Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Music Commissioning / Microtonal Analog

Hey all,

I hope this isn't too offtopic. I'm working on a project where I'm
trying to get 28 commissions towards an album. My next few pieces
will be microtonal and analog. I'm going to use an OSC-> CV converter
to control oscillators and filters. I thought some of you might be
interested in my project. More information about my project is at
http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh/podcast/?page_id=60

And the converter has some information about it at
http://www.koncon.nl/ipsonlab/

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands

Commission Music:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins" <celesteh@...> wrote:

> I'm going to use an OSC-> CV converter
> to control oscillators and filters.
> And the converter has some information about it at
> http://www.koncon.nl/ipsonlab/

I've discovered that the ipsonlab is not the most user-friendly device ever designed. It
asked me for a password when I tried to get it going(!)

I'm looking for something that can convert OSC to CV. I know MIDI devices exist, but most
don't work well with alternate tunings. I'd rather not have to send scales out to a device,
but be able to compute them on my computer and send numbers directly.

Anybody here got suggestions?

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands

Commission Music: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902

🔗Cameron Bobro <misterbobro@...>

🔗Robin Perry <jinto83@...>

Hi Les,

What a great idea! Good luck.

Robin

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins"
<celesteh@...> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I hope this isn't too offtopic. I'm working on a project where
I'm
> trying to get 28 commissions towards an album. My next few pieces
> will be microtonal and analog. I'm going to use an OSC-> CV
converter
> to control oscillators and filters. I thought some of you might be
> interested in my project. More information about my project is at
> http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh/podcast/?page_id=60
>
> And the converter has some information about it at
> http://www.koncon.nl/ipsonlab/
>
> cheers,
> Les
>
> --
> Celeste Hutchins
http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
> 2430 5th St Ste N
> Berkeley, CA 94710
> USA
>
> Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
> 2511 AT Den Haag
> The Netherlands
>
> Commission Music:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902
>

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Cameron Bobro"
<misterbobro@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~c.ramakr/illposed/occam.html
>
> ?
>
> -Cameron Bobro
>

Thanks, but I'm not seeing the microtonal support.

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands

Commission Music:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Normally one does not ask other composers for commissions, that is for patrons

Celeste hutchins wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, "Cameron Bobro"
> <misterbobro@...> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~c.ramakr/illposed/occam.html > <http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/%7Ec.ramakr/illposed/occam.html>
> >
> > ?
> >
> > -Cameron Bobro
> >
>
> Thanks, but I'm not seeing the microtonal support.
>
> cheers,
> Les
>
> --
> Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh > <http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh>
> 2430 5th St Ste N
> Berkeley, CA 94710
> USA
>
> Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
> 2511 AT Den Haag
> The Netherlands
>
> Commission Music:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins"
<celesteh@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins"
<celesteh@> wrote:
>
> > I'm going to use an OSC-> CV converter
> > to control oscillators and filters.
> > And the converter has some information about it at
> > http://www.koncon.nl/ipsonlab/
>
> I've discovered that the ipsonlab is not the most user-friendly
device ever designed. It
> asked me for a password when I tried to get it going(!)
>
> I'm looking for something that can convert OSC to CV. I know MIDI
devices exist, but most
> don't work well with alternate tunings. I'd rather not have to send
scales out to a device,
> but be able to compute them on my computer and send numbers directly.
>
> Anybody here got suggestions?

Could the problem be that no one has yet implemented microtuning
support of any kind in OSC itself yet? If so, it is probably because
there aren't enough microtonal musicians who want to use OSC. Wow,
what a project that would be - come up with a data format for a tuning
to transmit, code to transmit the tuning information on the sending
end, and code to interpret the format on the receiving end.

If your OSC->CV converter is the destination of OSC data, what is the
OSC data source in your setup?

What tunings are you using? Anything in Scala format? Maybe you can
nicely ask someone to write you a Scala->OSC converter, but if what I
suspect is true, you may have to implement your own OSC tuning scheme
first, or have someone do it for you.

Paolo

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> Normally one does not ask other composers for commissions, that is for
> patrons
>

Indeed, you're correct. Part of the reason I'm trying to promote my
commissioning model with composers is that I think other composers
might benefit from trying the same thing. There's an explanation of
why I think this is a good idea at
http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh/podcast/?page_id=60 near the
bottom of the page.

I hope I have not caused offense. The description of this community
reads, "Making Microtonal Music, a forum dedicated to composers,
performers, and listeners of microtonal music." I was hoping there
might be some listeners among us.

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands

Commission Music:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...>
wrote:
> Could the problem be that no one has yet implemented microtuning
> support of any kind in OSC itself yet? If so, it is probably because
> there aren't enough microtonal musicians who want to use OSC. Wow,
> what a project that would be - come up with a data format for a tuning
> to transmit, code to transmit the tuning information on the sending
> end, and code to interpret the format on the receiving end.

