Re: ochy ochy

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
<daniel_anthony_stearns@...> wrote:
>
> for anyone who might be interested, I've posted a little bulgarian
> choir piece that's been killing me lately
>
> http://zebox.com/danstearns_3/

Very nice Bulgarian choir stuff and it seems a little more microtonal
than most. But God, I hate Zebox. Downloading anything from there is
always such a battle.

What album is this from?

This style is beautiful, some of my favorite music ever. I loved the
original 'Mystere des Voix Bulgares' album, and wore it out.

I love this track too. Don't you the love the pain of the high voices
wailing?

In general, this region of the world has produced some of my favorite
music...the blend of East and West is ideal, and I love the sense of
rhythm that evolved the great asymmetrical/additive time signature
phenomenon.

Another thing you might want to check out if you love this is the
choral music of Zoltan Kodaly.

Best,
Aaron.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
<daniel_anthony_stearns@...> wrote:
>
> for anyone who might be interested, I've posted a little bulgarian
> choir piece that's been killing me lately
>
> http://zebox.com/danstearns_3/
>
> I'm sure most you have heard, or at least heard of, the Le Mystere des
> Voix Bulgares or the Trio Bulgarka etc, but this is an earlier
> recording and by far my favorite piece i've heard in this style, and
> I've been furtunate enough to hear quite a few fine Bulgarian Cds too.
> What's so special on this piece to me is the mix of simple and achingly
> beautiful minor key goodness and those strange occasions of stunningly
> bizarre chromatics and passing tones .The first time I heard this
> piece, I loved it, but repeated listens killed me. It's folk music for
> sure, but IMO, Wagner at his most lush and harmonically saturated
> textures doesn't touch where these "simple" village baba mapmas
> go...incredible.
>

Gene,

{you wrote...}
>But God, I hate Zebox. Downloading anything from there is always such a battle.

Sounds like a problem on your end - one click on the download arrow and the file downloaded to my computer. It can't possibly be any easier than that, and God has nothing to do with it.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

> Sounds like a problem on your end - one click on the download arrow
and the file downloaded to my computer. It can't possibly be any easier
than that, and God has nothing to do with it.

Which only means that it works for *your* setup. It certainly *should*
also work for IE under W2000.

To be sure, part of the pain is arguably my own doing, in that I have
to disable a download manager and a protection program first. But then
I get to a page where some godawful embedded music thing starts,
slowing everything down and gumming up the works. Clicking on the link
and telling it to download the target doesn't work, you have to click
on the link, and that brings up a download page. You then have to right-
click and tell it to "save target as". All in all a pain which takes
some time. Maybe if I had stuck with Firefox it would be better, but
that had its own problems.

Gene,

Yep, it definitely sounds like your system is the problem. If embedded players were a problem, MySpace.com wouldn't have zillions of users; the one that Zebox uses is a very common app in use across the web. If I was in your zip code, I'd come over to help out, but that isn't the case; you might consider some hardware/software upgrades at some point. Sorry it isn't working for you.

Cheers,
Jon

Hey Aaron and Dan,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:

> This style is beautiful, some of my favorite music ever.
> I loved the original 'Mystere des Voix Bulgares' album,
> and wore it out.
>
> I love this track too. Don't you the love the pain of the
> high voices wailing?
>
> In general, this region of the world has produced some of
> my favorite music...the blend of East and West is ideal,
> and I love the sense of rhythm that evolved the great
> asymmetrical/additive time signature phenomenon.

I really love Bulgarian folk music too ... i've been into
since my college days (around 1980), long before "Mystere..."
became an international hit.

"Mystere" is a great album, but it's folk music style
filtered thru city-slicker arrangements and performing
technique. The stuff i love the most is the really raw
choral music recorded in the villages in the 1950s.

