Re: [MMM] Reply to Jacky re: Pelog

Paul,

Thanks for the great parody.

But seriously, when you came up with these ideas, were
you analyzing pelog scales from Java or from Bali and
from which region?

The 7-limit claim as a general postulate on authentic
slendro is simply uninformed. But it might make for
some nice theoretical scales, or for work in
contemporary western gamelan.

- Jeff

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "X. J. Scott" <xjscott@e...> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Thanks for the great parody.

???

> But seriously, when you came up with these ideas, were
> you analyzing pelog scales from Java or from Bali and
> from which region?

Again, Herman Miller first came up with these ideas, not me. As for
my personal experience of these musics with which I compared (via
improvising on my synth), most of it was years ago with headphones on
sitting in libraries -- though I recollect few of the details, much
of the material was assembled as a complement to a course taught by
Michael Tenzer (http://www.music.ubc.ca/grad/grad_tenzer.html)
(unfortunately my schedule forced me into a section with a different
professor), hence my guess is that it was primarily from Bali . . .

> The 7-limit claim as a general postulate on authentic
> slendro is simply uninformed.

I would tend to agree, but isn't it ultimately a matter of
interpretation? Perhaps you can elaborate on your views here.

> But it might make for
> some nice theoretical scales, or for work in
> contemporary western gamelan.

Not to mention work with more conventional western timbres -- since
1029:1024 is a small comma, tempering it out can still result in a
rather "just" sounding scale -- a perfect example is the "slendro"
that is every fourth note of the blackjack scale.

Please follow up on the tuning list, or if you refuse, then
metatuning -- I fear we're severely violating the stated purpose of
this list.

Cheers,
Paul

--- In MakeMicroMusic@y..., "jacky_ligon" <jacky_ligon@y...> wrote:
> Jeff my Bro,
>
> Now just so I understand, do you object to this because it makes it
> into an MOS rather than having a mix of different step sizes?

If I may attempt to clarify, it seems to me Jeff was objecting to one
Slendro derivation I described but not necessarily to the "5-limit"
Pelog which was the main subject of my post . . .

. . . and note that in that latter regard, I did specifically allow
for a mix of different step sizes, as long as the basic "reverse-
Western topology" of 3 fifths = major third, 4 fifths = minor third,
is preserved . . .
>
> Knowing that you have actually played in a Gamelan before, what can
> you say about the tuning(s) as you perceived them?
>
> Was the octave wide or narrow?

It is well-documented that one can find Gamelans with wide octaves as
well as Gamelans with narrow octaves in various parts of
Indonesia . . . just octaves are also well known to, though generally
not desired to, Gamelan tuners . . . their lack of second-order
beating gives them a rather "dead" sound which Gamelan tuners refer
to as "pleng" . . .

Jacky,

Gamelans are considered spiritual beings in Indonesia
and the tuning of an instrument is in ways a animistic
practice, the secrets of which are not to be revealed
to outsiders.

-> Spiritual concern follow-ups to spiritual_tuning.
-> Analysis of MOS to crazy_music if you want me to
comment on it, or to tuning if you don't since I
don't subscribe there.

Otherwise we are off-topic unless SOMEONE is willing to
post musical examples of gamelan tunings they have
found or come up with. I will note that both Jacky and
I have already posted music which fulfills this
criteria. (Go Jacky!)

- Jeff

----------

> Jeff my Bro,

> Now just so I understand, do you object to this because it
> makes it into an MOS rather than having a mix of different
> step sizes?

> Knowing that you have actually played in a Gamelan before,
> what can you say about the tuning(s) as you perceived them?

> Was the octave wide or narrow?

> J:L

Jeff!
some gamelan tunings are posted at http://www.anaphoria.com/depos.html
as Mircea Eliade pointed out, western art seen from the perceptive of
anthropology is for a great part the secularization of sacred objects. I
acknowledge that there are many here among us who goals are the exact
opposite of this.

it has been known to degenerate to that lowest of low levels as "art for
arts sake"!

"X. J. Scott" wrote:

>
> Otherwise we are off-topic unless SOMEONE is willing to
> post musical examples of gamelan tunings they have
> found or come up with. I will note that both Jacky and
> I have already posted music which fulfills this
> criteria. (Go Jacky!)
>
> - Jeff
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Jacky!
Please!

jacky_ligon wrote:

> If you like I can give you my Gyaling tuning I
> researched from analyzing some Tibetan music. Had some beautiful 13
> limit ratios.
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Jacky/Kraig,

{Jacky, you wrote...}
>Many times I feel that what we call "art" is something so removed from >what it meant to the ancients to create from the spirit of their culture >or the culture of their spirit.

Check out the following if you have time:
"Mali's Art Celebrates the Life Force" -
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/01/03/african.art.ny.ap/index.html

Cheers,
Jon

Jonathan!
Thanks for this timely reference. I happened to be thinking about how it
is quite easy to recognize and even assimilate the mysticism of the east and
how those resonating elements from africa seems to partake to a much lesser
degree. i don't think the root of this is racial as much as cultural where
we associate passivity with spirituality. I remember how much i was taken
back for the first time by the sufi use of motion and action. The other
worldly aspects in african culture come often is a just such a similar form

"Jonathan M. Szanto" wrote:

> Jacky/Kraig,
>
> {Jacky, you wrote...}
> >Many times I feel that what we call "art" is something so removed from
> >what it meant to the ancients to create from the spirit of their culture
> >or the culture of their spirit.
>
> Check out the following if you have time:
> "Mali's Art Celebrates the Life Force" -
> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/01/03/african.art.ny.ap/index.html
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm