Microtonal Madness album

In the spirit of Prent's podcasts, I'm considering putting together <
80 minutes of music, and then uploading and seeding a torrent for it.
The idea would be to put up some of the usual suspects on this group,
with descriptions of each track, and give it a name (eg, "Microtonal
Madness".)

The popular codecs for this sort of thing seem to be flac, ape, m4a
and mp3.

Thoughts and reactions?

Awesome! I would buy that if it were available in stores. Of course,
it would also be incentive to write something of publishable quality.
I'll get behind this in any way I can.

On 11/15/06, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> In the spirit of Prent's podcasts, I'm considering putting together <
> 80 minutes of music, and then uploading and seeding a torrent for it.
> The idea would be to put up some of the usual suspects on this group,
> with descriptions of each track, and give it a name (eg, "Microtonal
> Madness".)
>
> The popular codecs for this sort of thing seem to be flac, ape, m4a
> and mp3.
>
> Thoughts and reactions?

--TRISTAN
Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
<rozencrantz@...> wrote:
>
> Awesome! I would buy that if it were available in stores. Of course,
> it would also be incentive to write something of publishable quality.
> I'll get behind this in any way I can.

What would you regard as good stuff for such an album?

Since lossless formats would require a lot of work to organize and
would make for a larger album size, probably mp3 is the way to go.
Does anyone have another idea?

Great idea!

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> In the spirit of Prent's podcasts, I'm considering putting together <
> 80 minutes of music, and then uploading and seeding a torrent for it.
> The idea would be to put up some of the usual suspects on this group,
> with descriptions of each track, and give it a name (eg, "Microtonal
> Madness".)
> > The popular codecs for this sort of thing seem to be flac, ape, m4a
> and mp3. > > Thoughts and reactions?

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> In the spirit of Prent's podcasts, I'm considering putting together <
> 80 minutes of music....
>
> Thoughts and reactions?

Gene,

Sounds good to me.

Regards,

jlsmith

On 11/15/06, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Rozencrantz the Sane"
> <rozencrantz@...> wrote:
> >
> > Awesome! I would buy that if it were available in stores. Of course,
> > it would also be incentive to write something of publishable quality.
> > I'll get behind this in any way I can.
>
> What would you regard as good stuff for such an album?
>
> Since lossless formats would require a lot of work to organize and
> would make for a larger album size, probably mp3 is the way to go.
> Does anyone have another idea?

Though process follows. Result: I think it should either be compressed
or limited to 80 minutes, but not both.

When you talk about an 80 minute CD, that's 80 lossless minutes, When
you go down to mp3 you can fit far more onto the CD, hours. The
downside is that fewer stereos can handle them. If you're thinking of
a purely internet release, then the 80 minute limit is arbitrary but
compressing it makes more sense.

However: Because I like to make elaborate fantasies about this sort of
thing, I've already made plans to make copies and give them to all of
my friends. Then the 80 minute limit makes sense, and if you're going
to have an 80 minute limit you should go lossless.

--TRISTAN
Dreaming of Eden is a Comic with no Pictures
http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com

Hi Gene,

I would like to contribute. Sounds like a great idea!

Regards,

Robin Perry

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> In the spirit of Prent's podcasts, I'm considering putting
together <
> 80 minutes of music, and then uploading and seeding a torrent for
it.
> The idea would be to put up some of the usual suspects on this
group,
> with descriptions of each track, and give it a name
(eg, "Microtonal
> Madness".)
>
> The popular codecs for this sort of thing seem to be flac, ape, m4a
> and mp3.
>
> Thoughts and reactions?
>

On 15/11/06, Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> In the spirit of Prent's podcasts, I'm considering putting together <
> 80 minutes of music, and then uploading and seeding a torrent for it.

Awesome!

Torrents are great because you can package it with artwork, etc.

Why not limit it to 80 minutes, and encourage people to to burn a copy
for a friend?

People download dvd rips all the time, why not leave them as .wavs? I
don't know how popular flacs are. If you go mp3, do > 300 kbps

Of course it's your project, but I would recommend including the
latest stuff from Mohajeri and Dante, also something from the 17-tone
piano concert and something of Margo's :)

Best of luck,

Chris

> The idea would be to put up some of the usual suspects on this group,
> with descriptions of each track, and give it a name (eg, "Microtonal
> Madness".)
>
> The popular codecs for this sort of thing seem to be flac, ape, m4a
> and mp3.
>
> Thoughts and reactions?
>
> -- 'Race is so associated with class in the United States that it may not
be direct discrimination, but it ... doesn't mean it's any less
powerful just because it's indirect.'

- Dalton Conley

Jolly good idea Gene!

I would like to contribute if possible.
I can help out if you need the help.

Joel

--- Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:

> In the spirit of Prent's podcasts, I'm considering
> putting together <
> 80 minutes of music, and then uploading and seeding
> a torrent for it.
> The idea would be to put up some of the usual
> suspects on this group,
> with descriptions of each track, and give it a name
> (eg, "Microtonal
> Madness".)
>
> The popular codecs for this sort of thing seem to be
> flac, ape, m4a
> and mp3.
>
> Thoughts and reactions?
>
>
>

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--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Joel Hickman
<joelhickman_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Jolly good idea Gene!
>
> I would like to contribute if possible

Do you have links to microtonal music of yours classifiable as
"classical"?

> I can help out if you need the help.

If someone has experience uploading and seeing torrents it would be
interesting to hear about it.

Quoting Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...>:

> Do you have links to microtonal music of yours classifiable as
> "classical"?

