason, I like communities like this one, where we are all
> > just
> > making music and sharing it, and it's not some career-boosting ego-
> > fest
> > with one-ups-mans-ship up the wazoo. I mean, sometimes it's a
> > little bit
> > of that here, but compared to academia, it's nothing.
> here here!
>
> -et-
> >
> > CB
> >
> >
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Ethan Tripp wrote:

>> 2 duud/ettes at the top.
>> >>
>timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think we'll >ever shake this structure. >

Who? I think I might of heard of him mentioned on Entertainment Tonight at the mall when I was purchasing sports footware.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbaland

responsible for a lot of the pop hits on the radio today.

-et-

On Apr 27, 2007, at 10:35 AM, David Beardsley wrote:

> Ethan Tripp wrote:
>
> >> 2 duud/ettes at the top.
> >>
> >>
> >timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think we'll
> >ever shake this structure.
> >
>
> Who? I think I might of heard of him mentioned on Entertainment
> Tonight
> at the mall when I was purchasing sports footware.
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>> 2 duud/ettes at the top.
>>
>>timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think we'll
>>ever shake this structure.
>
>Who? I think I might of heard of him mentioned on Entertainment Tonight
>at the mall when I was purchasing sports footware.

You don't know Timbaland, David? Really? What about Dr. Dre?
Missy Elliot?

-Carl

>timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think we'll
>ever shake this structure. if there's anything we can do, it is to
>challenge the idea of music belonging to masters and put it back in
>the hands of people, by making it ourselves and by encouraging others
>to make it. not for laud or profit, but for the sake of communing
>with something ancient and beautiful in order to learn about both the
>universe and ourselves.

As long as audio recording exists, there's no need for composers
to know how to read or write music to market their work. Like
language: 99% happens in speech. But there's a 1% piece that
comes out of the power of the abstraction of writing, which you
loose if you can't write well. And I think that's been lost in
music. Even if there are 100% composers around (and sadly, most
who know how to read and write do not have the full 99% compliment
of the ear stuff), the economic and cultural structure to support
them just doesn't exist.

-Carl

Beethoven and Stravinsky make my all-time list, as do
Bach, Prokofiev, Cowell, Partch, Nancarrow, and Milhaud
to name a few. Cut away, and Bach and Beethoven would
be last to drop off. I dunno who the 3rd would be.

Another personal fav. of mine is Honegger. I for some
reason hesitate to put him on "the list". But he once
said that his greatest living peer was Prokofiev, and
after hearing P's string quartets, I could easily agree.
But then you hear the Rite of Spring, and you have to
scratch your head.

Two composers who probably have the stuff to make the
list but who I could just never crack are Bartok and
Messiaen. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mikrokosmos
and Concerto for orchestra and Allegro Barbaroso and
all that. But I can tell there's more to B's string
quartets than I'm getting out.

Likewise, some of Messiaen's organ stuff is completely
insane. I've seen at least one octatonic fugue that I
thought was beyond belief. He's actually the sort of
front man of a whole school of this insane French organ
stuff involving Durufle and Dupre. Anyway, I can tell
this stuff is top-notch music, having the maximum amount
of spiritual and mental stimulation you can fit into
notes and rests, but I can only extract about 10% of it.
Maybe later in life, when I have some more time to open
up to it...

-Carl

At 07:16 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
>(BTW I took the question as just who do you like the most today.
>not seriously)
> Glad you mentioned Igor and in the same statement as Beethoven cause i
>really think the comparison is true!
>Still a fountain head i get more out of than anyone. It is hard to find
>a note in his music that imagination hasn't touched.
> Admittedly I will say, " i wouldn't have thought of that" sometimes
>going through his scores. sometimes i will just look at single page.
> Even his 'parlor music' i find has something in it.

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>>>2 duud/ettes at the top.
>>>> >>>>
>>>timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think we'll >>>ever shake this structure. >>> >>>
>>Who? I think I might of heard of him mentioned on Entertainment Tonight >>at the mall when I was purchasing sports footware.
>> >>
>
>You don't know Timbaland, David? Really? What about Dr. Dre?
>Missy Elliot?
> >
Just pop culture names. Unlike Steve Reich or Glenn Branca, who ARE composers, they don't even show up on my radar.

Of course I've heard of Timbaland. Have I actually heard his music? Maybe. Should I bother?

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

yeah, that was humor on my part. but if popularity is as important as
we seem to be making it here, they are definitely winning in that
column. with "normal" people anyway. :)

-et-

On Apr 27, 2007, at 1:40 PM, David Beardsley wrote:

> Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> >>>>2 duud/ettes at the top.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>timbaland is the new beethoven unfortunately, and i don't think
> we'll
> >>>ever shake this structure.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Who? I think I might of heard of him mentioned on Entertainment
> Tonight
> >>at the mall when I was purchasing sports footware.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You don't know Timbaland, David? Really? What about Dr. Dre?
> >Missy Elliot?
> >
> >
> Just pop culture names. Unlike Steve Reich or Glenn Branca, who ARE
> composers, they don't even show up on my radar.
>
> Of course I've heard of Timbaland. Have I actually heard his music?
> Maybe. Should I bother?
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * microtonal guitar
> * http://biink.com/db
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Of course I've heard of Timbaland. Have I actually heard his music?
>Maybe. Should I bother?

I think it's interesting to see how these rap producers
have signature sounds. But not *that* interesting. So
probably not. -C.

i like honegger's second symphony.
And prokofiev piano concertos are all amazing. the cadenza in the first mvt of 2nd, which sneaks in and you don't even notice the orchestra has disappeared and the tension keeps building and building for minutes
and when the orchestra finally does come in, well i am not going to tell you. it floors me every single time

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> Beethoven and Stravinsky make my all-time list, as do
> Bach, Prokofiev, Cowell, Partch, Nancarrow, and Milhaud
> to name a few. Cut away, and Bach and Beethoven would
> be last to drop off. I dunno who the 3rd would be.
>
> Another personal fav. of mine is Honegger. I for some
> reason hesitate to put him on "the list". But he once
> said that his greatest living peer was Prokofiev, and
> after hearing P's string quartets, I could easily agree.
> But then you hear the Rite of Spring, and you have to
> scratch your head.
>
> Two composers who probably have the stuff to make the
> list but who I could just never crack are Bartok and
> Messiaen. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mikrokosmos
> and Concerto for orchestra and Allegro Barbaroso and
> all that. But I can tell there's more to B's string
> quartets than I'm getting out.
>
> Likewise, some of Messiaen's organ stuff is completely
> insane. I've seen at least one octatonic fugue that I
> thought was beyond belief. He's actually the sort of
> front man of a whole school of this insane French organ
> stuff involving Durufle and Dupre. Anyway, I can tell
> this stuff is top-notch music, having the maximum amount
> of spiritual and mental stimulation you can fit into
> notes and rests, but I can only extract about 10% of it.
> Maybe later in life, when I have some more time to open
> up to it...
>
> -Carl
>
> At 07:16 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
> >(BTW I took the question as just who do you like the most today.
> >not seriously)
> > Glad you mentioned Igor and in the same statement as Beethoven cause i
> >really think the comparison is true!
> >Still a fountain head i get more out of than anyone. It is hard to find
> >a note in his music that imagination hasn't touched.
> > Admittedly I will say, " i wouldn't have thought of that" sometimes
> >going through his scores. sometimes i will just look at single page.
> > Even his 'parlor music' i find has something in it.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Christopher Bailey wrote:

> Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)

I have a hard time coming up with any living composers who stand out to the degree that Bach, Beethoven, and Stravinsky did in their time. I think it's about as solvable as deciding whether Rock is greater than Paper or Scissors. Yes, Steve Reich and Philip Glass have some great stuff, very innovative, but to pick an example at random, what about someone like Ellen Fullman and her Long String Instrument (tuned in just intonation)? How do you compare styles that are so different?

> Another part of me is happy that it's hard to answer this question. I > think it will be a nice time in music history when there aren't any more > "Beethovens" around . . .when there isn't a "pyramid" structure, with one > or 2 duud/ettes at the top.

Here's a nomination that might seem unusual, but how about Koji Kondo? In his field (video game music) there really isn't anyone who comes close in my opinion. Even with the limited resources of late 80's technology, he managed to create outstanding music. Yes, it's about as far as you can get from "serious" music, but that doesn't make it any less challenging to write well.

> For that reason, I like communities like this one, where we are all just > making music and sharing it, and it's not some career-boosting ego-fest > with one-ups-mans-ship up the wazoo. I mean, sometimes it's a little bit > of that here, but compared to academia, it's nothing.

