Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Adagio for Margo

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Magnus Jonsson <magnus@...> wrote:
>
> Aaron, I like this very much. What is the instrument you are playing?

Hi, Magnus,

Thanks for listening.

I used two soundfonts from the "Early Patches" set--a hammered
dulcimer sound, layered with an alto recorder sound. The soundfonts
were loaded into the 'fluidsynth' software engine, and run through a
software effects rack (jack-rack) which hosted my favorite effects
plugin: Freeverb. I was using the Jack low-latency audio server under
Linux.

I used my custom software to 'compile' the MIDI file, and again custom
software to play it, both written in Python.

Best,
Aaron.

> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > This is a new work that I've been whittling at for the last two weeks,
> > before, during and after my move. Can anyone identify the tuning?
> >
> > It's my take on Margo Schulter's 'neo-medieval' style, and thus I
> > dedicate it to her in friendship. Thanks Margo, for your inspirational
> > discussions and exploration of this subject!
> >
> > http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/AdagioForMargo.ogg
> > http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/AdagioForMargo.mp3
> >
> > Best,
> > Aaron
> >
> >
>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> this is really really good!
> But it is too damn short.
> MORE!!!

Hmm...I'm glad you thought it was too SHORT---I was worried about it
being too LONG---but I guess after hearing it a number of times, I
think it's the right length--anyway, better to leave you wanting more
rather than shutting it off 10 seconds in.

Anyway, I'm glad you liked it. After having done this particular
tuning twice now, I'm beginning to see its appeal---oops, I said too much.

So, there will be MORE to come for sure.

Best,
Aaron.

🔗Mohajeri Shahin <shahinm@...>

Hi all
Very beautiful ,aaron , I wish I were margo to have this music !!
It shows how a tuning system can show different musical concepts which may be different at first glance.
Although , it is very soon for me to guess tuning but fell it very beautiful.

Shaahin Mohajeri

Tombak Player & Researcher , Microtonal Composer

My web siteوب سايت شاهين مهاجري <http://240edo.tripod.com/>

My farsi page in Harmonytalk صفحه اختصاصي در هارموني تاك <http://www.harmonytalk.com/mohajeri>

Shaahin Mohajeri in Wikipedia شاهين مهاجري دردائره المعارف ويكي پديا <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaahin_mohajeri>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

it wasn't meant as a negative comment at all.
i would have been happy if it was 8 times longer
the tuning for me has enough tension for me at least to keep it going and from settling quickly.

Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
> >> this is really really good!
>> But it is too damn short.
>> MORE!!!
>> >
> Hmm...I'm glad you thought it was too SHORT---I was worried about it
> being too LONG---but I guess after hearing it a number of times, I
> think it's the right length--anyway, better to leave you wanting more
> rather than shutting it off 10 seconds in.
>
> Anyway, I'm glad you liked it. After having done this particular
> tuning twice now, I'm beginning to see its appeal---oops, I said too much.
>
> So, there will be MORE to come for sure.
>
> Best,
> Aaron.
>
>
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> wrote:
>
> it wasn't meant as a negative comment at all.
> i would have been happy if it was 8 times longer
> the tuning for me has enough tension for me at least to keep it going
> and from settling quickly.

Speaking of which, the tuning is 17-edo....did anyone guess that?

I knew you'd like it Kraig, because you said you like 17-edo in here
before. I know that you prefer temperings that have slightly wide
fifths, esp. because you like step sizes of 9/8 (or wider, as the case
may be)

It's been said here before, but 17-edo, I have to agree, has nice
narrow semitones--good for melodic lines.

-A.

> Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@>
wrote:
> >
> >> this is really really good!
> >> But it is too damn short.
> >> MORE!!!
> >>
> >
> > Hmm...I'm glad you thought it was too SHORT---I was worried about it
> > being too LONG---but I guess after hearing it a number of times, I
> > think it's the right length--anyway, better to leave you wanting more
> > rather than shutting it off 10 seconds in.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm glad you liked it. After having done this particular
> > tuning twice now, I'm beginning to see its appeal---oops, I said
too much.
> >
> > So, there will be MORE to come for sure.
> >
> > Best,
> > Aaron.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
<http://anaphoria.com/index.html>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>

🔗Magnus Jonsson <magnus@...>

Cool Aaron,

I didn't know you are also a programer just like me. I've myself been struggling to get some good sounds out of my linux box for a while, so seeing an example like this is encouraging. I'll check out the early patches set and jack-rack. Now if only I could find a good choir sound font (maybe I'm asking the impossible)...

