scala help

I'm also trying to figure out how to use scala
Does anyone know if I can use it to retune my Yamaha
CS6x?
I'm also thinking of getting a wind synth w/ VL-70m
tone generator -
scala compatible?
Thanks,
K

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Hi,

{you wrote...}
>I'm also trying to figure out how to use scala

It takes a while, even with the "help" files. No one has ever done a good tutorial. But Manuel, the author, usually responds well to emails.

>Does anyone know if I can use it to retune my Yamaha CS6x? I'm also thinking of getting a wind synth w/ VL-70m tone generator

I took a look at:
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/

...and it looks like some model numbers that are near to yours (like a CS1x) will allow for microtuning via sysex dump. Scala can prepare sysex files for transfer to your hardware. You should check the manufacturers MIDI spec for these exact models to make sure they still implement at least one global tuning change. Also note that the accuracy on Yamaha instruments isn't that great, usually only as fine as 1 cent, and they may not be 128-note tunings, but only 12-note per octave retunings. One problem you'll notice is if each note can only be tuned +/- 64 cents or so, which rules out large scales.

Cheers,
Jon

Thanks!
What would be the best hard synth out there for
microtonal tunings?
I'd like to be able to map pretty complex scales over
the entire range (maybe of 2 keyboards?), instead of
12 notes per octave and accuracy is pretty important -
or why write just music at all! someone said the
DX7II is pretty good, but I also heard it was a pain
to program...
Ideally I'd want something that could get a great
piano sound and original timbres - not necessarily
important that it sounds *like* any specific winds or
strings though (I'd rather have an actual violin than
a synth violin any day).
-Kevin

--- Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >I'm also trying to figure out how to use scala
>
> It takes a while, even with the "help" files. No one
> has ever done a good tutorial. But Manuel, the
> author, usually responds well to emails.
>
> >Does anyone know if I can use it to retune my
> Yamaha CS6x? I'm also thinking of getting a wind
> synth w/ VL-70m tone generator
>
> I took a look at:
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/
>
> ...and it looks like some model numbers that are
> near to yours (like a CS1x) will allow for
> microtuning via sysex dump. Scala can prepare sysex
> files for transfer to your hardware. You should
> check the manufacturers MIDI spec for these exact
> models to make sure they still implement at least
> one global tuning change. Also note that the
> accuracy on Yamaha instruments isn't that great,
> usually only as fine as 1 cent, and they may not be
> 128-note tunings, but only 12-note per octave
> retunings. One problem you'll notice is if each note
> can only be tuned +/- 64 cents or so, which rules
> out large scales.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>

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Yamaha CS6X has microtuning presets only. You cannot load or edit new ones
with Scala or any other tool.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Szanto
>
> >Does anyone know if I can use it to retune my Yamaha CS6x? I'm also
> thinking of getting a wind synth w/ VL-70m tone generator
>
> I took a look at:
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/
>
> ...and it looks like some model numbers that are near to yours (like a
> CS1x) will allow for microtuning via sysex dump. Scala can prepare sysex
> files for transfer to your hardware. You should check the manufacturers
> MIDI spec for these exact models to make sure they still implement at
> least one global tuning change. Also note that the accuracy on Yamaha
> instruments isn't that great, usually only as fine as 1 cent, and they may
> not be 128-note tunings, but only 12-note per octave retunings. One
> problem you'll notice is if each note can only be tuned +/- 64 cents or
> so, which rules out large scales.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>

Hi,
Vl-70m has a great sounds but tuning is octave-based - you can only retune 12 notes, same in all octaves. You can use my little program VLTune at http://www.noise.cz/artech/artechdownloads.html. The programming is harder and more unusual than FM (DX7, etc.).

DX7II can freely tune all notes, has original timbres and unusual (difficult) programming. Very poor piano sound. Maybe SY-77 or SY-99 would be better for you.

aum

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Kevin,

{you wrote...}
>What would be the best hard synth out there for microtonal tunings?

Boy, I couldn't really answer that. Leaning on pianos, maybe one of the Kurzweil keyboards. But the hardware people are seeming to support microtuning less these days, and it seems nuts to buy into dated hardware (with usually dated sounds). There are a lot of options available in soft instruments, and it would seem like investing in a good computer (laptop or other) and finding an instrument you like would be a better solution, even for live playing. But we're in a real grey-area period right now, tantalizingly close to stable, workable, musical instruments that can use any tuning we can throw at them.