OSC is pretty wide open, so no there is no standard for sending out
tuning. Standard CV is 1 Volt / Octave on an exponential scale. If
you have a converter, I would expect that it would convert your
numbers to a voltage, so you as the user would need to compute how
your scale mapped to voltages.

>
> If your OSC->CV converter is the destination of OSC data, what is the
> OSC data source in your setup?

SuperCollider, which is a very handy music programming language.

> What tunings are you using? Anything in Scala format? Maybe you can
> nicely ask someone to write you a Scala->OSC converter, but if what I
> suspect is true, you may have to implement your own OSC tuning scheme
> first, or have someone do it for you.

There's scala support for SuperCollider built by Jascha Narveson. I
don't know if he's posted it online yet, but if he hasn't I can ask
him to or ask permission to share it with users here, if any of you
are interested.

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands

Commission Music:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097331902

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins"
<celesteh@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@>
> wrote:
> > Could the problem be that no one has yet implemented microtuning
> > support of any kind in OSC itself yet? If so, it is probably because
> > there aren't enough microtonal musicians who want to use OSC. Wow,
> > what a project that would be - come up with a data format for a tuning
> > to transmit, code to transmit the tuning information on the sending
> > end, and code to interpret the format on the receiving end.
>
> OSC is pretty wide open, so no there is no standard for sending out
> tuning. Standard CV is 1 Volt / Octave on an exponential scale. If
> you have a converter, I would expect that it would convert your
> numbers to a voltage, so you as the user would need to compute how
> your scale mapped to voltages.

Though I have no immediate use for OSC myself, I'm interested in
hearing any developments as far as what decisions are made to transmit
a tuning across OSC.

I think it would be a good idea to keep the tuning data in OSC
messages separate from the tuning implementation on the receiving
side, so that OSC compatible synths need not use the same
implementation details as what will be in your OSC->CV converter.

On the Nord Modular G2, whose synth engine is heavily influenced by
modular analog systems, microtuning is implemented by use of virtual
Control Sequencer modules. Other step sequencer modules have a notion
of advancing linearly through steps based on clock signal input, but
in the G2, steps are triggered by the input value. When you view a
patch tuned in this manner inside the Editor software, you can see the
corresponding slider in a Control Sequencer module light up as you
press a key on the keyboard.

This method would be impractical, though, to implement on a real
modular analog system, because the virtual modules used to implement a
tuning on the G2 are generated by software that loads Scala files.
The software in its current state promises a tuning resolution of
0.7874 cents. I think it has something to do with the virtual Control
Sequencer module design, which is 16 steps/module - a typical tuned
patch uses a whole bunch of them in conjunction with Multiplexer
modules; as well as the ability to specify Oscillator frequencies in
Hz. The author says he can achieve a resolution of 0.01220 cents if
there is a requirement for it.

> > If your OSC->CV converter is the destination of OSC data, what is the
> > OSC data source in your setup?
>
> SuperCollider, which is a very handy music programming language.
>
> > What tunings are you using? Anything in Scala format? Maybe you can
> > nicely ask someone to write you a Scala->OSC converter, but if what I
> > suspect is true, you may have to implement your own OSC tuning scheme
> > first, or have someone do it for you.
>
> There's scala support for SuperCollider built by Jascha Narveson. I

So the Scala-loading end it taken care of and you just need the piece
that will convert the tuning into OSC messages. Interesting.

Paolo

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

Somebody on another group just pointed me at this hardware:
http://www.arduino.cc/

It's cheap, it works with SuperCollider and it will make control voltages.

I'll need to write some code to compute voltage values based on scala,
if somebody else hasn't already done it. I'll posta link here to any
code that I end up writing.

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands

Commission Music:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097940044

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> What the *#**, I lived in Berkeley for 7 years
> looking for microtonal stuff, attending CNMAT concerts,
> and this is the first time I've heard of berkeleynoise.
>
> I can really feel the ill effects of violating PKD's
> principle, living in San Jose for the last year.
>
> -Carl
>

Um, it's just my domain. I live(d) in West Berkeley and had an idea
that I wanted to start a record comapny. Then I discovered how much
work that actually is . . ..

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands

Commission Music:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097940044

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

🔗Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...>

🔗Jacob <jbarton@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins"
<celesteh@...> wrote:
> There's scala support for SuperCollider built by Jascha Narveson. I
> don't know if he's posted it online yet, but if he hasn't I can ask
> him to or ask permission to share it with users here, if any of you
> are interested.
>
> cheers,
> Les
>

Funny to read this now, when I am right now trying to get into
teaching Supercollider to wade through the scale tree. As in,
continuously change the generator size on a MOS scale.

I'm trying to get it to send OSC message to Kyma, which will then
auto-tune violin and bass. I love that OSC is so open, but I'm hoping
(this summer) to build into that freedom some constraints I would find
useful.