"Nixon in China" and "Death of Klinghoffer" by Adams are pretty major works.
Haven't seen "Doctor Atomic".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carl Lumma wrote:
> Beethoven and Stravinsky make my all-time list, as do
> Bach, Prokofiev, Cowell, Partch, Nancarrow, and Milhaud
> to name a few. Cut away, and Bach and Beethoven would
> be last to drop off. I dunno who the 3rd would be.

For me it's a toss-up between Bach and Stravinsky. Beethoven is up there somewhere, but I don't know who'd end up as no. 3. Possibly Prokofiev. Also on the list: Debussy, Ravel, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams.... No doubt many others that I'll remember right after I send this!

> Another personal fav. of mine is Honegger. I for some
> reason hesitate to put him on "the list". But he once
> said that his greatest living peer was Prokofiev, and
> after hearing P's string quartets, I could easily agree.
> But then you hear the Rite of Spring, and you have to
> scratch your head.

I very much like "Pacific 231", which I first heard in Isao Tomita's electronic arrangement (but sounds just as amazing in the original orchestral version). I can't think of anything else by Honegger that I've heard, but I'll keep that in mind the next time I look for new CDs.

i thought the conversation was more interesting when it followed the subject
line. thats why i mentioned Adams, others mentioned Reich. I'd love to hear
some other nominations, especially of composers I'm not familiar with,
without having to sift through a debate about Bach and Beethoven
(interesting as that may be in its own right: make another thread "greatest
dead composer")

Dante

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings,

If so, would anyone mentioned Sorabji?

All best wishes,

Gordon Rumson

On 28-Apr-07, at 1:21 PM, Dante Rosati wrote:
> (interesting as that may be in its own right: make another thread > "greatest
> dead composer")

At 08:42 PM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
>Carl Lumma wrote:
>> Beethoven and Stravinsky make my all-time list, as do
>> Bach, Prokofiev, Cowell, Partch, Nancarrow, and Milhaud
>> to name a few. Cut away, and Bach and Beethoven would
>> be last to drop off. I dunno who the 3rd would be.
>
>For me it's a toss-up between Bach and Stravinsky. Beethoven is up there
>somewhere, but I don't know who'd end up as no. 3. Possibly Prokofiev.
>Also on the list: Debussy, Ravel, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams.... No
>doubt many others that I'll remember right after I send this!

I had the hardest time deciding if Shostakovich was great. I
finally decided he was a very good composer, but not a great one.

>> Another personal fav. of mine is Honegger. I for some
>> reason hesitate to put him on "the list". But he once
>> said that his greatest living peer was Prokofiev, and
>> after hearing P's string quartets, I could easily agree.
>> But then you hear the Rite of Spring, and you have to
>> scratch your head.
>
>I very much like "Pacific 231", which I first heard in Isao Tomita's
>electronic arrangement (but sounds just as amazing in the original
>orchestral version). I can't think of anything else by Honegger that
>I've heard, but I'll keep that in mind the next time I look for new CDs.

Pacific 231 rocks, as does the symphonic short "Rugby".
Check it out.
The first thing of his I heard was the Intrada for trumpet
and piano, which I also highly recommend.
Finally, don't miss Prelude, Arioso & Fugue on the name BACH.

These are all short works. When I tried some of his longer
stuff, it started sounding too French for my taste.

If you like Debussy and Honegger, your next stop is Poulenc.

-Carl

At 08:02 PM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
>Christopher Bailey wrote:
>
>> Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)
>
>I have a hard time coming up with any living composers who stand out to
>the degree that Bach, Beethoven, and Stravinsky did in their time. I
>think it's about as solvable as deciding whether Rock is greater than
>Paper or Scissors. Yes, Steve Reich and Philip Glass have some great
>stuff, very innovative, but to pick an example at random, what about
>someone like Ellen Fullman and her Long String Instrument (tuned in just
>intonation)? How do you compare styles that are so different?

Does Ellen write for that, or is it more improv?

>> Another part of me is happy that it's hard to answer this question. I
>> think it will be a nice time in music history when there aren't any more
>> "Beethovens" around . . .when there isn't a "pyramid" structure, with one
>> or 2 duud/ettes at the top.
>
>Here's a nomination that might seem unusual, but how about Koji Kondo?
>In his field (video game music) there really isn't anyone who comes
>close in my opinion. Even with the limited resources of late 80's
>technology, he managed to create outstanding music. Yes, it's about as
>far as you can get from "serious" music, but that doesn't make it any
>less challenging to write well.

