greatest living composer

Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the 2oth century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his name.

Come on, Rzewski? Have you heard his recent stuff?

I saw him play out in Pomona in November,
He played two of his compositions totaling may 40 minutes (Duet and Cadenza both from 2003), didn't even take a 5 min break played 'The people united shall never be defeated' and then improvise variation without stopping for another 20.
He is only almost or is 70 .
He has to be one of the most skilled composers i have ever seen. And his music for me is at least of human dimensions and meaning.
At least his music i want to listen to twice or again which has become what i tend to gage these by these days.I have found that i don't have much inclination to listen to Cage or Feldman these days and play Hohvannes more.
It might best be reflected in my taste in poetry , that even though i am reading the entire Cantos of Ezra Pound at the moment, i still get more out of Neruda or Pasolini.
Both what my be called 'civil poets".
Prefer complex idea approached simply than simple ideas done complexly

Harrison i find still more amazing all the time although sadly no longer with us.
I heard his 'Grand Duo' the other night for violin and piano and was blown away at how powerful and counterpuntal his music is, yet within the realm of immediate human meaning.
I have heard only a few pieces of Christopher Rouse i have quite been impressed with but not enough. and he seems to have broken through that American wall of doing stuff that can be both dark and personal.
i have had enough of the dark and impersonal. while music needn't be just emotional, to alienate them is i find misguided
Reich i have not enjoyed since Sextet and barely that. I will say "It's Gonna Rain" and Music for 18 musicians" rank very high with me.
His use of text imitated in sound i find a bad direction for him in that it is a area where he finds himself standing very pale in comparison to Partch.
Still he might be working toward something if he can escape the limelight long enough to pursuit it.

Christopher Bailey wrote:
>
>
> Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the 2oth
> century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his name.
>
> Come on, Rzewski? Have you heard his recent stuff?
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the 2oth
>century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his name.

I don't think I've ever heard anything of his. And ... a household
name? I don't think so. I would be mildly surprised if anyone
winning this title would be a household name.

-Carl

> Harrison i find still more amazing all the time although sadly no
>longer with us.

Whoops... I should have stated that I meant Michael Harrison when
I mentioned minimalists.

Lou Harrison's music I can honestly say I don't think is much good.
And I have several CDs and have heard his works performed live.
Call me a heretic.

-Carl

I read rock people in interviews all the time attempting to associate what they do to him.

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> >Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the 2oth
> >century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his name.
>
> I don't think I've ever heard anything of his. And ... a household
> name? I don't think so. I would be mildly surprised if anyone
> winning this title would be a household name.
>
> -Carl
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

that's why it is good to have such a great variety of music in our time.
To each his own, and my comments are nothing but very subjective.
And a year from now who knows where i will be.
A passing word for George Crumb also who is still alive and written some very important works. A recent of variations on 'Round Midnight' by him is quite up to par.

If i had to pick among the "minimalist' i would pick Reich without a doubt. He has continued to grow and has not settled for what might be the easy for him.
and like i say i am open to where his direction will take him, perhaps he has decided to take on the more difficult problems for himself and like most artists, it takes a while to really get it.

While Glass is not someone who i have never liked really, i will say i have noticed a real progression of his work.
I made it up to 15 minutes before recently before he lost me. There is something there though , under the surface i hope will get there.
If only he would speed it up.
I still entertain the idea of doing the opposite of what he did to 'Beauty and the Beast 'by arranging George Auric music to one of his films :)

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> > Harrison i find still more amazing all the time although sadly no
> >longer with us.
>
> Whoops... I should have stated that I meant Michael Harrison when
> I mentioned minimalists.
>
> Lou Harrison's music I can honestly say I don't think is much good.
> And I have several CDs and have heard his works performed live.
> Call me a heretic.
>
> -Carl
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

that's why it is good to have such a great variety of music in our time.
To each his own, and my comments are nothing but very subjective.
And a year from now who knows where i will be.
A passing word for George Crumb also who is still alive and written some very important works. A recent of variations on 'Round Midnight' by him is quite up to par.

If i had to pick among the "minimalist' i would pick Reich without a doubt. He has continued to grow and has not settled for what might be the easy for him.
and like i say i am open to where his direction will take him, perhaps he has decided to take on the more difficult problems for himself and like most artists, it takes a while to really get it.

While Glass is not someone who i have never liked really, i will say i have noticed a real progression of his work.
I made it up to 15 minutes before recently before he lost me. There is something there though , under the surface i hope will get there.
If only he would speed it up.
I still entertain the idea of doing the opposite of what he did to 'Beauty and the Beast 'by arranging George Auric music to one of his films :)

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> > Harrison i find still more amazing all the time although sadly no
> >longer with us.
>
> Whoops... I should have stated that I meant Michael Harrison when
> I mentioned minimalists.
>
> Lou Harrison's music I can honestly say I don't think is much good.
> And I have several CDs and have heard his works performed live.
> Call me a heretic.
>
> -Carl
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Kraig Grady wrote:

>I read rock people in interviews all the time attempting to associate >what they do to him.
>
>

Yep. And he's a darling of the Bang on a Can crowd.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Kraig Grady wrote:

> Reich i have not enjoyed since Sextet and barely that. I will say "It's >Gonna Rain" and Music for 18 musicians" rank very high with me.
> >
What he said.

> His use of text imitated in sound i find a bad direction for him in >that it is a area where he finds himself standing very pale in >comparison to Partch.
> >
yep.

>Still he might be working toward something if he can escape the >limelight long enough to pursuit it.
>
>

I wish he would be more productive.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the 2oth >>century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his name.
>> >>
>
>I don't think I've ever heard anything of his. And ... a household
>name? I don't think so. I would be mildly surprised if anyone
>winning this title would be a household name.
>
Carl, you've never heard anything by Steve Reich? I'm not a big fan, but I like some of his stuff.
But...nothing by him Carl? Do you live in a hole? He's pretty high profile.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

db,

{you wrote...}
>But...nothing by him Carl? Do you live in a hole? He's pretty high profile.

He's just gone through numerous celebrations of his 70th birthday, on both coasts and in between, multi-day festivals of his works and contributions. Next to John Adams, he is arguably, along with Philip Glass, the most well-known (and possibly influential) American composer working today. How anyone could have been through the last 20+ years without exposing themselves to "Drumming" or "Music for 18 Musicians" is puzzling, at best!

I've got my thoughts on his work, but they are just personal opinions.

A very well written profile of the composer appeared in the New Yorker last November, by Alex Ross. Still online, and a great overview of the past and current Reich:

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/11/13/061113crmu_music

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the
2oth
> century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his
name.

Reich?? Greatest composer? Household name?

Sorry, Chris. I respect his efforts, but minimalism as a compositional
form completely lacks anything to hold my interest as music -- such as
contrast or the dynamic interplay of consonance and dissonance. Three
minutes, let alone more than an hour, of monotonous droning -- however
consonant and however much "microstructure" it may have -- is about all
I can stand without some very serious cannabis reinforcement.

"Zen" musical composition (above and beyond Steve Reich) has very
serious limitations -- and no amount of absurdist theater,
pseudo-philosophy, releasing of butterflies into the audience or
whatever, will alleviate those limitations.

[The opinion expressed above is solely the composer-wannabe's own, and
does not reflect that of the management.]

i think we're getting into dangerously subjective waters here.
what defines a "great composer" and isn't "greatness" if defined by
fame the most banal of achievements?

-et-

On Apr 26, 2007, at 4:28 PM, J.Smith wrote:

>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the
> 2oth
> > century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his
> name.
>
> Reich?? Greatest composer? Household name?
>
> Sorry, Chris. I respect his efforts, but minimalism as a compositional
> form completely lacks anything to hold my interest as music -- such as
> contrast or the dynamic interplay of consonance and dissonance. Three
> minutes, let alone more than an hour, of monotonous droning -- however
> consonant and however much "microstructure" it may have -- is about
> all
> I can stand without some very serious cannabis reinforcement.
>
> "Zen" musical composition (above and beyond Steve Reich) has very
> serious limitations -- and no amount of absurdist theater,
> pseudo-philosophy, releasing of butterflies into the audience or
> whatever, will alleviate those limitations.
>
> [The opinion expressed above is solely the composer-wannabe's own, and
> does not reflect that of the management.]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is all based on opinion on who is the greatest composer......
most people do not know composers, only band names.....
they would say, "Oh yeah, that guy. What song is that? Is he in a
rock band?" I have heard it all before.

One of my favorite composers Glenn Branca. I also like Terry Riley.

Thanks
Joel

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the
2oth
> century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his
name.
>
> Come on, Rzewski? Have you heard his recent stuff?
>

J.Smith wrote:

>Reich?? Greatest composer? Household name?
>
>Sorry, Chris. I respect his efforts, but minimalism as a compositional
>form completely lacks anything to hold my interest as music -- such as
>contrast or the dynamic interplay of consonance and dissonance. Three
>minutes, let alone more than an hour, of monotonous droning -- however
>consonant and however much "microstructure" it may have -- is about all
>I can stand without some very serious cannabis reinforcement.
>
>"Zen" musical composition (above and beyond Steve Reich) has very
>serious limitations -- and no amount of absurdist theater,
>pseudo-philosophy, releasing of butterflies into the audience or
>whatever, will alleviate those limitations.
>
>[The opinion expressed above is solely the composer-wannabe's own, and
>does not reflect that of the management.]
>
Instead is bashing minimalism, why not tell us who you think is the *greatest living composer*.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Gee , i always have this complaint about all the non minimalist!