My curiosities there are towards the live exploration of morphing
between scales and structures and creative ways to use existing
interfaces. For example, playing a 41-tone scale within a single
octave of normal MIDI keyboard by mapping from different key velocity
ranges.

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Both Marcus Hobbs and Stephen Taylor via Erv Wilson have done much work with this with a kyma
including having the generator expand over time causing the patterns to fall into various MOS patterns.
Possibly one of them might be able to help you

Jacob wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:MakeMicroMusic%40yahoogroups.com>, "Celeste hutchins"
> <celesteh@...> wrote:
> > There's scala support for SuperCollider built by Jascha Narveson. I
> > don't know if he's posted it online yet, but if he hasn't I can ask
> > him to or ask permission to share it with users here, if any of you
> > are interested.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Les
> >
>
> Funny to read this now, when I am right now trying to get into
> teaching Supercollider to wade through the scale tree. As in,
> continuously change the generator size on a MOS scale.
>
> I'm trying to get it to send OSC message to Kyma, which will then
> auto-tune violin and bass. I love that OSC is so open, but I'm hoping
> (this summer) to build into that freedom some constraints I would find
> useful.
>
> My curiosities there are towards the live exploration of morphing
> between scales and structures and creative ways to use existing
> interfaces. For example, playing a 41-tone scale within a single
> octave of normal MIDI keyboard by mapping from different key velocity
> ranges.
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗paolovalladolid <phv40@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob" <jbarton@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins"
> <celesteh@> wrote:
> > There's scala support for SuperCollider built by Jascha Narveson. I
> > don't know if he's posted it online yet, but if he hasn't I can ask
> > him to or ask permission to share it with users here, if any of you
> > are interested.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Les
> >
>
> Funny to read this now, when I am right now trying to get into
> teaching Supercollider to wade through the scale tree. As in,
> continuously change the generator size on a MOS scale.
>
> I'm trying to get it to send OSC message to Kyma, which will then
> auto-tune violin and bass. I love that OSC is so open, but I'm hoping
> (this summer) to build into that freedom some constraints I would find
> useful.

Hopefully you and Les can work something out, as far as a reusable
tuning standard for OSC.

Have either of you looked into ChucK? It might end up being a
competitor to Supercollider, but ChucK was specifically designed for
realtime, networked music interaction: http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/

ChucK supports OSC and MIDI:
http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/doc/language/event.html#osc

Audicle appears to be a GUI for ChucK:
http://audicle.cs.princeton.edu/

ChucK people seem to be pretty active in this forum:
http://electro-music.com/forum/index.php?f=140

Within that same forum is Kassen's nice intro to ChucK:
http://audicle.cs.princeton.edu/

If I weren't so involved in other projects I'd be looking into this
myself.

Paolo

>
> My curiosities there are towards the live exploration of morphing
> between scales and structures and creative ways to use existing
> interfaces. For example, playing a 41-tone scale within a single
> octave of normal MIDI keyboard by mapping from different key velocity
> ranges.
>

🔗Celeste hutchins <celesteh@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob" <jbarton@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Celeste hutchins"
> >
> > Funny to read this now, when I am right now trying to get into
> > teaching Supercollider to wade through the scale tree. As in,
> > continuously change the generator size on a MOS scale.
> >
> > I'm trying to get it to send OSC message to Kyma, which will then
> > auto-tune violin and bass. I love that OSC is so open, but I'm

Kyma accepts floating point MIDI, which might be somwhat easier to
deal with, if you're sending something like individual notes or a
table of scale steps.

> Hopefully you and Les can work something out, as far as a reusable
> tuning standard for OSC.

Heh. I don't usually talk to hardware, except maybe via control
voltage, so this would be somewhat outside my normal field. Iirc,
there is already a MIDI-over OSC standard, which, when used with
floating point numbers is adequate for many (most?) microtonal
applications. It's just like MIDI but faster and more accurate.

Or you could look at the packets this thing takes:
http://www.smartcontroller.com.au/miniMidi/microCVController.html

> Have either of you looked into ChucK? It might end up being a
> competitor to Supercollider, but ChucK was specifically designed for
> realtime, networked music interaction: http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/

I looked at it a while ago. SuperCollider is also designed for
realtime, networked music interaction, actually. I didn't get into it
because I already know SC and it didn't seem to do anything that SC
can't do. Also, at the time, SC was further along, more stable and
had a larger user base. Occasionally, really great projects will pop
up, but they're somebody's thesis or something and they sort of die
away as that person loses interest. (*cough* which has nothing to do
with why there hasn't been an update in JavaJICalc in the last 4 years
or so, *cough*)

cheers,
Les

--
Celeste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

Nieuwstraat 25, 1E
2511 AT Den Haag
The Netherlands