Best,
Magnus Jonsson

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:

> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Magnus Jonsson <magnus@...> wrote:
>>
>> Aaron, I like this very much. What is the instrument you are playing?
>
> Hi, Magnus,
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> I used two soundfonts from the "Early Patches" set--a hammered
> dulcimer sound, layered with an alto recorder sound. The soundfonts
> were loaded into the 'fluidsynth' software engine, and run through a
> software effects rack (jack-rack) which hosted my favorite effects
> plugin: Freeverb. I was using the Jack low-latency audio server under
> Linux.
>
> I used my custom software to 'compile' the MIDI file, and again custom
> software to play it, both written in Python.
>
> Best,
> Aaron.
>
>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> This is a new work that I've been whittling at for the last two weeks,
>>> before, during and after my move. Can anyone identify the tuning?
>>>
>>> It's my take on Margo Schulter's 'neo-medieval' style, and thus I
>>> dedicate it to her in friendship. Thanks Margo, for your inspirational
>>> discussions and exploration of this subject!
>>>
>>> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/AdagioForMargo.ogg
>>> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/AdagioForMargo.mp3
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Aaron
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Magnus Jonsson <magnus@...> wrote:
>
> Cool Aaron,
>
> I didn't know you are also a programer just like me. I've myself been
> struggling to get some good sounds out of my linux box for a while, so
> seeing an example like this is encouraging. I'll check out the early
> patches set and jack-rack. Now if only I could find a good choir sound
> font (maybe I'm asking the impossible)...

Early Patches, BTW, is not free---but of course jack, jack-rack, etc. are.

I think all choir sounds that I've heard as far as samples go really suck.

Best,
Aaron.

> Best,
> Magnus Jonsson
>
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Magnus Jonsson <magnus@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Aaron, I like this very much. What is the instrument you are playing?
> >
> > Hi, Magnus,
> >
> > Thanks for listening.
> >
> > I used two soundfonts from the "Early Patches" set--a hammered
> > dulcimer sound, layered with an alto recorder sound. The soundfonts
> > were loaded into the 'fluidsynth' software engine, and run through a
> > software effects rack (jack-rack) which hosted my favorite effects
> > plugin: Freeverb. I was using the Jack low-latency audio server under
> > Linux.
> >
> > I used my custom software to 'compile' the MIDI file, and again custom
> > software to play it, both written in Python.
> >
> > Best,
> > Aaron.
> >
> >> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> This is a new work that I've been whittling at for the last two
weeks,
> >>> before, during and after my move. Can anyone identify the tuning?
> >>>
> >>> It's my take on Margo Schulter's 'neo-medieval' style, and thus I
> >>> dedicate it to her in friendship. Thanks Margo, for your
inspirational
> >>> discussions and exploration of this subject!
> >>>
> >>> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/AdagioForMargo.ogg
> >>> http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/AdagioForMargo.mp3
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Aaron
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

🔗George D. Secor <gdsecor@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Krister Johnson"
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@>
wrote:
> >
> > it wasn't meant as a negative comment at all.
> > i would have been happy if it was 8 times longer
> > the tuning for me has enough tension for me at least to keep it
going
> > and from settling quickly.
>
> Speaking of which, the tuning is 17-edo....did anyone guess that?

Yep, but you spilled the beans too soon, since I didn't get on the
internet to reply until lunchtime. I listened to this last night and
figured that the abundance of neutral, large major, small minor
intervals (together with good 4ths & 5ths) made 17 the prime
suspect. I verified that this is the EDO (and not a WT) by playing
along with it on Scala's chromatic clavier, which turned out to be
lots of fun. (I had to adjust the pitch somewhat lower than my
C=264 default.)

> ...
> It's been said here before, but 17-edo, I have to agree, has nice
> narrow semitones--good for melodic lines.

This is a piece that I'll be listening to again and again, because
it's well written, full of surprises, and melodically very
beautiful. And, oh yes! There's one other very special reason:
since it has a 2-part texture, it struck me as a perfect example of
something I wrote about in January 2004:

<< When we listen to a diatonic composition with only two voice parts
(such as a Bach two-part keyboard invention), we are able to "hear"
harmonies that are there only in the sense that they are implied by
tonal relationships already familiar to both the composer and the
listener. A two-voice composition in some non-diatonic scale subset
of a non-12 tuning, on the other hand, would very likely not have the
same effect, but would be heard basically as a progression of
intervals -- unless the composer had first written other (successful)
pieces in that scale using full harmonies and the listener had also
become familiar with them. In other words, the diatonic system is
really a musical language, and our success in creating music in
alternative tunings may depend on our ability to create (or discover)
other musical languages that are capable of becoming meaningful to
the general listener. >>

This is quoted from:
/tuning/topicId_51743.html#52002

I would be very curious to learn, as time goes on and we've become
more familiar with a developing 17-tone "language", whether any of us
will be hearing *inferred* (or "phantom") harmonies in this piece,
since I don't expect that any were implied.

