another microtonal softsynth, the best softsynth I ever heard

Hey all,

I just thought I would mention one of the best-sounding softsynths I ever
tried, available for Linux and VST, is ZynAddSubFx.

http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/

It reads .scl files, and does keymapping, etc. And it's *free* software!

I've been using it for a couple of weeks when I can, and I'm bowled over by
its feature set and sound--It has a remarkable sound--using additive
synthesis, and you can draw your own wavetables with a mouse to use them as a
partial instead of sine, as well as use some other complex math functions
(Gaussian curves, etc.)

It also implements a neat idea: bandwidth filtered noise as partials. The
sound is remarkably warm, due to the inherent instability, it has that
lifelike characteristic we love in acoustic sounds.

It's a loaded app for sure, and I don't think I would need any other
traditional type synth at this point. It rivals and *surpasses* any
commercial softsynth you could throw at me, in terms of sound and features.
Including Zta3+ and friends....

My Linux-based software studio from now on (take note, ye doubters Jon and
Carl):
ZynAddSubFx
RTSynth (for that great physicall modelling plucked string sound)
Aeolus (the *fantastic* pipe organ physical model)
Fluidsynth/Timidity/Soundfonts
CSound (for really complicated things and FM synthesis)
Jack/Jackrack
Rosegarden
Audacity
and when I want VST--fst-1.7

This is an impressive bundle of great software that equals any viable
commercial option, and it's *free software*

-Aaron.

>My Linux-based software studio from now on (take note, ye doubters Jon and
>Carl):
> ZynAddSubFx

Have you tried Cameleon?

> RTSynth (for that great physicall modelling plucked string sound)

Howabout String Studio?

> Fluidsynth/Timidity/Soundfonts

Kontakt?

> CSound (for really complicated things and FM synthesis)

Max/MSP?

> Jack/Jackrack

Brainspawn Forte?

> Rosegarden

Sonar?

> Audacity

Adobe Audition?

-Carl

> > CSound (for really complicated things and FM synthesis)
>
> Max/MSP?

FYI, I'm not going to touch the OS vs. commercial debate with a
10-foot pole (personally I've been linux-only for about 2 years), but
Max/MSP and csound are not in the same universe. Csound is a
text-based language for rendering scores with user-build synthesizers,
whereas Max is a graphical program with a focus on complex control
structures. The original version (Max without MSP) wasn't even
capable of producing audio! The conceptual paradigms are completely
different.

The OS equivalent of Max/MSP is PD (Pure-Data). Both were designed by
the same person (Miller Puckette), the former has better
documentation, and the latter has some very interesting experimental
features.

-chris

>> > CSound (for really complicated things and FM synthesis)
>>
>> Max/MSP?
>
>FYI, I'm not going to touch the OS vs. commercial debate with a
>10-foot pole (personally I've been linux-only for about 2 years),
>but Max/MSP and csound are not in the same universe.
>The conceptual paradigms are completely different.

But more-or-less anything that can be done in CSound can be done
in Max/MSP.

>The OS equivalent of Max/MSP is PD (Pure-Data). Both were designed by
>the same person (Miller Puckette), the former has better
>documentation,

And better libraries, like Jitter.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Krister Johnson
<aaron@...> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I just thought I would mention one of the best-sounding softsynths I
ever
> tried, available for Linux and VST, is ZynAddSubFx.
>
> http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/
>
> It reads .scl files, and does keymapping, etc. And it's *free* software!

It's got a bug in that if you use it to write atheistic music a
lightening bolt might shoot down froma clear blue sky and fry you.
Also, the description of how to use it in Windows sounds to me like
saying "don't use it in Windows".

On Tuesday 23 May 2006 5:10 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
> >My Linux-based software studio from now on (take note, ye doubters Jon and
> >Carl):
> > ZynAddSubFx
>
> Have you tried Cameleon?

No. Does it load .scl files? Have you tried ZynAddSubFx?

> > RTSynth (for that great physicall modelling plucked string sound)
>
> Howabout String Studio?

No. Not neccessary. RTSynth is great. Have you tried RTSynth?

>
> > Fluidsynth/Timidity/Soundfonts
>
> Kontakt?

Yes....it's great, and it runs on Linux problem-free as a VST plugin. If I get
some $$$ together, I'd buy the entry-level Vienna library, which sounds to my
ears better than Synful, although that's still impressive, considering it's
size. But the Brass in Vienna is simply unbeatable. Synful's brass sounds,
well, synthesized.

>
> > CSound (for really complicated things and FM synthesis)
>
> Max/MSP?

Apples and Oranges...PD is what one would run on Linux. Although there is
JMax. But Java based apps aren't my cup of tea. And PD is ugly. If things get
past a certain complexity, I'd rather conceptualize it as a text file anyway.
Just my taste.

There are plenty of opcodes only available in CSound, too. Like the
chaos-based synthesis, and definately, scanned synthesis is CSound-only.

> > Jack/Jackrack
>
> Brainspawn Forte?

Why would I use that? That's not a Linux app.