J.Smith wrote:
>
>
> -- and no amount of absurdist theater,
> pseudo-philosophy, , will alleviate those limitations.
>
> [The opinion expressed above is solely the composer-wannabe's own, and
> does not reflect that of the management.]
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

I see no reason not for any of us not to be subjective, after all i just don't know how to have an objective artistic experience.
i actually find it provides me more about where a person is at, and often someone else might pick out something that provides a different way of looking at it.
So provides also a different aspect of the work itself.
--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Huh?

What do we gain by making such superlatives as "greatest living composer"?

I can understand having a handful of favorites in a pantheon, but how
do we rate "greatest", and by whose criteria? And what are those
criteria? It doesn't work so well (for me, personally) to appply this
thinking to the past--(for example, Mompou's music is as personally
important to me as Beethoven's, even though he applied himself to a
narrow channel of expression, the piano, and wasn't incredibly
prolific)--so I fail to see how I could be enlightened by it now.

Anyway, I think Reich is great, too. "Music for 18 Musicians" is
certainly an iconic masterpiece of minimalism, probably the best
encyclopedia example of 'High Minimalist' style.

I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Adams, Peter Maxwell Davies,
Morton Subotnick, or Louis Andriessen. And while he was alive, Xenakis
was a giant in the pantheon. And what about Bebe Barron? The
soundtrack for 'Forbidden Planet' is utterly terrifying, primal
electronic heaven.

I also love the Dutch electronic composer Raaijmakers. There are just
to many to love for me to single out any one as 'Zeus'

-A.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the
2oth
> century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his name.
>
> Come on, Rzewski? Have you heard his recent stuff?
>

At 12:49 PM 4/26/2007, you wrote:
>db,
>
>{you wrote...}
>>But...nothing by him Carl? Do you live in a hole? He's pretty high profile.
>
>He's just gone through numerous celebrations of his 70th birthday, on
>both coasts and in between, multi-day festivals of his works and
>contributions. Next to John Adams, he is arguably, along with Philip
>Glass, the most well-known (and possibly influential) American
>composer working today.

John Adams is another one. The star of Berkeley, and I lived there
for years before I even heard *of* him. Even though my friend used
to teach his kid piano. I think I did go to his website and listen
a clip, but the only thing I can remember is that I was not impressed.

-Carl

At 11:30 AM 4/26/2007, you wrote:
>Carl Lumma wrote:
>
>>>Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the 2oth
>>>century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his name.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I don't think I've ever heard anything of his. And ... a household
>>name? I don't think so. I would be mildly surprised if anyone
>>winning this title would be a household name.
>>
>Carl, you've never heard anything by Steve Reich? I'm not a big fan, but
>I like some of his stuff.
>But...nothing by him Carl? Do you live in a hole? He's pretty high profile.

I know, while not "household", he's well-known. But if I've heard
something of his, I must have missed it. I feel like I get around
fairly well, but there are holes in my experience and this is one.

-Carl

>Huh?
>
>What do we gain by making such superlatives as "greatest living composer"?

For me it's an interesting question, even if I don't know the
answer. I can tell you who the greatest composer was in the year
1800, but today it's less clear. Is that because there is no
composer so great today, or because we need the lens of history
to see this clearly? Probably a little bit of both.

For me, the answer was somewhat clear a few years ago, when Ligeti
was alive but Bernstein and Nancarrow dead.
Now I don't really know. It looks like Osvaldo Lacerda is
still walking the Earth
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osvaldo_Lacerda
And I think Blackwood and Part deserve a thought.

Looks like Henk Badings passed away in 1987....

>I can understand having a handful of favorites in a pantheon, but how
>do we rate "greatest", and by whose criteria?

Whatever you think makes a great composer.

>Anyway, I think Reich is great, too. "Music for 18 Musicians" is
>certainly an iconic masterpiece of minimalism, probably the best
>encyclopedia example of 'High Minimalist' style.
>
>I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Adams, Peter Maxwell Davies,
>Morton Subotnick, or Louis Andriessen. And while he was alive, Xenakis
>was a giant in the pantheon. And what about Bebe Barron? The
>soundtrack for 'Forbidden Planet' is utterly terrifying, primal
>electronic heaven.
>
>I also love the Dutch electronic composer Raaijmakers. There are just
>to many to love for me to single out any one as 'Zeus'

I was thinking in terms of 'wrote a good deal on manuscript for
acoustic instruments' as a prereq, but others may not see the point
of that distinction.

-Carl

I think this is a silly question, but I like silly questions so I'm
going to jump in.

On 4/26/07, Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...> wrote:
>
> Huh?
>
> What do we gain by making such superlatives as "greatest living composer"?

Validation. If Per Norgard wins, I get "points" because I already
liked him. If Steve Reich wins, I lose "points" because I don't like
most of his work.

> I can understand having a handful of favorites in a pantheon, but how
> do we rate "greatest", and by whose criteria?

Them. The same people who gave us Bach and Shakespeare, both of whom I
find intensely distant and alienating.

> And what are those criteria?