Gene, were you only interested in "classical" style pieces for this Microtonal
Madness album? I'm not sure my music would classify as classical. I was also
thinking about also offering a possible contribution to be considered for it,
but I don't want you to have to weed through stuff (ie, non classical) you
already know you don't want.

It sounds like a cool idea. If it ever happens -- I'd get one!

Jay

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, jrinkel@... wrote:
>
> Quoting Gene Ward Smith <genewardsmith@...>:
>
> > Do you have links to microtonal music of yours classifiable as
> > "classical"?
>
> Gene, were you only interested in "classical" style pieces for this
Microtonal
> Madness album?

It might make sense to have two albums. However, I've been researching
this business recently, and torrent trackers seem to want a
subclassification on the classification "music", one of which is
"classical". In particular, Demonoid wants this. This is where the
Avant Guard Project has been putting some torrents which include
microtonal ones. So I would want things which could reasonably be
called "classical" in a single album.

I'm not sure my music would classify as classical. I was also
> thinking about also offering a possible contribution to be
considered for it,
> but I don't want you to have to weed through stuff (ie, non
classical) you
> already know you don't want.

Why don't you put your music up somewhere so that interested people
here can listen to it?

> It sounds like a cool idea. If it ever happens -- I'd get one!

It's easy, but you would need to download a torrent client, such as
BitTornado.

What about 79 min uncompressed (one CD) albums, one or more, in 3 formats:
Lossless - flac (50%, cca 400MB)
mp3 (or OGG) HiQ (cca 200MB)
mp3 (or OGG) LowQ (50-100MB)

Why ...lossless formats would require a lot of work to organize... ?

M

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--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, aum <aum@...> wrote:

> Why ...lossless formats would require a lot of work to organize... ?

Because I already have lossy codec music (mostly mp3) downloaded and
sitting on my disk. All I would need is to put it into a folder,
create a torrent for the folder with mutorrent, and upload the torrent
to a tracker (as you see, I've figured this out, from the Demonoid
site which explains this.) If I wanted to get a flac version, I would
somehow have to get flac versions of the music from everyone.

>> Why ...lossless formats would require a lot of work to organize... ?
>
>Because I already have lossy codec music (mostly mp3) downloaded and
>sitting on my disk. All I would need is to put it into a folder,
>create a torrent for the folder with mutorrent, and upload the torrent
>to a tracker (as you see, I've figured this out, from the Demonoid
>site which explains this.) If I wanted to get a flac version, I would
>somehow have to get flac versions of the music from everyone.

You can convert everyone's submissions into FLAC without loss of
quality (there would be a loss only relative to if they'd have
given you FLAC directly).

If everyone gives you a lossy format, this doesn't make sense. But
if even one person gives you FLAC, it can start to pay off. The
only problem then is conformity of the collection.

Doing MMM Day, I found that submitters used vastly different bitrates,
and it made it hard to make all the pieces sound equally good. So
you should specify a format/bitrate. And an average loudness. mp3
is ideal because you can use mp3gain to losslessly normalize a
collection of tracks to a uniform average loudness.

Some people complain about such "compression". To avoid such
complaints, simply tell them to specify an average loudness other
than the default and assure them you'll put their track to that
level.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:

> You can convert everyone's submissions into FLAC without loss of
> quality (there would be a loss only relative to if they'd have
> given you FLAC directly).

That would make them larger without making them better.

> If everyone gives you a lossy format, this doesn't make sense. But
> if even one person gives you FLAC, it can start to pay off. The
> only problem then is conformity of the collection.

Actually, ape seems to give even better compression than flac, and is
also free.

> Doing MMM Day, I found that submitters used vastly different bitrates,
> and it made it hard to make all the pieces sound equally good. So
> you should specify a format/bitrate.

That's assuming I can get the music at all. AJK signified approval.
What about Jacob, Prent, Mohajeri, Ozan, Margo, Joseph Pehrson, Paul
Erlich, and anyone else who has something appropriate? Can I use the
Darreg 19-tone piece that seems to be floating around in the public
domain, near as I can tell? Of course the real P2P ethos says don't
even ask permission, but I don't know that people want that around here.

> And an average loudness. mp3
> is ideal because you can use mp3gain to losslessly normalize a
> collection of tracks to a uniform average loudness.

An interesting point.

>> If everyone gives you a lossy format, this doesn't make sense. But
>> if even one person gives you FLAC, it can start to pay off. The
>> only problem then is conformity of the collection.
>
>Actually, ape seems to give even better compression than flac, and is
>also free.

Free as in beer, but they have this non-standard license
http://www.monkeysaudio.com/license.html

They also have worse decode time, no hardware support to date, and
it can't stream.

>> Doing MMM Day, I found that submitters used vastly different bitrates,
>> and it made it hard to make all the pieces sound equally good. So
>> you should specify a format/bitrate.
>
>That's assuming I can get the music at all. AJK signified approval.
>What about Jacob, Prent, Mohajeri, Ozan, Margo, Joseph Pehrson, Paul
>Erlich, and anyone else who has something appropriate? Can I use the
>Darreg 19-tone piece that seems to be floating around in the public
>domain, near as I can tell?

Kalle (and AKJ I think) have performances you can probably use.
The one from Detwelveulate... I guess you'd have to contact Jonathan
Glasier or whoever.

>Of course the real P2P ethos

Does it? I wouldn't presume to say that.

-Carl

>> You can convert everyone's submissions into FLAC without loss of
>> quality (there would be a loss only relative to if they'd have
>> given you FLAC directly).
>> Converting from lossy to lossless is VERY bad idea. I think everybody assumes lossless to be original, full, non-crippled version. Subsequent conversion from lossless to lossy might give poor results.

M

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