Anyway, I hope some other people can weigh in on this, there are as many solutions (it seems) as we have people making microtonal music!

Cheers,
Jon

Hey John,

Good to see you are still around, and thanks for the updated info...

Cheers,
Jon

{you wrote...}
>Yamaha CS6X has microtuning presets only. You cannot load or edit new ones
>with Scala or any other tool.

kevin ryan wrote:
> Thanks!
> What would be the best hard synth out there for
> microtonal tunings?
> I'd like to be able to map pretty complex scales over
> the entire range (maybe of 2 keyboards?), instead of
> 12 notes per octave and accuracy is pretty important -
> or why write just music at all! someone said the
> DX7II is pretty good, but I also heard it was a pain
> to program... > Ideally I'd want something that could get a great
> piano sound and original timbres - not necessarily
> important that it sounds *like* any specific winds or
> strings though (I'd rather have an actual violin than
> a synth violin any day). > -Kevin

One thing the DX7II *doesn't* have is a good piano sound. It uses 6-operator FM synthesis with sine waves only, which is fine for "electric piano" sounds but not very realistic for acoustic pianos. There are plenty of timbres available for it (it comes with 64 built in and another 64 in a plug-in cartridge), but there are advantages and disadvantages to FM. (Technically I've heard it isn't actually FM but a closely related technique, phase modulation.) What FM does best is synthetic brass-like sounds, plucked strings (like a harpsichord), and inharmonic sounds; woodwinds and string ensemble-like sounds can be fairly decent, but the lack of filters makes it tricky to program certain kinds of timbres. It's also fairly easy with FM to recreate the sounds of typical synth waveforms like square and sawtooth waves.

Retuning using the control panel is a bit cumbersome (since every note of the MIDI range is retunable), but these days I don't bother since Scala can create MIDI files that can retune the DX7II with system exclusive messages. The nice thing is that the tuning resolution is 1024 steps per octave -- theoretically a 1.17 cent resolution, if the steps are all equal (I don't have good enough pitch discrimination to tell if there's any unevenness in the steps, but the fifths are pretty near to just as far as I can tell). 1024-ET is especially accurate for factors of 3 (and at least it's more accurate than 768-ET).

So it seems the best thing to do is get a great midi
controller and use soft synths? I'm bummed about the
Vl-70m not tuning globally - how accurate is the
retuning? If there were a way to switch tunings in
real time it still might work for what I'd need it
for.
I definitely want to get a wx5 wind synth - are there
any retunable soft synths that read and interpret
breath/tongueing data like the Vl's do?
Thanks to everyone who responded to my Q's!
-Kevin

--- aum <aum@...> wrote:

> Hi,
> Vl-70m has a great sounds but tuning is octave-based
> - you can only
> retune 12 notes, same in all octaves. You can use my
> little program
> VLTune at
> http://www.noise.cz/artech/artechdownloads.html. The
>
> programming is harder and more unusual than FM (DX7,
> etc.).
>
> DX7II can freely tune all notes, has original
> timbres and unusual
> (difficult) programming. Very poor piano sound.
> Maybe SY-77 or SY-99
> would be better for you.
>
> aum
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.1/421 -
> Release Date: 16/08/06
>
>

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> DX7II ..
> Retuning using the control panel is a bit cumbersome (since every note
of the MIDI range is retunable), but these days I don't bother since

Related topic... there is also a product called "MidiQuest". It's mainly a
patch-librarian & programming system for synths; it can also handle and
manipulate tunings for the old Yamaha FM synths.

Rick

VL-70m retuning is -64...+63 cents, accuracy 1 c. I do not know the way how quickly switch tunings, it seems impossible to me.
Bigger VL models probably have different (better) retuning capabilities. But the price...
aum

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> VL-70m retuning is -64...+63 cents,

As was mentioned before, keep in mind that this range prohibits scales
with many pitches in each octave. It would be all right for 12-tone
temperaments, for example, but not 24-edo.

-Chris Bryan

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