Most popular among program-selectors and endowment-granters.

> Anyway, I think Reich is great, too. "Music for 18 Musicians" is
> certainly an iconic masterpiece of minimalism, probably the best
> encyclopedia example of 'High Minimalist' style.

So now there are high and low minimalisms? I'm drowning in movements!
As much as I adore some Reich (especially "It's Gonna Rain") There is
just as much of his work that I find tedious. Actually, that's true of
most "greatest" artists in any field. It's probably just me.

> And what about Bebe Barron? The
> soundtrack for 'Forbidden Planet' is utterly terrifying, primal
> electronic heaven.

Don't forget Louis. Definitely the pinnacle of pure-electronics.
Speaking of which, Toshimaru Nakamura, Sachiko Matsubara, and Otomo
Yoshihide are all very much alive. But I guess they're all "popular"
composers, so they don't count.

> There are just
> to many to love for me to single out any one as 'Zeus'

Amen. The composers worth following, and the pieces worth repeated
listens, are legion. Moreover, they are all different, that's part of
what makes them great. If everyone sounded like Dumisani Mariare,
well, I wouldn't actually mind all that much, but I'd prefer if they
didn't.

--Tristan
http://dolor-sit-amet.deviantart.com

there is so much music that id good and either you know about it all or most of it or you sit around and actually absorb it!

Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> At 11:30 AM 4/26/2007, you wrote:
> >Carl Lumma wrote:
> >
> >>>Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the > 2oth
> >>>century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his > name.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>I don't think I've ever heard anything of his. And ... a household
> >>name? I don't think so. I would be mildly surprised if anyone
> >>winning this title would be a household name.
> >>
> >Carl, you've never heard anything by Steve Reich? I'm not a big fan, but
> >I like some of his stuff.
> >But...nothing by him Carl? Do you live in a hole? He's pretty high > profile.
>
> I know, while not "household", he's well-known. But if I've heard
> something of his, I must have missed it. I feel like I get around
> fairly well, but there are holes in my experience and this is one.
>
> -Carl
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> db,
>
> {you wrote...}
> > But...nothing by him Carl? Do you live in a hole?
> > He's pretty high profile.
>
> He's just gone through numerous celebrations of his
> 70th birthday, on both coasts and in between, multi-day
> festivals of his works and contributions. Next to John Adams,
> he is arguably, along with Philip Glass, the most well-known
> (and possibly influential) American composer working today.
> How anyone could have been through the last 20+ years
> without exposing themselves to "Drumming" or "Music for
> 18 Musicians" is puzzling, at best!

Good choice of pieces there, Jon!

I saw Reich live a long time ago in New York, around 1981,
when he and Philip Glass were all the rage. I liked the
whole concert, but _Drumming_ just absolutely blew my mind
in a way that no other piece of music ever had or has.

And i fondly remember during my college days, spending
all-nighter sessions copying out scores and parts with
my friend Santiago Perez (an excellent composer from
Cuba who's been living in Spain for a long time now)
at his house in New Jersey. (Those were the days of
actually writing music with a pen and ink.) We'd play
_Music for 18 Musicians_ over and over again all night
long as we toiled. What fun.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Joel" <joelhickman_1999@...>
wrote:

> One of my favorite composers Glenn Branca.

Wow, there's a name i haven't come across in years!
Yes, Glenn Branca *rocks*!!

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

Silly debate. There is no greatest living composer here, unfortunately.
He died long time ago.
J. S. Bach.
Milan

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/776 - Release Date: 25/04/07 12:19

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "J.Smith" <jsmith9624@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the
> 2oth
> > century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his
> name.
>
>
>
>
>
> Reich?? Greatest composer? Household name?
>
> Sorry, Chris. I respect his efforts, but minimalism as a compositional
> form completely lacks anything to hold my interest as music -- such as
> contrast or the dynamic interplay of consonance and dissonance. Three
> minutes, let alone more than an hour, of monotonous droning -- however
> consonant and however much "microstructure" it may have -- is about all
> I can stand without some very serious cannabis reinforcement.
>
> "Zen" musical composition (above and beyond Steve Reich) has very
> serious limitations -- and no amount of absurdist theater,
> pseudo-philosophy, releasing of butterflies into the audience or
> whatever, will alleviate those limitations.

Disregarding the surely large amount of 'pseudo-composition' out there
(I agree with you that there is a lot of it), and assuming we are
talking about the best minimalist or non-Western tinged music---to
judge or listen to it according to 19th century "Sonata form is king,
linear development is the only-way" standards is too really miss the
point (and beauty) of these other newer (and not so newer, in the case
of a lot of non-Western musics) musics entirely.

And what about Western Strophic form? Is *that* monotonous?

-A.

I think it's a misleading/misguided question because it is an
impossible question, which also begs the question.

