Re: [MMM] Open-source/free production tool for micro and macro-tonal consonance

Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote: Hi Michael,

>Thanks for the reply. I'm copying this to the main tuning list,
>where these more technical discussions are more appropriate (are
>you aware of it? /tuning ). If
>you like, just reply there.
Thanks, I'll reply in short here and in more depth a bit later today there.

>On demand I may also make an optional Windows version with a complete,
>simple graphical interface that will in a way document itself, would
>you (or anyone else) find that useful?

>I would, yes.
Cool, hopefully it will be out in a couple of months (I will likely start a VB front-end on it soon as I finish the foundation/(fast math/c++) side of it, or even at the same time if I get enough requests). :-)

> Far as I've learned it has many similarities but is not as
>complex. From what I understand Bill's work on tune, timber, and
>scale (huge oversimplification I know) involves re-tuning each
>instrument including overtones to a scale to minimize clashing
>overtones (or scale to instrument) that would bump up disonance
>between sounds so the new instrument matches the feel of the scale
>(with disonance only in places that make emotional sense).
> My interpretation simply fits existing overtones to a frequency
>schema that creates a minimum overall dissonance curve between all
>frequencies.

>Sethares is probably most famous for take a scale as given, then
>cooking timbres to minimize tonotopic dissonance for dyads in it
>(as I understand it), then composing music with the scale and
>timbres. (I don't know if it's any more or less complex than what
>you're doing but...) He reads this list from time to time and
>maybe he'll try your software and chime in.
Hopefully so.

>>My only concern is resynthesis errors -- or are you just pitch-
>>shifting bands of audio or something?
> It is a form of pitch-shifting only the most valid peak bands....

>Cool. Bill has done tunes with more local effects (like Three Ears)
>than I described above but none using this exact approach that I
>know of.
A while (maybe 3-4 months) ago I talked to him and showed him an early version and he'd done something similar with snapping to a 5tet (macrotonal) schema but not with microtonal or specialized schema and fitting methods (like what I'm aiming for) far as I know. If he wanted to I'm sure he'd have no problem adding tons of improvements.

> When electronic musicians of producers pan two different notes
>to the far left and far right and it sounds clearer they take
>advantage similar properties.

>So you move potentially beating peaks to different ears, yes?
>Let me just go back to this for a sec:
More or less, I'll elaborate in detail on the other list.

>The "basic" reason it works is it categorizes each instrument part's
>base harmonic and overtones

>Do you mean *fundamental* and overtones,
My bad, wrong terminology, when I said "base" I meant "fundamental"
>and if so, how do you know what's what for a polyphonic instrument like a piano?
I'll elaborate more later, but, basically, it assumes polyphonic bases relative to the schema rather then trying to guess/create a schema from the fundamentals (as WAV2MIDI type programs often do).

>and retunes the overtones

>...but not the fundamental?
Actually both, but the overtones, most often, get more tuned/shifted more than fundamentals as they are more out of tune.

>to match a fairly flexible structure based on tonotopic theory (as
>opposed to "auto-tuning", which forces base harmonics, and not
>overtones, to match an unflexible, often emotionally compromised scale).
>I guess I don't know how auto-tuning works -- They have to pitch
>shift everything, right (not just the fundamental), but then just
>apply a resonance at the formant peaks from the original??
I'll elaborate later: far as I know they shift every tone related to the instrument by constant and my code uses several independent dynamic "shifters".

BTW, if you or anyone else is using the version of the software available today and it sounds a bit dim (lacking harmonic brightness/curvature), I'm releasing a version in a few days (beta 0.87) which sounds much brighter, more like the strength/brightness 0.70 production mode (which is brighter than 0.80 and 0.85) but with less disonance.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>On demand I may also make an optional Windows version with a complete,
>>>simple graphical interface that will in a way document itself, would
>>>you (or anyone else) find that useful?
>>
>>I would, yes.
>
> Cool, hopefully it will be out in a couple of months (I will likely
>start a VB front-end on it soon as I finish the foundation/(fast
>math/c++) side of it, or even at the same time if I get enough requests). :-)

Sweet.

> I'll elaborate more later, but, basically, it assumes polyphonic
>bases relative to the schema rather then trying to guess/create a
>schema from the fundamentals (as WAV2MIDI type programs often do).

Interesting.

-Carl