I was into Bulgarian folk music so much that it actually
left quite an influence on my own style. I've been crazy
about irregular meters ever since ... but it goes beyond
that, there's some kind of elusive slithering melodic
movement going on, and it's found its way into my deepest
musical language.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Aaron and Dan,
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
> <aaron@> wrote:
>
> > This style is beautiful, some of my favorite music ever.
> > I loved the original 'Mystere des Voix Bulgares' album,
> > and wore it out.
> >
> > I love this track too. Don't you the love the pain of the
> > high voices wailing?
> >
> > In general, this region of the world has produced some of
> > my favorite music...the blend of East and West is ideal,
> > and I love the sense of rhythm that evolved the great
> > asymmetrical/additive time signature phenomenon.
>
>
> I really love Bulgarian folk music too ... i've been into
> since my college days (around 1980), long before "Mystere..."
> became an international hit.
>
> "Mystere" is a great album, but it's folk music style
> filtered thru city-slicker arrangements and performing
> technique. The stuff i love the most is the really raw
> choral music recorded in the villages in the 1950s.

I disagree with this assessment. Yes, they are arranged, but I think
artfully and tastefully. No Kenny-G there!

Anyway, I'd like to know what discs you recommend of the 1950's stuff.

> I was into Bulgarian folk music so much that it actually
> left quite an influence on my own style. I've been crazy
> about irregular meters ever since ... but it goes beyond
> that, there's some kind of elusive slithering melodic
> movement going on, and it's found its way into my deepest
> musical language.

Yes...and thankfully, into Bartok and Kodaly.

BTW, do you know the 44 duos (two violins) of Bartok? Some of my
favorite music of his...great little miniatures that distill his essence.

-A.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Gene,
>
> Yep, it definitely sounds like your system is the problem. If
embedded players were a problem, MySpace.com wouldn't have zillions of
users...

Eh??? Of course embedded players are a problem. They are vile and
horrible and should never be used under any circumstances.

>Eh??? Of course embedded players are a problem. They are vile
>and horrible and should never be used under any circumstances.

I used to think this. And given the state of things, I still
do. But ultimately, it could only be good to be able to put
sound and video into text the way images can be put into text.
Too bad software can't do this very well yet. Heck,
positioning images on a page is still pretty awful.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> >Eh??? Of course embedded players are a problem. They are vile
> >and horrible and should never be used under any circumstances.
>
> I used to think this. And given the state of things, I still
> do. But ultimately, it could only be good to be able to put
> sound and video into text the way images can be put into text.

You think so? Have you ever been listening to music and had a web page
break in with something awful?

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>>> Eh??? Of course embedded players are a problem. They are vile
>>> and horrible and should never be used under any circumstances.
>> I used to think this. And given the state of things, I still
>> do. But ultimately, it could only be good to be able to put
>> sound and video into text the way images can be put into text.
> > You think so? Have you ever been listening to music and had a web page > break in with something awful?

I would refine the problem to embedded players that auto-start.

anyway, great song. I love balkan folk music. I would love to know what its from.

The title means 'eyes, eyes'. I would probably write it 'ochi, ochi' as the cyrillic is 'очи, очи'. Unfortunately my Bulgarian isnt strong enough to figure out any more of what the song is about.

'ochy, ochy' made me think it was scottish for some reason. :)

martin.

Gene,

{you wrote...}
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>> I used to think this. And given the state of things, I still
>> do. But ultimately, it could only be good to be able to put
>> sound and video into text the way images can be put into text.
>
>You think so? Have you ever been listening to music and had a web page
>break in with something awful?

Come on, Gene, that is a complaint about the decisions a web page designer makes, and not the technology. I *ABSOLUTELY* hate a page that transparently forces music to be played, but a properly embedded player, with full controls accessible, is a very sensible approach to presenting music. I allows one to sample bits before downloading an entire piece, it allows the artist (if you will) to offer up music while still retaining a small bit of control, and when done efficiently and elegantly, can add value to the experience of visiting a musical site.