Plus, we then implicitely relate 'fame' to 'greatness' which would
leave out any current J.S. Bachs. And then---is incredible
prolificness the biggest criteria? Why? What about an artist who wrote
a few smaller works in one special medium? Is Chopin the lesser
composer than Brahms for concentrating on the piano? And what about
sentimental attachment? As much as I love Bach, I certainly wouldn't
say he's the composer who warms my inner, 'personal soul' as much as
say Chopin, Mompou, Debussy. And then you have music that doesn't
'compete' in the same way---an electronic guru like Subotnick totally
blows my miind, but in a very different way and from very different
premises than anyone in the common practice tradition.

I see all sorts of problems with looking at the world of music in this
"Olympics competition" way.

-A.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> >Huh?
> >
> >What do we gain by making such superlatives as "greatest living
composer"?
>
> For me it's an interesting question, even if I don't know the
> answer. I can tell you who the greatest composer was in the year
> 1800, but today it's less clear. Is that because there is no
> composer so great today, or because we need the lens of history
> to see this clearly? Probably a little bit of both.
>
> For me, the answer was somewhat clear a few years ago, when Ligeti
> was alive but Bernstein and Nancarrow dead.
> Now I don't really know. It looks like Osvaldo Lacerda is
> still walking the Earth
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osvaldo_Lacerda
> And I think Blackwood and Part deserve a thought.
>
> Looks like Henk Badings passed away in 1987....
>
> >I can understand having a handful of favorites in a pantheon, but how
> >do we rate "greatest", and by whose criteria?
>
> Whatever you think makes a great composer.
>
> >Anyway, I think Reich is great, too. "Music for 18 Musicians" is
> >certainly an iconic masterpiece of minimalism, probably the best
> >encyclopedia example of 'High Minimalist' style.
> >
> >I'm also surprised no one has mentioned Adams, Peter Maxwell Davies,
> >Morton Subotnick, or Louis Andriessen. And while he was alive, Xenakis
> >was a giant in the pantheon. And what about Bebe Barron? The
> >soundtrack for 'Forbidden Planet' is utterly terrifying, primal
> >electronic heaven.
> >
> >I also love the Dutch electronic composer Raaijmakers. There are just
> >to many to love for me to single out any one as 'Zeus'
>
> I was thinking in terms of 'wrote a good deal on manuscript for
> acoustic instruments' as a prereq, but others may not see the point
> of that distinction.
>
> -Carl
>

One more thought---whoever, as far as I'm concerned, wins the title of
'Greatest Living Composer' would have to have shown the world immense
taste, and therefore could not have written an opera or musical.

-A.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "J.Smith" <jsmith9624@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve Reich is one of the greatest composers of the 2nd-half of the
> > 2oth
> > > century, and is (nearly) a household name, yet no one mentions his
> > name.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Reich?? Greatest composer? Household name?
> >
> > Sorry, Chris. I respect his efforts, but minimalism as a compositional
> > form completely lacks anything to hold my interest as music -- such as
> > contrast or the dynamic interplay of consonance and dissonance. Three
> > minutes, let alone more than an hour, of monotonous droning -- however
> > consonant and however much "microstructure" it may have -- is
about all
> > I can stand without some very serious cannabis reinforcement.
> >
> > "Zen" musical composition (above and beyond Steve Reich) has very
> > serious limitations -- and no amount of absurdist theater,
> > pseudo-philosophy, releasing of butterflies into the audience or
> > whatever, will alleviate those limitations.
>
> Disregarding the surely large amount of 'pseudo-composition' out there
> (I agree with you that there is a lot of it), and assuming we are
> talking about the best minimalist or non-Western tinged music---to
> judge or listen to it according to 19th century "Sonata form is king,
> linear development is the only-way" standards is too really miss the
> point (and beauty) of these other newer (and not so newer, in the case
> of a lot of non-Western musics) musics entirely.
>
> And what about Western Strophic form? Is *that* monotonous?
>
> -A.
>

oh he doesn't count , as lou harrison said he has been made a saint. Saint Ba...
he is a bit formulaic too.
theme, cycle of 2 or 3,fifths, theme comes in again, just about every time.
i like it best on pipe organ live in a church It sounds better when you can't here it all separated into different lines :)
pure insane texture!
Vivaldi is less predictable. listen to his La Stravaganza.
Gamelan is just as counterpuntal at times and there you don't have to wait for the theme to come back cause all the variations are happening the first time through right on top of each other

aum wrote:
>
> Silly debate. There is no greatest living composer here, unfortunately.
> He died long time ago.
> J. S. Bach.
> Milan
>
> -- > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/776 - Release Date: > 25/04/07 12:19
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

i could listen to endless gamelan. such an immediate listening
experience. not to mention beautiful.