>
> > Rosegarden
>
> Sonar?

ditto.

> > Audacity
>
> Adobe Audition?

No. Audacity rocks. And Ardour is even more stellar, standing on a par with
Pro-Tools anyday. I rarely need that kind of power myself, but it's there if
I do.

O.k. I'll bite.....what's your point?

Mine was that there are plenty of killer non-commerical and commercial (mostly
as VST plugins) apps for Linux that are ready for professional audio work.
Only one not familiar with these apps could claim the contrary.

Not to mention that Linux low-latency is *more mature* and lower than anything
Windows to date could do. It even surpasses BeOS in some cases, and BeOS was
fine tuned the be *the* multimedia OS.

It seems that you and Jon have said some pretty nonsensical things about Linux
as an audio platform in the past, so this list was designed to put the idea
that one needs Windoze (a.k.a. crash box) or Apple to rest. Not only that,
Linux installs/configs these days are quite fast painless, and include live
CDrom distros for the truly conservative Linux-curious.

-Aaron.

Another quick note: 99% of a great synth is its programmer. In that sense,
good music can come from any platform.

Still, I have yet to hear the organic fluid quality of ZynAddSubFx come from
any other comparabe softsynth. Plenty of people who use it in Windows agree.

Try it, Carl!

-Aaron.

On Tuesday 23 May 2006 5:10 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:
> >My Linux-based software studio from now on (take note, ye doubters Jon and
> >Carl):
> > ZynAddSubFx
>
> Have you tried Cameleon?
>
> > RTSynth (for that great physicall modelling plucked string sound)
>
> Howabout String Studio?
>
> > Fluidsynth/Timidity/Soundfonts
>
> Kontakt?
>
> > CSound (for really complicated things and FM synthesis)
>
> Max/MSP?
>
> > Jack/Jackrack
>
> Brainspawn Forte?
>
> > Rosegarden
>
> Sonar?
>
> > Audacity
>
> Adobe Audition?
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

>> > ZynAddSubFx
>>
>> Have you tried Cameleon?
>
>No. Does it load .scl files?

My understanding is that it accepts .tun files.

>Have you tried ZynAddSubFx?

Yes.

>> > RTSynth (for that great physicall modelling plucked string sound)
>>
>> Howabout String Studio?
>
>No. Not neccessary.

How do you know if you haven't tried it?

>RTSynth is great. Have you tried RTSynth?

No.

>> > Fluidsynth/Timidity/Soundfonts
>>
>> Kontakt?
>
>Yes....it's great, and it runs on Linux problem-free as a VST plugin. If I get
>some $$$ together, I'd buy the entry-level Vienna library, which sounds to my
>ears better than Synful, although that's still impressive, considering it's
>size. But the Brass in Vienna is simply unbeatable. Synful's brass sounds,
>well, synthesized.

Agree. Though I think the work you save to get Vienna's strings to
sound as good as Synful's is worth considering.

>> > Audacity
>>
>> Adobe Audition?
>
>No. Audacity rocks.

I'm very familiar with both programs, and I can assure you Audition
blows Audacity out of the water, not only from a features point of
view, but also from an resampling-algorithm-quality point-of-view,
a spectrogram-display point-of-view, a 'get around your waveform
view quickly' point-of-view, and several other points of view.

>And Ardour is even more stellar, standing on a par with
>Pro-Tools anyday.

I haven't tried Ardour, but Pro Tools sucks the puck.

>Not to mention that Linux low-latency is *more mature* and lower than
>anything Windows to date could do.

Latency in Windows can be reduced to practically zero ms with the
right setup, so I'm not sure what this means.

-Carl

> There are plenty of opcodes only available in CSound, too. Like the > chaos-based synthesis, and definately, scanned synthesis is CSound-only.

there is a vst plugin thats in beta at the moment that does scanned synthesis.

http://www.humanoidsounds.co.uk/

the site mentions that scanned synthesis is available in max but i dont know if thats true.

unfortunately the plugin doesnt have direct .scl / .tun support, but anyway now you know it exists :)

hopefully soon there will be more free vst plugins that support .tun files as not long ago I created a basic implementation of .tun support for synthmaker

http://www.synthmaker.com

There's quite a nice Karplus Strong synth created in synthmaker that i patched to add .tun support. If anyone is interested i'll post a link to the .dll (I just need to rebuild the vst with the latest version of synthmaker..)
I also aim to create a module for .scl file support sometime soon.

anyway, this is my first post here..i've been lurking for a while feeling slightly intimidated by the sheer learning curve i face in understanding microtuning, but im picking up some interesting ideas and information. :)

On Tuesday 23 May 2006 8:23 pm, Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Krister Johnson
>
> <aaron@...> wrote:
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I just thought I would mention one of the best-sounding softsynths I
>
> ever
>
> > tried, available for Linux and VST, is ZynAddSubFx.
> >
> > http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > It reads .scl files, and does keymapping, etc. And it's *free* software!
>
> It's got a bug in that if you use it to write atheistic music a
> lightening bolt might shoot down froma clear blue sky and fry you.