Did he start with a tracker or a manuscript? I'm not saying those
who don't use manuscript can't be musical geniuses. But the term
"composer" to me refers to a certain thing. I wish there were a
separate term for people like Thelonious Monk.

-Carl

Carl Lumma wrote:
> At 08:02 PM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
>> Christopher Bailey wrote:
>>
>>> Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)
>> I have a hard time coming up with any living composers who stand out to >> the degree that Bach, Beethoven, and Stravinsky did in their time. I >> think it's about as solvable as deciding whether Rock is greater than >> Paper or Scissors. Yes, Steve Reich and Philip Glass have some great >> stuff, very innovative, but to pick an example at random, what about >> someone like Ellen Fullman and her Long String Instrument (tuned in just >> intonation)? How do you compare styles that are so different?
> > Does Ellen write for that, or is it more improv?

I believe there are parts that are notated and other parts that are improvised. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that with Beethoven and Stravinsky, the type of music they worked with is similar enough to what other composers of the time were writing that you can easily compare them. Modern music is full of experiments going in hundreds of different directions. You can't compare Hans Reichel's daxophone music to anyone else's daxophone music.

As far as someone you can learn from by studying their scores, I haven't seen many recent ones, so I can't say much about that. I do have a copy of Blackwood's microtonal etudes, and it's interesting to follow how the notation works.

>>> Another part of me is happy that it's hard to answer this question. I >>> think it will be a nice time in music history when there aren't any more >>> "Beethovens" around . . .when there isn't a "pyramid" structure, with one >>> or 2 duud/ettes at the top.
>> Here's a nomination that might seem unusual, but how about Koji Kondo? >> In his field (video game music) there really isn't anyone who comes >> close in my opinion. Even with the limited resources of late 80's >> technology, he managed to create outstanding music. Yes, it's about as >> far as you can get from "serious" music, but that doesn't make it any >> less challenging to write well.
> > Did he start with a tracker or a manuscript? I'm not saying those
> who don't use manuscript can't be musical geniuses. But the term
> "composer" to me refers to a certain thing. I wish there were a
> separate term for people like Thelonious Monk.

I wouldn't be surprised if he uses manuscript, but I don't know specifically. I'd argue that working with a MIDI editor is just as much "composition" as writing notes on paper. After all, "composition" really is just a Latin way of saying "putting together". I can see your point that improvisation is a different sort of thing, though.

In other categories of music it's hard to settle on one "greatest", and I'm not sure that that matters all that much anyway. John Williams is an obvious choice for film music, but you could argue for John Barry or Philip Glass. I still listen to and enjoy Danny Elfman's music, though.

I didn't want to add my voice to this rather irrelevant discussion.
But let me just say that this discussion would become both a lot more
interesting and a lot more relevant to the forum if the question were
restricted both to living and microtonal-oriented composers. As it
stands, this discussion ignores both the "Make" and "Micro" aspects of
this forum.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@...>
wrote:

> So, yes, "greatness" includes some banal aspects. It also includes
deeper
> ones.
>
> Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)

They both wrote opera, so they don't count.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Gordon Rumson <rumsong@...>
wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> If so, would anyone mentioned Sorabji?

Not me.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> I had the hardest time deciding if Shostakovich was great. I
> finally decided he was a very good composer, but not a great one.

Ever heard his violin concerto #1, op 99? The Oistrakh and
Chang versions are especially good.

>>>> Thus, Beethoven and Stravinsky would qualify (but they aren't alive.)
>>> I have a hard time coming up with any living composers who stand out to
>>> the degree that Bach, Beethoven, and Stravinsky did in their time. I
>>> think it's about as solvable as deciding whether Rock is greater than
>>> Paper or Scissors. Yes, Steve Reich and Philip Glass have some great
>>> stuff, very innovative, but to pick an example at random, what about
>>> someone like Ellen Fullman and her Long String Instrument (tuned in just
>>> intonation)? How do you compare styles that are so different?
>>
>> Does Ellen write for that, or is it more improv?
>
>I believe there are parts that are notated and other parts that are
>improvised. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that with Beethoven
>and Stravinsky, the type of music they worked with is similar enough to
>what other composers of the time were writing that you can easily
>compare them. Modern music is full of experiments going in hundreds of
>different directions. You can't compare Hans Reichel's daxophone music
>to anyone else's daxophone music.