-et-

On Apr 27, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Kraig Grady wrote:

> oh he doesn't count , as lou harrison said he has been made a saint.
> Saint Ba...
> he is a bit formulaic too.
> theme, cycle of 2 or 3,fifths, theme comes in again, just about every
> time.
> i like it best on pipe organ live in a church It sounds better when
> you can't here it all separated into different lines :)
> pure insane texture!
> Vivaldi is less predictable. listen to his La Stravaganza.
> Gamelan is just as counterpuntal at times and there you don't have to
> wait for the theme to come back cause all the variations are happening
> the first time through right on top of each other
>
> aum wrote:
> >
> > Silly debate. There is no greatest living composer here,
> unfortunately.
> > He died long time ago.
> > J. S. Bach.
> > Milan
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.463 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/776 - Release Date:
> > 25/04/07 12:19
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/
> index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los
> Angeles
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AKJ wrote:

> ...whoever, as far as I'm concerned, wins
> the title of 'Greatest Living Composer' would have to have
> shown the world immense taste, and therefore could not have
> written an opera or musical.

Are you kidding? Any candidate for the title *must* have written some
operas...! :-) Nothing else really shows off the compositional muscles like
a good opera.

Rick

At 07:05 AM 4/27/2007, you wrote:
>oh he doesn't count , as lou harrison said he has been made a saint.
>Saint Ba...
>he is a bit formulaic too.
> theme, cycle of 2 or 3,fifths, theme comes in again, just about every
>time.
> i like it best on pipe organ live in a church It sounds better when
>you can't here it all separated into different lines :)
>pure insane texture!
>Vivaldi is less predictable. listen to his La Stravaganza.

I went out and got that based on your recommendation, but I can't
say I find it less predictable than Bach. Sure, he follows the
standard baroque chord progression, but the devil is in the
counterpoint. Especially the fugues. I agree with you about
the organ - Bach was first and foremost an organ composer, and
his organ works are some of the most adventurous ever written,
and there he *does* get away from the formula. Also, if you hear
something like the Mass in B min live... he proves he really
understood woodwinds and chorus.

>Gamelan is just as counterpuntal at times and there you don't have to
>wait for the theme to come back cause all the variations are happening
>the first time through right on top of each other

I do love gamelan.

-Carl

>I think it's a misleading/misguided question because it is an
>impossible question,

It's not impossible, just subjective. As Kraig points out,
what's wrong with that? If you don't know who your greatest
living composer is, then you're like me. If Beethoven were
exhumed I'm sure there wouldn't be any doubt in my mind.

>Plus, we then implicitely relate 'fame' to 'greatness' which would
>leave out any current J.S. Bachs.

Bach was well-known in his time, held prominent positions and
had audience with big patrons. I've mentioned composers less
well known in this thread.

>And then---is incredible prolificness the biggest criteria?

Not for me, but it is a factor.

>Is Chopin the lesser
>composer than Brahms for concentrating on the piano?

A little bit, yes.

>an electronic guru like Subotnick totally
>blows my miind, but in a very different way and from very different
>premises than anyone in the common practice tradition.

I like Subotnick.

>I see all sorts of problems with looking at the world of music in
>this "Olympics competition" way.

I think it's fun.

-Carl

monz wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Joel" <joelhickman_1999@...>
>wrote:
>
> >
>>One of my favorite composers Glenn Branca.
>> >>
>
>
>Wow, there's a name i haven't come across in years!
>Yes, Glenn Branca *rocks*!!
>

4 microtonal/Just "symphonies", three of 'em on CD.

http://www.glennbranca.com/

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, aum <aum@...> wrote:
>
> Silly debate. There is no greatest living composer
> here, unfortunately.
> He died long time ago.
> J. S. Bach.
> Milan

Depending on how literally you take "Mahler lives" to be,
that's who gets my vote. (but you all already knew that)

-monz

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@...> wrote:
>
> monz wrote:
>
> >--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Joel" <joelhickman_1999@>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > One of my favorite composers Glenn Branca.
> >
> >
> > Wow, there's a name i haven't come across in years!
> > Yes, Glenn Branca *rocks*!!
> >
>
> 4 microtonal/Just "symphonies", three of 'em on CD.
>
> http://www.glennbranca.com/

And his symphonies are for orchestras made entirely
of electric guitars! Ya gotta love it.

-monz

monz wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, aum <aum@...> wrote:
> >
>>Silly debate. There is no greatest living composer
>>here, unfortunately.
>>He died long time ago.
>>J. S. Bach.
>>Milan
>> >>
>
>
>Depending on how literally you take "Mahler lives" to be,
>that's who gets my vote. (but you all already knew that)
>

What's he up to these days anyway...

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> I know, while not "household", he's well-known. But if I've heard
> something of his, I must have missed it. I feel like I get around
> fairly well, but there are holes in my experience and this is one.

You probably just fell asleep and woke up when it
was over.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> For me it's an interesting question, even if I don't know the
> answer. I can tell you who the greatest composer was in the year
> 1800, but today it's less clear.

