Re: MOSniks

> Bobnik writes:
>
> > The other implication of this for me is that MOS structures, in my
> > limited experience, have not been fulfilling in and of themselves.
> > However, they seem to set up a logic to where additional notes
> > should come from. I have mentioned this before in the context of
> > good non-MOS scales which are MOS-scales with the alteration placed
> > on the "wrong note".
>
> This is all very fascinating to me, and it is something that I have
> wished to ask Paul about, relating to his numerous comments
> about "Coherency" in pitch sets. Perhaps I should ask this on the
> mother list, but since I am currently working on a CD that uses all
> MOS scales, I will take the liberty of asking them here.
>

Hi Jacky,

Dan Stearns, Paul and Kraig will probably have some better answers
either cause they've made more music or have a better grasp on
the math, but I'll chime in with what little I can.

> First I would like to say that there are certain criteria that I look
> for in a MOS scale that seems to make it infinitely more musically
> useful to the current work I'm doing. I already have all of the
> scales designed from this project, and all of them meet this set of
> criteria.
>
> On another note, I have found that many times a 3 step size scale
> (isn't this what Dan Stearn's has dubbed "Trivalency"?) can be the
> answer to having these "missing notes" especially as far as melody is
> concerned.

One of the things I was alluding to in a few posts (on a few lists)
relates to this. When I say "apply the alteration to the wrong note"
what I am saying in shorthand is the following.

We have some diatonic scale with a bunch of L's and s's.

The '#' is L-s and the 'b' is s-L. If the scale is MOS and you apply
it at the right point, it transposes (rotates the order of L and s).

However, if it is not MOS, or you don't apply the alteration to the
right point, good things may happen nonetheless. Really obvious
examples are the melodic minor and harmonic minor, neither of which
are MOS, but can be produced by a single alteration of the parent
MOS. [When I speak of scales I use that as a shorthand to include
all rotations, so I'm not slighting any of the modes of the three
scales alluded to].

Harmonic Minor is also a 3 step size scale, which is one of the
things that happens when you start applying alterations to the
wrong note.

This gets into a "religious" sort of thing. If you never use
a note in a scale, is it still there?

For instance, 1 2 b3 #4 5 6 b7 is the fourth mode of harmonic
minor (all alterations are in West-speak, related to a mythical
major scale... ignore tuning for a second (hey, stop hitting)).

Someone might say, "oh, thats the diminished scale
[1 2 b3 4 #4 5 6 b7] and you never played the fourth degree". In
this case, its back to being diatonic.

This happened with the way I looked at one of your three interval
scales on one of these lists. Since the third interval L was
equal to M+s, I just rewrote it as an "imaginary parent diatonic".

Of course, if that doesn't happen (and we can easily come up with
cases which don't), then my ability to relate it to MY
understanding of MOSness falls apart. (This is true if we
start adding tuning to the equation and mode above does not
have [in log domain] b3-1 == #4-b3) (Now will you stop hitting?).

I'm looking forward to the answers to your specific questions.

Bob Valentine

I moved this discussion to the main tuning list.

I moved this discussion to the main tuning list.