--George

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "George D. Secor" <gdsecor@...>
wrote:

(aaron)> > Speaking of which, the tuning is 17-edo....did anyone guess
that?
>

(george)> Yep, but you spilled the beans too soon, since I didn't get
> on the
> internet to reply until lunchtime. I listened to this last night and
> figured that the abundance of neutral, large major, small minor
> intervals (together with good 4ths & 5ths) made 17 the prime
> suspect. I verified that this is the EDO (and not a WT) by playing
> along with it on Scala's chromatic clavier, which turned out to be
> lots of fun. (I had to adjust the pitch somewhat lower than my
> C=264 default.)

so you're not using A440 OR C256, eh?

> > ...
> > It's been said here before, but 17-edo, I have to agree, has nice
> > narrow semitones--good for melodic lines.
>
> This is a piece that I'll be listening to again and again, because
> it's well written, full of surprises, and melodically very
> beautiful.

Thanks you...that means a lot to me!

> And, oh yes! There's one other very special reason:
> since it has a 2-part texture, it struck me as a perfect example of
> something I wrote about in January 2004:
>
> << When we listen to a diatonic composition with only two voice parts
> (such as a Bach two-part keyboard invention), we are able to "hear"
> harmonies that are there only in the sense that they are implied by
> tonal relationships already familiar to both the composer and the
> listener. A two-voice composition in some non-diatonic scale subset
> of a non-12 tuning, on the other hand, would very likely not have the
> same effect, but would be heard basically as a progression of
> intervals -- unless the composer had first written other (successful)
> pieces in that scale using full harmonies and the listener had also
> become familiar with them. In other words, the diatonic system is
> really a musical language, and our success in creating music in
> alternative tunings may depend on our ability to create (or discover)
> other musical languages that are capable of becoming meaningful to
> the general listener. >>
>
> This is quoted from:
> /tuning/topicId_51743.html#52002
>
> I would be very curious to learn, as time goes on and we've become
> more familiar with a developing 17-tone "language", whether any of us
> will be hearing *inferred* (or "phantom") harmonies in this piece,
> since I don't expect that any were implied.

This is very interesting. I can sort of imagine phantom harmonies now
that you mention it, but I'd have to really think about what they
might be, and I certainly wouldn't have thought of them had you not
mentioned the concept!

I wrote the piece with the concept of free chromaticism and
diatonicism on the horizontal, melodic level being mixed with a sense
of vertical consonance which would be dominated by 3/2, 4/3, 16/9, and
9/8. (i.e. 5ths, 4ths, minor 7ths and major 2nds). It's probably not
audible in a conscious sense, but the piece is a palindrome--maybe it
makes for some interesting unconscious sense of unity mixed with
surprise--resolutions have a way of being odd, yet working, when
reversed, becoming anti-resolutions! And for me, something abut 17
lends itself to this type of trick--maybe it's because you don't have
the typical usage of major thirds getting in the way?

Best,
Aaron.

🔗Margo Schulter <mschulter@...>

Dear Aaron,

Congratulations on the _Adagio_, a fine piece with which I am most
honored to be associated with, although it is above all a compliment
to your subtle musicianship and diverse veins of expression.

As you might guessed, I loved the counterpoint and sonorities,
including the quartal/quintal side of 17-EDO and also some moments
which really reminded me of some transporting performances of music
around the late 14th century.

At the same time, the piece belongs to the world of your many
compositions in different styles, another facet of your amazing
range and ability to combine improvisational intuition with unifying
formal structures. As I mentioned in an offline conversation, this
combination of qualities is one of the hallmarks of the classic
14th-century isorhythmic motet, for example: a beautiful and engaging
"surface" as well as deeper mysteries of construction.

I'm curious about the timbres -- any from the Early Patches
collection? Whatever, they set a fitting mood -- especially a line
which sounded rather like a harp. [Reading the most recent messages
answers this "yes" -- not so surprisingly, and a neat demonstration of how
these timbres can be used to create lots of beautiful music.]