Try to differentiate between your experience (i.e. whether it works on your particular choice of hardware and software, and whether or not the music stream was done in a considerate and expert manner or just dumped on you) and what the technology can really do. When done properly, this is a technology that is very good for musicians to disseminate their work.

Cheers,
Jon

>> >Eh??? Of course embedded players are a problem. They are vile
>> >and horrible and should never be used under any circumstances.
>>
>> I used to think this. And given the state of things, I still
>> do. But ultimately, it could only be good to be able to put
>> sound and video into text the way images can be put into text.
>
>You think so? Have you ever been listening to music and had a web page
>break in with something awful?

I didn't say it should play on page load.

-Carl

Hi Aaron,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@> wrote:
> >
> > "Mystere" is a great album, but it's folk music style
> > filtered thru city-slicker arrangements and performing
> > technique. The stuff i love the most is the really raw
> > choral music recorded in the villages in the 1950s.
>
> I disagree with this assessment. Yes, they are arranged,
> but I think artfully and tastefully. No Kenny-G there!

Hey, i never said "Mystere" was not artful or tasteful!
It's a fantastic album, and i've listened to it hundreds
of times.

But what i wrote is still true: it *is* a city-slicker
version of Bulgarian folk music, and if you like the
"raw" features as much as i do, then you want the
"unfiltered" music from the villages.

> Anyway, I'd like to know what discs you recommend
> of the 1950's stuff.

Check out the discography here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Bulgaria

These are the ones i know and love:

* Music of Bulgaria [Original 1955 Recording] (Nonesuch 9 72011)
Early recordings of Philip Koutev and the
Ensemble of the Bulgarian Republic.

* Village Music of Bulgaria (Elektra/Nonesuch 9 79195)
Two albums of field recordings on one CD ("A Harvest,
a Shepherd, a Bride", and "In the Shadow of the Mountain").

I got them from the New York Public Library back in 1979,
when they were still on vinyl. I must have listened to
"In the Shadow of the Mountain" several thousand times
over the course of the next decade.

> BTW, do you know the 44 duos (two violins) of Bartok?
> Some of my favorite music of his...great little miniatures
> that distill his essence.

I know that i've heard some of them, but can't really
say that i "know" them ... so, a subject for future
listening. Thanks for that.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "daniel_anthony_stearns"
<daniel_anthony_stearns@...> wrote:
>
> for anyone who might be interested, I've posted a little bulgarian
> choir piece that's been killing me lately
>
> http://zebox.com/danstearns_3/
>
> I'm sure most you have heard, or at least heard of, the Le Mystere
> des Voix Bulgares or the Trio Bulgarka etc, but this is an earlier
> recording and by far my favorite piece i've heard in this style, and
> I've been furtunate enough to hear quite a few fine Bulgarian Cds
> too.
> What's so special on this piece to me is the mix of simple and
> achingly beautiful minor key goodness and those strange occasions of
> stunningly bizarre chromatics and passing tones .The first time I
> heard this piece, I loved it, but repeated listens killed me. It's
> folk music for sure, but IMO, Wagner at his most lush and
> harmonically saturated textures doesn't touch where these "simple"
> village baba mapmas
> go...incredible.
>

I had heard speaking of Le Mystère des Voix Bulgares - now I heard the
music for the first time. Really, really powerful, indeed. Thanks for
sharing thsi!
--
Hans Straub

>> "Mystere" is a great album, but it's folk music style
>> filtered thru city-slicker arrangements and performing
>> technique. The stuff i love the most is the really raw
>> choral music recorded in the villages in the 1950s.
>
>I disagree with this assessment. Yes, they are arranged, but I think
>artfully and tastefully. No Kenny-G there!
>
>Anyway, I'd like to know what discs you recommend of the 1950's stuff.

Aaron, I think you may find the Retrover Ensemble's album
Choralis Septentrionalis an interesting adjunct to the
Bulgarian style.

-Carl