You can? It's not at all clear: the great Haydn, or
the up and coming Beethoven, his student, who has
just premired his impressive first symphony.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:

> And then you have music that doesn't
> 'compete' in the same way---an electronic guru like Subotnick totally
> blows my miind, but in a very different way and from very different
> premises than anyone in the common practice tradition.

He's definately got something, because I really,
really loathe his music, and that means I'm not
ignoring it.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> One more thought---whoever, as far as I'm concerned, wins the title of
> 'Greatest Living Composer' would have to have shown the world immense
> taste, and therefore could not have written an opera or musical.

Towards the end of his life, I think Bernstein was
arguably the greatest living composer. And while
Paul Bunyan is not exactly a music, Britten could
make the same claim.

When you look at it, sad to relate, most of the
20th centey greats wrote at least one opera. Who's
the greatest composer of the 20th century who never
did, I wonder?

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Rick McGowan <rick@...> wrote:

> Are you kidding? Any candidate for the title *must* have written
some
> operas...! :-) Nothing else really shows off the compositional
muscles like
> a good opera.

Operas under another name, such as Bach or Elgar,
work about the same. And sometimes, as with Handel,
Haydn or Mendelssohn, they may work even better than
their actual operas.

At 05:00 PM 4/29/2007, you wrote:
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
>> For me it's an interesting question, even if I don't know the
>> answer. I can tell you who the greatest composer was in the year
>> 1800, but today it's less clear.
>
>You can? It's not at all clear: the great Haydn, or
>the up and coming Beethoven, his student, who has
>just premired his impressive first symphony.

Haydn sucks man. :)

-Carl

>> One more thought---whoever, as far as I'm concerned, wins the title of
>> 'Greatest Living Composer' would have to have shown the world immense
>> taste, and therefore could not have written an opera or musical.
>
>Towards the end of his life, I think Bernstein was
>arguably the greatest living composer.

I can buy that.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Rick McGowan <rick@...> wrote:
>
> AKJ wrote:
>
> > ...whoever, as far as I'm concerned, wins
> > the title of 'Greatest Living Composer' would have to have
> > shown the world immense taste, and therefore could not have
> > written an opera or musical.
>
> Are you kidding? Any candidate for the title *must* have written some
> operas...! :-) Nothing else really shows off the compositional
muscles like
> a good opera.

That leaves out Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Schumann, Ives. Not to mention
the entire pre-Monteverdi Renaissance, which is some of the best
western music around.

Never mind me..I just really don't care for opera, or at least the way
99% of it is performed and interpreted by all the barking and
screeching singers these days.

I was a vocal coach at NU for some 10 years or so. A good singer is a
fine thing, but rarer than a snowball in equatorial Guinea. By good
singer, I mean one who can really control the piggish vibrato we hear
so much, and can sing accurate rhythms without dragging. Also, one who
can resist the temptation to put a fermata on any notes higher than
the inside of the staff in whatever clef they sing in.

I think pound for pound the average choral singer who knows how to
blend well and is a great team player is 1000 times the musician of
you typical operatic soloist.

But, this is all way off topic, so I'm going now...

-A.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> At 05:00 PM 4/29/2007, you wrote:
> >--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@> wrote:
> >
> >> For me it's an interesting question, even if I don't know the
> >> answer. I can tell you who the greatest composer was in the year
> >> 1800, but today it's less clear.
> >
> >You can? It's not at all clear: the great Haydn, or
> >the up and coming Beethoven, his student, who has
> >just premired his impressive first symphony.
>
> Haydn sucks man. :)

You are trolling. I bet you can't list on one hand's fingers the works
you thoroughly have absorbed and understood by him, let alone heard.

For inventing the string quartet alone, and writing so many
masterpieces in that genre, he is to be put in the pantheon. And he
really does make Beethoven---the drama, depth, adventurousness, and
humor---possible.

>> >> For me it's an interesting question, even if I don't know the
>> >> answer. I can tell you who the greatest composer was in the year
>> >> 1800, but today it's less clear.
>> >
>> >You can? It's not at all clear: the great Haydn, or
>> >the up and coming Beethoven, his student, who has
>> >just premired his impressive first symphony.
>>
>> Haydn sucks man. :)
>
>You are trolling. I bet you can't list on one hand's fingers the works
>you thoroughly have absorbed and understood by him, let alone heard.

I don't have enough fingers.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> >> Haydn sucks man. :)
> >
> >You are trolling. I bet you can't list on one hand's fingers the works
> >you thoroughly have absorbed and understood by him, let alone heard.
>
> I don't have enough fingers.

Well, I still think you are being subversive for the sake of it. If
Haydn sucks, so should the entire Classical period. I guess for some
it does, but what can I say to them? :)

Speaking for myself, I admire Haydn's transparency, and the sense of
humor which at times is poignant. In particular, his symphonies and
quartets are peak. Even if you choose not to enjoy listening to him,
you have to grant his historical importance in these forms, and being
a huge figure in the early 'Sturm und Drang' movement.

