Re: Delian Society

Out of curiosity and without success, I went through the pages of the Delian Society website, in search of their definition of "tonal". Their Yahoo! Groups page requires membership, so I couldn't go through the archives there, but I am still curious to learn if anyone in their ranks has put a definition out.

Daniel Wolf

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity and without success, I went through the pages of the
> Delian Society website, in search of their definition of "tonal".

Why do they need to define "tonal"?

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity and without success, I went through the pages of the
> Delian Society website, in search of their definition of "tonal".
Their
> Yahoo! Groups page requires membership, so I couldn't go through the
> archives there, but I am still curious to learn if anyone in their
ranks
> has put a definition out.
>
> Daniel Wolf
>

Offhand, I would say anything not avowedly "serialist" would qualify as
tonal. Composers at the Delians are generally (but not always) a bit
conservative, and work in styles and harmonies from the 16th to 20th
centuries (Prokovief et al). This is over-simplifying to say the least,
but gives a general idea of where they're coming from.

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
>>
>> Out of curiosity and without success, I went through the pages of the
>> Delian Society website, in search of their definition of "tonal".
>Their
>> Yahoo! Groups page requires membership, so I couldn't go through the
>> archives there, but I am still curious to learn if anyone in their
>ranks
>> has put a definition out.
>>
>> Daniel Wolf
>>
>
>
>Offhand, I would say anything not avowedly "serialist" would qualify as
>tonal. Composers at the Delians are generally (but not always) a bit
>conservative, and work in styles and harmonies from the 16th to 20th
>centuries (Prokovief et al). This is over-simplifying to say the least,
>but gives a general idea of where they're coming from.

I tried to sign up for the list, just to check them out, but it seems that you have to become a full-fledged member of the Society. I doubtless qualify (tonality is like pornography; "I know it when I see it".) and it might be of some advantage, but I'm a little suspicious about special-pleading for tonal music qua tonal music. People tend to justify their music because it's tonal (or for that matter, microtonal) when it's just bad. And writing freshly in a tonal style is more of a challenge since so many of the possibilities have been explored, and stale tonal music seems more obviously stale than stale atonal music.
--
Jeffrey Quick
www.en.com/users/jaquick
http://blog.case.edu/jeffrey.quick/
If your Renaissance band has a dumbek, the terrorists have won.

Jeffrey Quick wrote:
> (tonality is like pornography; "I know it when I see it".) Is it your original sentence? I would like to add it with credits to my collection of quotations.
aum

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genewardsmith wrote:

"Why do they need to define "tonal"?"

The Delian Society -- like a number of organizations and competitions etc. -- defines their common interest as tonal music. I'd just like to know what they mean by that.

Thanks! It is ready (http://www.noise.cz/summasummarum/misc/124.html). aum

Jeffrey Quick wrote:
> As stated, yes.
>
> But it stems from this:
>
> "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material > [pornography] ... but I know it when I see it."
>
> ~ Justice Potter Stewart, in Jacobellis Vs. Ohio, Jun 22, 1964
>
>
>
> Go for it, if you want to.
>
>
>
> -- > Jeffrey Quick

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Jeffrey Quick wrote:
> (tonality is like pornography; "I know it when I see it".)
Is it your original sentence? I would like to add it with credits to my
collection of quotations.
aum

I first heard the paraphrase of Potter Stewart with regard to tonality from Nicholas Slonimsky, ca. 1985, over dinner in L.A., and since repeated many times by others. It's sort of an obvious construction.

Daniel Wolf

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
>
> genewardsmith wrote:
>
> "Why do they need to define "tonal"?"
>
> The Delian Society -- like a number of organizations and competitions
> etc. -- defines their common interest as tonal music. I'd just like
to
> know what they mean by that.

It's a tricky business. William Schuman was at a concert of his music
in Georgia, the story goes, and a woman came up to him and told him how
much she liked it even though it was atonal. He politely informed her
that his music always has a tonal center, and she replies "Mr. Schuman,
in New York your music may be tonal but here in Macon it's atonal!"

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:

> I first heard the paraphrase of Potter Stewart with regard to
tonality
> from Nicholas Slonimsky, ca. 1985, over dinner in L.A., and since
> repeated many times by others. It's sort of an obvious construction.

I'm surprised; "I know it when I hear it" seems much more obvious to me.

i got he same reaction in the south of France where they thought it was dissonant. in L.A. It is considered consonant.

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@...> wrote:
> >> genewardsmith wrote:
>>
>> "Why do they need to define "tonal"?"
>>
>> The Delian Society -- like a number of organizations and competitions >> etc. -- defines their common interest as tonal music. I'd just like >> > to > >> know what they mean by that.
>> >
> It's a tricky business. William Schuman was at a concert of his music > in Georgia, the story goes, and a woman came up to him and told him how > much she liked it even though it was atonal. He politely informed her > that his music always has a tonal center, and she replies "Mr. Schuman, > in New York your music may be tonal but here in Macon it's atonal!"
>
>
>
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>Jeffrey Quick wrote:
> > (tonality is like pornography; "I know it when I see it".)
>Is it your original sentence? I would like to add it with credits to my
>collection of quotations.
>aum
>
>
>I first heard the paraphrase of Potter Stewart with regard to tonality
>from Nicholas Slonimsky, ca. 1985, over dinner in L.A., and since
>repeated many times by others. It's sort of an obvious construction.
>
>Daniel Wolf

Leave it to old Nick to get there before I did. So much for my 15 min. of fame...and I'm not even in Baker!!!

As for Macon, I'd once heard of some Southern orch. (forget where) that lost half its subscribers when they programmed the SYMPHONY OF PSALMS!
--
Jeffrey Quick
www.en.com/users/jaquick
http://blog.case.edu/jeffrey.quick/
If your Renaissance band has a dumbek, the terrorists have won.

Sometimes even the obvious constructions are worth mention. aum
> I first heard the paraphrase of Potter Stewart with regard to tonality > from Nicholas Slonimsky, ca. 1985, over dinner in L.A., and since > repeated many times by others. It's sort of an obvious construction.
>
> Daniel Wolf

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