Re: [MMM] Re: New music uploaded, multi-system music

At 10:35 PM 1/12/2007, you wrote:
>Hi George
>
>Good term , so I use transformation here : System transformation.
>
>Shaahin Mohajeri

Hi Shaahin,

Please note, the term suggested by Ivor is "transfer", which
is different than "transformation".

-Carl

Hi carl
yes ,you are right but,as i know , according to my bad
english , "transfer" means moving something to another place , like
transposition in music.In music "transposition" refers to the
process of moving a collection of notes (pitches) up or down in
pitch by a constant interval. For example, one might transpose an
entire piece of music into another key. Similarly, one might
transpose a tone row or an unordered collection of pitches such as a
chord so that it begins on another pitch. See also Transposing
instrument and modulation.(from
wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_%28music%29)
transposition can occure in one system , for example a mode in 12-
EDO.
in wiktionary you see also "transfer" as to move or pass from one
place, person or thing to another .so like transposition , you
transfer a melody from one key to another key.
but i used "transformation" , because a marked change in appearance
or character of intervallic structure has occured,new system , not
different order of pitches in the same system of 12-edo , 8-
ado , .....i think it is a kind of transposition with a marked
change in character of intervallic structure which can be called
transformational transposition or transference.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> At 10:35 PM 1/12/2007, you wrote:
> >Hi George
> >
> >Good term , so I use transformation here : System transformation.
> >
> >Shaahin Mohajeri
>
> Hi Shaahin,
>
> Please note, the term suggested by Ivor is "transfer", which
> is different than "transformation".
>
> -Carl
>

Hi carl , again

In http://www.microtonal.freeservers.com/mclaren/post115.html
we read from maclaren :
<<<.....We can "transfer" back (Ivor Darreg used the term "transfer"
to indicate musical movement between different tuning systems in the
course of a composition) from 19-TET to the 2,4 [1,3,5,X] hexany
just as easily, and from there to 2,4, [1,3,5,7].

Now, it's equally obvious that we can just as easily move from a
Wilson CPS to, say, 15-TET, and once in 15-TET, we could easily move
to 12-TET or 9-TET, which both share 3 common tones with 15-
TET...and this opens the door to "transfer" between *many* different
types of scales.......>>>

isn't it possible to transfer a melody by common tones of some
different modes in a well-tempered 12-tone scale?isn't it a change
of key? so usage of transference can be like modulation and
transposition.is my statement correct?

it is called a tonal or modal transposition as opposed to what they call a 'real' transposition.
I prefer the former

acousticsoftombak wrote:
> Hi carl , again
>
> In http://www.microtonal.freeservers.com/mclaren/post115.html
> we read from maclaren :
> <<<.....We can "transfer" back (Ivor Darreg used the term "transfer" > to indicate musical movement between different tuning systems in the > course of a composition) from 19-TET to the 2,4 [1,3,5,X] hexany > just as easily, and from there to 2,4, [1,3,5,7]. >
> Now, it's equally obvious that we can just as easily move from a > Wilson CPS to, say, 15-TET, and once in 15-TET, we could easily move > to 12-TET or 9-TET, which both share 3 common tones with 15-
> TET...and this opens the door to "transfer" between *many* different > types of scales.......>>>
> > isn't it possible to transfer a melody by common tones of some > different modes in a well-tempered 12-tone scale?isn't it a change > of key? so usage of transference can be like modulation and > transposition.is my statement correct?
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

you prefer transfer?