LOL!!! (yes, it is a bit Jesus-freaky--but the guy *can* code DSP like a
mutha-fooka)!

Looks like I'm going to have to watch for lightening bolts...

> Also, the description of how to use it in Windows sounds to me like
> saying "don't use it in Windows".

hmmm...hadn't noticed...I luckily don't have those worries! ;)

-A.

On Tuesday 23 May 2006 9:31 pm, Carl Lumma wrote:

> >Yes....it's great, and it runs on Linux problem-free as a VST plugin. If I
> > get some $$$ together, I'd buy the entry-level Vienna library, which
> > sounds to my ears better than Synful, although that's still impressive,
> > considering it's size. But the Brass in Vienna is simply unbeatable.
> > Synful's brass sounds, well, synthesized.
>
> Agree. Though I think the work you save to get Vienna's strings to
> sound as good as Synful's is worth considering.

Yeah, maybe...

>
> >> > Audacity
> >>
> >> Adobe Audition?
> >
> >No. Audacity rocks.
>
> I'm very familiar with both programs, and I can assure you Audition
> blows Audacity out of the water, not only from a features point of
> view, but also from an resampling-algorithm-quality point-of-view,
> a spectrogram-display point-of-view, a 'get around your waveform
> view quickly' point-of-view, and several other points of view.

I'll have to have a look-see. Have you used snd? Its interface is god-awful,
but it hides a lot of power.

> >And Ardour is even more stellar, standing on a par with
> >Pro-Tools anyday.
>
> I haven't tried Ardour, but Pro Tools sucks the puck.

How? (not that I care, just curious--I know loads of people that swear by it,
at least on Mac)

> >Not to mention that Linux low-latency is *more mature* and lower than
> >anything Windows to date could do.
>
> Latency in Windows can be reduced to practically zero ms with the
> right setup, so I'm not sure what this means.

It means that Linux low-latency is better in comparisons.

I suppose 'the right setup' is key in every case and every OS, too.

I just know my wife's god-awful XP system is completely slow, and she has a
faster processor and the same memory that I do. It *crawls*. I can't possibly
imagine it running any real-time soft-synth *at all* well....

-Aaron.

>> >No. Audacity rocks.
>>
>> I'm very familiar with both programs, and I can assure you Audition
>> blows Audacity out of the water, not only from a features point of
>> view, but also from an resampling-algorithm-quality point-of-view,
>> a spectrogram-display point-of-view, a 'get around your waveform
>> view quickly' point-of-view, and several other points of view.
>
>I'll have to have a look-see. Have you used snd? Its interface is god-awful,
>but it hides a lot of power.

I haven't. But I have done a lot of work with Sound Forge, also.

>> >And Ardour is even more stellar, standing on a par with
>> >Pro-Tools anyday.
>>
>> I haven't tried Ardour, but Pro Tools sucks the puck.
>
>How? (not that I care, just curious--I know loads of people that
>swear by it, at least on Mac)

It's sort of a de facto standard, simply because it was first.
It's way lame though, with a proprietary plugin API, and rip-off
audio hardware that basically serves as a security dongle these
days (back in the day, off-board DSPs were needed for performance).

>> >Not to mention that Linux low-latency is *more mature* and lower than
>> >anything Windows to date could do.
>>
>> Latency in Windows can be reduced to practically zero ms with the
>> right setup, so I'm not sure what this means.
>
>It means that Linux low-latency is better in comparisons.
>
>I suppose 'the right setup' is key in every case and every OS, too.

Yeah.

-Carl

I wonder what distro you're using, I've had good luck with Planet
CCRMA, but it doesn't support my new 64 bit machine, I've got Suse
10.1, but all the binary audio apps that come with it are basically
broken, like Zyn won't run, etc....

Lack of 64-bit support in CCRMA surprises me. That sucks. You might
also check out agnula, which is a debian-based project along the same
lines. A quick google turned up:

"An alpha version of the 64 Studio distribution is already available
for download, and while it is far from complete, test reports indicate
that it provides a stable JACK audio server environment for running
applications such as Ardour and Jamin."

I can't get a date to see how old that information is, but it sounds promising.

Also, you can try compiling some packages on your own from the source
code. If that's beyond you at the moment, send me an e-mail OL and
I'll point you in the right direction.

-chris

On 5/24/06, Brian Redfern <brianwredfern@...> wrote:
> I wonder what distro you're using, I've had good luck with Planet
> CCRMA, but it doesn't support my new 64 bit machine, I've got Suse
> 10.1, but all the binary audio apps that come with it are basically
> broken, like Zyn won't run, etc....

On Thursday 25 May 2006 8:08 am, c.m.bryan wrote:
> Lack of 64-bit support in CCRMA surprises me. That sucks. You might
> also check out agnula, which is a debian-based project along the same
> lines. A quick google turned up:

I think the reason for this is that most people still run 32-bit systems.

Give it time, it will catch up.

-Aaron.