Also, for you and George: while I'm not sure if 17-EDO as a tuning has any
established expectations for what I might called "inferred harmonies," it
does occur to me that certain styles might evoke such impressions whether
realized in 17-EDO or another system such as Pythagorean, for example.

Specifically, if a piece followed more or less "classic" 13th-14th century
European progressions in 17-EDO or your 17-WT, then consider a figure like
this, with "r" indicating a rest in a voice (nonproportional font
suggested):

G4 D4 E4 | F4
D4 r C4
G3 r F3

Here, although the lower voices pause, I find myself in recorded
performances hearing the E as part of a cadential sixth sonority expanding
to the octave, maybe G3-D4-E4 or G3-B3-E4. Conversely, experimenting in a
new temperament with a related cadence, I found that the melodic motion of
the highest voice from the fifth to the sixth helped to make the vertical
sixth sound more "impelled" to a resolution. In the one case a melodic
motion "implies" a familiar harmonic context of tension and resolution; in
the other, a traditional melodic gesture lends directed tension to a
vertical sonority which otherwise might not have such a directed quality.

However, the fascinating thing about your piece, Aaron, is that it could
evoke a 14th-century mood at times without necessarily defining the
progressions as a "classic" period style, which indeed would leave the
possible harmonic "inferences" more ambiguous, as you say, George.

Peace and love, with many thanks,

Margo

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

Thanks, Margo, for listening. I really think I would have never gone
this direction without your presence here on the list. I was shy about
17, having written only one piece ("Insect Ballet") until I saw your
passion in this direction, and the good work of others on the lists,
and Jacob's concert was really a cool thing to organize, too.

I also want to thank George (Secor) as well for sharing his expertise
in this area...someday, I'll tune up the 17-WT and try something
out...so much to do!

-Aaron.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Margo Schulter <mschulter@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Aaron,
>
> Congratulations on the _Adagio_, a fine piece with which I am most
> honored to be associated with, although it is above all a compliment
> to your subtle musicianship and diverse veins of expression.
>
> As you might guessed, I loved the counterpoint and sonorities,
> including the quartal/quintal side of 17-EDO and also some moments
> which really reminded me of some transporting performances of music
> around the late 14th century.
>
> At the same time, the piece belongs to the world of your many
> compositions in different styles, another facet of your amazing
> range and ability to combine improvisational intuition with unifying
> formal structures. As I mentioned in an offline conversation, this
> combination of qualities is one of the hallmarks of the classic
> 14th-century isorhythmic motet, for example: a beautiful and engaging
> "surface" as well as deeper mysteries of construction.
>
> I'm curious about the timbres -- any from the Early Patches
> collection? Whatever, they set a fitting mood -- especially a line
> which sounded rather like a harp. [Reading the most recent messages
> answers this "yes" -- not so surprisingly, and a neat demonstration
of how
> these timbres can be used to create lots of beautiful music.]
>
> Also, for you and George: while I'm not sure if 17-EDO as a tuning
has any
> established expectations for what I might called "inferred
harmonies," it
> does occur to me that certain styles might evoke such impressions
whether
> realized in 17-EDO or another system such as Pythagorean, for example.
>
> Specifically, if a piece followed more or less "classic" 13th-14th
century
> European progressions in 17-EDO or your 17-WT, then consider a
figure like
> this, with "r" indicating a rest in a voice (nonproportional font
> suggested):
>
> G4 D4 E4 | F4
> D4 r C4
> G3 r F3
>
> Here, although the lower voices pause, I find myself in recorded
> performances hearing the E as part of a cadential sixth sonority
expanding
> to the octave, maybe G3-D4-E4 or G3-B3-E4. Conversely, experimenting
in a
> new temperament with a related cadence, I found that the melodic
motion of
> the highest voice from the fifth to the sixth helped to make the
vertical
> sixth sound more "impelled" to a resolution. In the one case a melodic
> motion "implies" a familiar harmonic context of tension and
resolution; in
> the other, a traditional melodic gesture lends directed tension to a
> vertical sonority which otherwise might not have such a directed
quality.
>
> However, the fascinating thing about your piece, Aaron, is that it could
> evoke a 14th-century mood at times without necessarily defining the
> progressions as a "classic" period style, which indeed would leave the
> possible harmonic "inferences" more ambiguous, as you say, George.
>
> Peace and love, with many thanks,
>
> Margo
>