Humor in music is so under-appreciated. I'm not talking about
sophmoric humor, like Frank Zappa, but playfulness and wit, like Haydn
and Beethoven.

AKJ wrote...

> > Are you kidding? Any candidate for the title *must* have written some
> > operas...! :-) Nothing else really shows off the compositional
> > muscles like a good opera.
>
> That leaves out Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Schumann, Ives. Not to mention
> the entire pre-Monteverdi Renaissance, which is some of the best
> western music around.

But we're not talking about Bach or pre-Monteverdi, we're talking about
2007. :-)

Rick

>> >> Haydn sucks man. :)
>> >
>> >You are trolling. I bet you can't list on one hand's fingers the works
>> >you thoroughly have absorbed and understood by him, let alone heard.
>>
>> I don't have enough fingers.
>
>Well, I still think you are being subversive for the sake of it. If
>Haydn sucks, so should the entire Classical period. I guess for some
>it does, but what can I say to them? :)

The classical period is a pretty boring 50 years if you ask me.

>Speaking for myself, I admire Haydn's transparency, and the sense of
>humor which at times is poignant. In particular, his symphonies and
>quartets are peak. Even if you choose not to enjoy listening to him,
>you have to grant his historical importance in these forms, and being
>a huge figure in the early 'Sturm und Drang' movement.

I should listen to his string quartets more. I've listened to
his symphonies extensively, and concluded I didn't like them.
He's also got a very famous trumpet concerto.

-Carl

...is whoever wrote the music to "Don't Cha" by the Pussycat Dolls.
That person is the Greatest Living Composer.

I think it's a tie between Q*ball ('Fortune Favors the Bald') and Mourning Widows ('Sex in a Jar').

Joe

----- Original Message ----
From: paolovalladolid <phv40@...>
To: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:37:16 PM
Subject: [MMM] Re: greatest living composer

...is whoever wrote the music to "Don't Cha" by the Pussycat Dolls.
That person is the Greatest Living Composer.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i quite enjoy that there are so many greatest living composers!

paolovalladolid wrote:
>
> ...is whoever wrote the music to "Don't Cha" by the Pussycat Dolls.
> That person is the Greatest Living Composer.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:

> That leaves out Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Schumann, Ives.

Not really. Schumann wrote an opera, Genoveva, which
is excellent despite the fact that it hasn't established
itself in the repertoire. Harnoncourt has a recording
of it where he makes absurd claims about how much
better it is than Wagner, in fact.

Some of Bach's secular cantatas are in effect operettas.
The passions use the style of opera to tell their story,
and are sometimes staged. One might, I suppose, also
stage the Brahms secular cantata Rinaldo.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> I should listen to his string quartets more. I've listened to
> his symphonies extensively, and concluded I didn't like them.

What does "extensively" mean? His final twelve London set
are all top-notch, but he was writing top-notch for a long
time, and I'm very fond of, eg, Symphony 45, "Farewell",
which some people would undoubtedly like better than say
Symphony 99, just because it's not the same style.

> He's also got a very famous trumpet concerto.

He's got a lot of famous stuff. Peter Schickele said
that people always say his greatest music was in his
masses, but they never say masses of what. But--masses,
oratorios, string quartets, symphonies, all are treasure
troves.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
wrote:
>
> i quite enjoy that there are so many greatest living composers!

Why not? You could be one too.

It is something i can only aspire too,
History is filled with too many who can do things i can not do.
I think a great composers does something that really can not be repeated by others.
If we listen to Stravinsky version of Tchaikovsky for instance, it is amazing of how well he can do that language.
He even adds to it.
Still there is a side of meaning of Peter he cannot touch.
Picasso is a great example of one who took so many of his contemporaries and left them in the dust, I don't think he did this
for this reason.
He was just stimulated by visual stimuli and he took in everything and i do not think he would deny the source

If your ear is taking you into a realm where you are hearing in an EDO above 6000, I will say this is not a very repeatable act.
Especially if taken in hindsight.
This is different than in it being done in a contrived fashion.

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > i quite enjoy that there are so many greatest living composers!
>
> Why not? You could be one too.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>> That leaves out Bach, Brahms, Chopin, Schumann, Ives.
>
>Not really. Schumann wrote an opera, Genoveva, which
>is excellent despite the fact that it hasn't established
>itself in the repertoire. Harnoncourt has a recording
>of it where he makes absurd claims about how much
>better it is than Wagner, in fact.
>
>Some of Bach's secular cantatas are in effect operettas.
>The passions use the style of opera to tell their story,
>and are sometimes staged. One might, I suppose, also
>stage the Brahms secular cantata Rinaldo.

I don't know what makes an opera, but it certainly must
include Bach's secular cantatas. For purposes of this
thread, if you have any recordings of at least one
orchestra piece and one keyboard piece, you're a composer
in my book. One piece for choir and orchestra, secular
or not, and one string quartet, would be nice-to-haves.

-Carl