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
wrote:
>
> it is called a tonal or modal transposition as opposed to what
they call
> a 'real' transposition.
> I prefer the former
>
> acousticsoftombak wrote:
> > Hi carl , again
> >
> > In http://www.microtonal.freeservers.com/mclaren/post115.html
> > we read from maclaren :
> > <<<.....We can "transfer" back (Ivor Darreg used the
term "transfer"
> > to indicate musical movement between different tuning systems in
the
> > course of a composition) from 19-TET to the 2,4 [1,3,5,X] hexany
> > just as easily, and from there to 2,4, [1,3,5,7].
> >
> > Now, it's equally obvious that we can just as easily move from a
> > Wilson CPS to, say, 15-TET, and once in 15-TET, we could easily
move
> > to 12-TET or 9-TET, which both share 3 common tones with 15-
> > TET...and this opens the door to "transfer" between *many*
different
> > types of scales.......>>>
> >
> > isn't it possible to transfer a melody by common tones of some
> > different modes in a well-tempered 12-tone scale?isn't it a
change
> > of key? so usage of transference can be like modulation and
> > transposition.is my statement correct?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
<http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los
Angeles
>

modal or scalar transpositions to real transposition musically.
acousticsoftombak wrote:
> you prefer transfer?
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> > wrote:
> >> it is called a tonal or modal transposition as opposed to what >> > they call > >> a 'real' transposition.
>> I prefer the former
>>
>> acousticsoftombak wrote:
>> >>> Hi carl , again
>>>
>>> In http://www.microtonal.freeservers.com/mclaren/post115.html
>>> we read from maclaren :
>>> <<<.....We can "transfer" back (Ivor Darreg used the >>> > term "transfer" > >>> to indicate musical movement between different tuning systems in >>> > the > >>> course of a composition) from 19-TET to the 2,4 [1,3,5,X] hexany >>> just as easily, and from there to 2,4, [1,3,5,7]. >>>
>>> Now, it's equally obvious that we can just as easily move from a >>> Wilson CPS to, say, 15-TET, and once in 15-TET, we could easily >>> > move > >>> to 12-TET or 9-TET, which both share 3 common tones with 15-
>>> TET...and this opens the door to "transfer" between *many* >>> > different > >>> types of scales.......>>>
>>> >>> isn't it possible to transfer a melody by common tones of some >>> different modes in a well-tempered 12-tone scale?isn't it a >>> > change > >>> of key? so usage of transference can be like modulation and >>> transposition.is my statement correct?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> >> -- >> Kraig Grady
>> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island >> > <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> >> The Wandering Medicine Show
>> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los >> > Angeles
> >
>
>
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main/index.asp> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Sure Shaahin, this reasoning is not without merit. If you
like "transformation" better, by all means use it!

-Carl

>Hi carl
>yes ,you are right but,as i know , according to my bad
>english , "transfer" means moving something to another place , like
>transposition in music.In music "transposition" refers to the
>process of moving a collection of notes (pitches) up or down in
>pitch by a constant interval. For example, one might transpose an
>entire piece of music into another key. Similarly, one might
>transpose a tone row or an unordered collection of pitches such as a
>chord so that it begins on another pitch. See also Transposing
>instrument and modulation.(from
>wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_%28music%29)
>transposition can occure in one system , for example a mode in 12-
>EDO.
>in wiktionary you see also "transfer" as to move or pass from one
>place, person or thing to another .so like transposition , you
>transfer a melody from one key to another key.
>but i used "transformation" , because a marked change in appearance
>or character of intervallic structure has occured,new system , not
>different order of pitches in the same system of 12-edo , 8-
>ado , .....i think it is a kind of transposition with a marked
>change in character of intervallic structure which can be called
>transformational transposition or transference.

>isn't it possible to transfer a melody by common tones of some
>different modes in a well-tempered 12-tone scale?isn't it a change
>of key? so usage of transference can be like modulation and
>transposition.is my statement correct?

Yes, I would say this is a very fertile realm of possibilites.

-Carl

Hi carl

thanks for your sympathy with the idea.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> >isn't it possible to transfer a melody by common tones of some
> >different modes in a well-tempered 12-tone scale?isn't it a change
> >of key? so usage of transference can be like modulation and
> >transposition.is my statement correct?
>
> Yes, I would say this is a very fertile realm of possibilites.
>
> -Carl
>