It's hard enough to compare with rock. Why mention these artists?
Because they market their stuff in the "classical" or "art" music
scenes? Stravinksy was contemporary with jazz; another hard comparison.

>I'd argue that working with a MIDI editor is just as much
>"composition" as writing notes on paper.

So would I. But if you allow these modern tools, you face a
*much* harder comparison. Maybe one still worth making, but I
was trying to restrict the domain to make it easier.

>In other categories of music it's hard to settle on one "greatest", and
>I'm not sure that that matters all that much anyway. John Williams is an
>obvious choice for film music, but you could argue for John Barry or
>Philip Glass. I still listen to and enjoy Danny Elfman's music, though.

I'm a big Elfman fan. Williams has some memorable themes, but
structurally it's the musical equivalent of mayonnaise.

-Carl

>> I had the hardest time deciding if Shostakovich was great. I
>> finally decided he was a very good composer, but not a great one.
>
> Ever heard his violin concerto #1, op 99?

Almost certainly, but I'll go listen again. My favorite piece
of his I know well is by far the Ab major Fugue from the 24 (No. 17).

Shosta has some great moments, but one problem is, he seems to
have bombed more often. Like the SAT (at least when I took it),
productivity counts, but it's probably better to remain silent
than put out a bomb. Now by bomb here, I don't mean a bad piece,
just one that's less than great. Like the symphony #8, or most
of the other 24 fugues.

-Carl

Igliashon Jones wrote:
> I didn't want to add my voice to this rather irrelevant discussion. > But let me just say that this discussion would become both a lot more
> interesting and a lot more relevant to the forum if the question were
> restricted both to living and microtonal-oriented composers. As it
> stands, this discussion ignores both the "Make" and "Micro" aspects of
> this forum. Even in this more limited area, there are too many different styles to compare easily, but Wendy Carlos and Easley Blackwood would be high on the list. I hesitate to mention any other names since most others that I know of are from these lists.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> I'm a big Elfman fan. Williams has some memorable themes, but
> structurally it's the musical equivalent of mayonnaise.

Sometimes it hangs together pretty well. I think if
you listen to it as a tone poem the soundtrack to ET
has more coherence that a lot of tone poems I've heard.\

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> Shosta has some great moments, but one problem is, he seems to
> have bombed more often. Like the SAT (at least when I took it),
> productivity counts, but it's probably better to remain silent
> than put out a bomb. Now by bomb here, I don't mean a bad piece,
> just one that's less than great. Like the symphony #8, or most
> of the other 24 fugues.

Interesting; most critics rate the 8th as one of his greatest.

At 10:16 PM 4/29/2007, you wrote:
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
>> I'm a big Elfman fan. Williams has some memorable themes, but
>> structurally it's the musical equivalent of mayonnaise.
>
>Sometimes it hangs together pretty well. I think if
>you listen to it as a tone poem the soundtrack to ET
>has more coherence that a lot of tone poems I've heard.

I've never heard the ET soundtrack. But I was always a fan
of the tone poem-like qualities of James Horner's score for
The Wrath of Khan.

-Carl

At 03:05 PM 4/28/2007, you wrote:
>more like has anyone ever heard of him...not too many i'd imagine.
>Anyway, i like him and he's kind of a wildly eccentric 20th composer
>of pretty extreme ambitions/machinations. You can check some excerpts
>from his seven hour long piano piece, 100 transcendental Studies here:
>
> http://www.fredrikullen.com/sorabji.htm

That's pretty cool stuff. Reminds me of Scriabin. Anyone else
feel the same?

-Carl

Well i am glad this came up and i am quite taken by these excerpts.
It does sound Russian to me, i will say that much, in the vein of some of the post Shostakovitch composers.
He really stretches ideas in ways i can't really associate with anyone else and does so without losing me in being able to follow it.
It also tends to sticks in the mind

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> At 03:05 PM 4/28/2007, you wrote:
> >more like has anyone ever heard of him...not too many i'd imagine.
> >Anyway, i like him and he's kind of a wildly eccentric 20th composer
> >of pretty extreme ambitions/machinations. You can check some excerpts
> >from his seven hour long piano piece, 100 transcendental Studies here:
> >
> > http://www.fredrikullen.com/sorabji.htm > <http://www.fredrikullen.com/sorabji.htm>
>
> That's pretty cool stuff. Reminds me of Scriabin. Anyone else
> feel the same?
>
> -Carl
>
> -- Kraig Grady
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